Black Hereford

[elkwc]

I am content with my cows. They just happen to be called Simmentals. But what I see are animals of the species Bos taurus. You guys who live in this Bovine Breed Fairy land, IMO cannot see the forest. All you see are the trees.

Open your eyes. Cattle are wonderful creatures but unless you are Hindu, the breed they belong to is not sacred.

You have shown your true colors by trying to belittle others with your remarks just because their opinions don't agree with yours.

 

[elkwc]

There's a reason why many breeds need an upgrade. However personally I think the breeds should had kept their traditional colors instead of the black hide. But let's face it, nobody wants giant cattle with extreme traits or being so high maintenance animals.

I agree with this.

 

[WalnutCrest]

Interesting...a thread full of breed originalists.

Next thing you know, they'll be all excited about breeds that don't have EPDs and use real world, actual results...instead of spreadsheet-generated theoretical results.

 

[ohiosteve]

This thread has reinforced my opinion that every breed has been mongrelized.

 

[elkwc]

Interesting...a thread full of breed originalists.

Next thing you know, they'll be all excited about breeds that don't have EPDs and use real world, actual results...instead of spreadsheet-generated theoretical results.

Agree

 

[elkwc]

This thread has reinforced my opinion that every breed has been mongrelized.

Most if not all have. Some more than others. There are some lines in some breeds that haven't been tampered with as much if any. But getting harder to find those.

 

[Bright Raven]

I am content with my cows. They just happen to be called Simmentals. But what I see are animals of the species Bos taurus. You guys who live in this Bovine Breed Fairy land, IMO cannot see the forest. All you see are the trees.

Open your eyes. Cattle are wonderful creatures but unless you are Hindu, the breed they belong to is not sacred.

You have shown your true colors by trying to belittle others with your remarks just because their opinions don't agree with yours.

If you feel belittled by my comments above, I am only going to say, WOW!!!!

 

[Bright Raven]

This thread has reinforced my opinion that every breed has been mongrelized.

Mongrelized? Steve that is a strong word.

I will be careful in responding, there are users on here who are ultrasensitive.

Depending on how you define it or the words you want to use, you could appropriately say that all breeds are "mongrelized". Every breed of cattle goes back to the same source. That source is located in time and place. The time was when mankind began domesticating wild cattle.

From that time forward, each breed has evolved based on the selection of desirable traits and the culling of undesirable traits. NO ONE GETS TO CALL A STOP TO WHEN THAT PROCESS IS FINISHED.

Our good friend elkwc and others, covet the idea that they have been endowed with that role. That role being that they get to say when no further changes can be made to a breed. So they become arrogant and get on cattle today and whine about it.

 

[True Grit Farms]

Interesting...a thread full of breed originalists.

Next thing you know, they'll be all excited about breeds that don't have EPDs and use real world, actual results...instead of spreadsheet-generated theoretical results.

Nope I'm not talking a step back, EPD's are just another tool in the box. And genomic testing is also very important in the selection process for breeding stock. The more information you have as a buyer or seller the more likely you are to make the right decisions for your program.

 

[Bright Raven]

Interesting...a thread full of breed originalists.

Next thing you know, they'll be all excited about breeds that don't have EPDs and use real world, actual results...instead of spreadsheet-generated theoretical results.

Nope I'm not talking a step back, EPD's are just another tool in the box. And genomic testing is also very important in the selection process for breeding stock. The more information you have as a buyer or seller the more likely you are to make the right decisions for your program.

Grit. That is such common knowledge, you should not have to get on here and say it.

It grieves me that such bright guys as Darren would hurt me with such nonsense.
:lol: :lol:

 

[Bright Raven]

SERIOUSLY

If users or guests cannot read through this thread without being offended, you should do a self-assessment.

But if you have your feelings hurt, I have the perfect youtube video that may make you feel better.


https://youtu.be/CFh5FzXIeBg

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Interesting...a thread full of breed originalists.

Next thing you know, they'll be all excited about breeds that don't have EPDs and use real world, actual results...instead of spreadsheet-generated theoretical results.

Agree

Me too, I shun all technological advances, heck I still use a flip phone and dial up Internet.

 

[WalnutCrest]

Interesting...a thread full of breed originalists.

Next thing you know, they'll be all excited about breeds that don't have EPDs and use real world, actual results...instead of spreadsheet-generated theoretical results.

Nope I'm not talking a step back, EPD's are just another tool in the box. And genomic testing is also very important in the selection process for breeding stock. The more information you have as a buyer or seller the more likely you are to make the right decisions for your program.

Grit. That is such common knowledge, you should not have to get on here and say it.

It grieves me that such bright guys as Darren would hurt me with such nonsense.
:lol: :lol:

1 - EPDs and genomic testing are great tools. I spend substantial money each year on DNA tests and I use that information to make keep / cull decisions ... only after I've sufficiently done actual, live-animal, real world testing as well.

2 - Not every EPD is particularly accurate. But that doesn't stop people from overly relying on them to make final decisions.

