Black Hereford

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Like the old saying goes if you want an Angus bull in your pasture drop him off three pastures away.

Says the man with the Angus bull in his backyard.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Some of folks must not get out and go to any bull test sales. The one's I attend mostly are independently owned and operated.
From what I see Angus bulls win the carcass ultrasound 99.9% of the time. The more technology that's used in the cattle business the better Angus and Angus crossed cows look to the feed yards.
Folks can raise whatever they want, myself I'll raise what I can sell for a premium, from the sale barn to the special - elite sales black is where it's at. I know what sells the best and I don't have to make excuses for hide color. Selling what the market wants equals more money in my pocket. And that means more to me than bragging about what kind of cattle I raise, and how high they can jump.

Don't confuse these guys with a lot of facts Grit, they can't handle the truth.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Like the old saying goes if you want an Angus bull in your pasture drop him off three pastures away.

Says the man with the Angus bull in his backyard.

That is the reason 16K volts surrounds this place

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Like the old saying goes if you want an Angus bull in your pasture drop him off three pastures away.

Says the man with the Angus bull in his backyard.

That is the reason 16K volts surrounds this place

We carried 6, 2 year old Angus bulls, a 5 year old Hereford, and 5 yearling Angus bulls all fall and winter without a hot wire in sight and didn't have a single bull attempt to break out. What do you do to torment your bulls to the point they want to flee?

 

[Caustic Burno]

No Obama just likes to fight with Joe Biden the neighbors Char.

 

[Bright Raven]

Says the man with the Angus bull in his backyard.

That is the reason 16K volts surrounds this place

We carried 6, 2 year old Angus bulls, a 5 year old Hereford, and 5 yearling Angus bulls all fall and winter without a hot wire in sight and didn't have a single bull attempt to break out. What do you do to torment your bulls to the point they want to flee?

He has him in with a bunch of ugly Brimmer girls. What do you expect?

 

[Caustic Burno]

That is the reason 16K volts surrounds this place

We carried 6, 2 year old Angus bulls, a 5 year old Hereford, and 5 yearling Angus bulls all fall and winter without a hot wire in sight and didn't have a single bull attempt to break out. What do you do to torment your bulls to the point they want to flee?

He has him in with a bunch of ugly Brimmer girls. What do you expect?

What your little brain can't comprehend that is what he is trying to get to.
Brimmers on both sides and in the middle.

 

[Bright Raven]

We carried 6, 2 year old Angus bulls, a 5 year old Hereford, and 5 yearling Angus bulls all fall and winter without a hot wire in sight and didn't have a single bull attempt to break out. What do you do to torment your bulls to the point they want to flee?

He has him in with a bunch of ugly Brimmer girls. What do you expect?

What your little brain can't comprehend that is what he is trying to get to.
Brimmers on both sides and in the middle.

CB, one of the reasons TT 's bulls don't get out is because they would have to be mountain climbers to get off that mountain. Then they would have to swim the Ohio River.
:lol:

 

[Muddy]

Never had a black Angus bull gotten out of a single strand of hot wire fence

 

[elkwc]

XXXXX

 

[elkwc]

Bright Raven...I think the use of mongrelized is accurate in that regardless what breed pimps, associations say, the only reason for black herefords, simm angus, black charolais, etc. is because of BS market conditions that say that black hides on cattle means superior meat quality. These breeds did not cross with Angus to improve anything other than change coat color. Heck, who even knows what is in the wood pile of Angus genetics?...and that would most definitely mean a mongrel animal. Same thing with designer dogs...oops my poodle got out and bred by the neighbors lab...let me label the dog a labradoodle and pretend it is a better breed...all for money. Now, I love your cattle, firesweeps, etc. I don't mean this as an attack...just how I see it...thanks for allowing my contribution.

Tim

No problem. I don't take this personal and really don't see how people do.

My point is not about black Herefords or Black coats. My point is that Breeds are not fixed or locked in time. Good and bad changes are not prevented by some imaginary law.

Personally, I don't worship any breed. They are all cattle.

Myself or any of the other posters I've seen have never said breeds are fixed in time that was your statement. Maybe reader comprehension isn't your strong suit. What I have said is when you bring in an outside breed to improve qualities in a breed then that breed is no longer what it was and becomes a mix of the breed or breeds brought in. Nothing wrong with improving a herd that way as long as a breed and breeder are open about it. And in my personal opinion I don't consider the new composite the same as the original. In many cases both have something to offer. It just depends on what a breeder needs in their herd. I know of a reputation Hereford breeder in the late 80's that felt he needed to add some Simmental to his herd. He stopped all registration and hasn't added anything but Hereford since the early 90's but to this day he calls his cattle Hereford influenced. That is basically how I see the black breeds. They maybe Simmental influenced but they aren't Simmentals in my view. Again I respect yours and everyone elses views and opinions. Just because mine is different doesn't make one of us wrong and the other right.

 

[Bright Raven]

elkwc stated:

And in my personal opinion I don't consider the new composite the same as the original. In many cases both have something to offer. It just depends on what a breeder needs in their herd. I know of a reputation Hereford breeder in the late 80's that felt he needed to add some Simmental to his herd. He stopped all registration and hasn't added anything but Hereford since the early 90's but to this day he calls his cattle Hereford influenced. That is basically how I see the black breeds. They maybe Simmental influenced but they aren't Simmentals in my view.

Every breed is a "composite" of the individuals that populate the breeds ancestorage extending in time to the original wild cattle that mankind domesticated. What strikes