3 - Since it was in KC, I went to the Angus Association conference two years in a row (2014 and 2015, iirc) to listen to the panels and speakers, and to check out the vendors. I was amazed at the number of people the Angus Association trotted out there who said, "The only thing I ever look at when buying a bull is the genomic tests; I don't even look at a picture; don't need to as all that other stuff is a waste of time." These speakers are among the leaders of the breed, the big time operations, telling the small timers that visually assessing the live animal is a waste of their time ... that the only thing that's important about the pedigree is that it's stamped by the Angus Association ... that the only important piece of information that matters about the animal is the genomic data. Udder quality? Feet? Fleshing ability? Temperament? Environmental adaptability? Parasite resistance? Hardiness? Fertility? Etc? None of that matters. And these are the among the leaders of the breed! No thank you. I am a reasonably smart person, and I'm saying that king has no clothes.

 

[Bright Raven]

Interesting...a thread full of breed originalists.

Next thing you know, they'll be all excited about breeds that don't have EPDs and use real world, actual results...instead of spreadsheet-generated theoretical results.

Agree

Me too, I shun all technological advances, heck I still use a flip phone and dial up Internet.

I am so proud of you dad.

 

[Bright Raven]

Nope I'm not talking a step back, EPD's are just another tool in the box. And genomic testing is also very important in the selection process for breeding stock. The more information you have as a buyer or seller the more likely you are to make the right decisions for your program.

Grit. That is such common knowledge, you should not have to get on here and say it.

It grieves me that such bright guys as Darren would hurt me with such nonsense.
:lol: :lol:

1 - EPDs and genomic testing are great tools. I spend substantial money each year on DNA tests and I use that information to make keep / cull decisions ... only after I've sufficiently done actual, live-animal, real world testing as well.

2 - Not every EPD is particularly accurate. But that doesn't stop people from overly relying on them to make final decisions.

3 - Since it was in KC, I went to the Angus Association conference two years in a row (2014 and 2015, iirc) to listen to the panels and speakers, and to check out the vendors. I was amazed at the number of people the Angus Association trotted out there who said, "The only thing I ever look at when buying a bull is the genomic tests; I don't even look at a picture; don't need to as all that other stuff is a waste of time." These speakers are among the leaders of the breed, the big time operations, telling the small timers that visually assessing the live animal is a waste of their time ... that the only thing that's important about the pedigree is that it's stamped by the Angus Association ... that the only important piece of information that matters about the animal is the genomic data. Udder quality? Feet? Fleshing ability? Temperament? Environmental adaptability? Parasite resistance? Hardiness? Fertility? Etc? None of that matters. And these are the among the leaders of the breed! No thank you. I am a reasonably smart person, and I'm saying that king has no clothes.

Ok. Good. Your previous post did not convey your position. Welcome back to Progressive Ranching!

 

[Bright Raven]

WalnutCrest this excerpt from your post is ASTOUNDING.

If you had not provided this in quotes, it would be hard to believe.

I was amazed at the number of people the Angus Association trotted out there who said, "The only thing I ever look at when buying a bull is the genomic tests; I don't even look at a picture; don't need to as all that other stuff is a waste of time." These speakers are among the leaders of the breed, the big time operations, telling the small timers that visually assessing the live animal is a waste of their time ... that the only thing that's important about the pedigree is that it's stamped by the Angus Association ... that the only important piece of information that matters about the animal is the genomic data..."

 

[Bright Raven]

Bright Raven...I think the use of mongrelized is accurate in that regardless what breed pimps, associations say, the only reason for black herefords, simm angus, black charolais, etc. is because of BS market conditions that say that black hides on cattle means superior meat quality. These breeds did not cross with Angus to improve anything other than change coat color. Heck, who even knows what is in the wood pile of Angus genetics?...and that would most definitely mean a mongrel animal. Same thing with designer dogs...oops my poodle got out and bred by the neighbors lab...let me label the dog a labradoodle and pretend it is a better breed...all for money. Now, I love your cattle, firesweeps, etc. I don't mean this as an attack...just how I see it...thanks for allowing my contribution.

Tim

No problem. I don't take this personal and really don't see how people do.

My point is not about black Herefords or Black coats. My point is that Breeds are not fixed or locked in time. Good and bad changes are not prevented by some imaginary law.

Personally, I don't worship any breed. They are all cattle.

 

[Bright Raven]

Bright Raven...I think the use of mongrelized is accurate in that regardless what breed pimps, associations say, the only reason for black herefords, simm angus, black charolais, etc. is because of BS market conditions that say that black hides on cattle means superior meat quality. These breeds did not cross with Angus to improve anything other than change coat color. Heck, who even knows what is in the wood pile of Angus genetics?...and that would most definitely mean a mongrel animal. Same thing with designer dogs...oops my poodle got out and bred by the neighbors lab...let me label the dog a labradoodle and pretend it is a better breed...all for money. Now, I love your cattle, firesweeps, etc. I don't mean this as an attack...just how I see it...thanks for allowing my contribution.

Tim

Tim.

The frustration over black coat leaves me wondering. You hear the lament that it was done for only marketing reasons. My thought is - so What? That is a legitimate purpose.

This lamenting over coat color tells me the following:

The ones who are moaning the most must have been economically hurt because their color does not compete as well or they are simply envious or jealous of the success many of the black cattle like Angus and Simmental enjoy.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Simmental are red and white not black.
Angus is black and red as well cept the black boys wouldnt the red boys play.
You can spout all you want about better cattle is bs it's about black hide only.
If it weren't all Angus would be considered equal.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

So we can agree Angus is superior. Case closed thanks for participating.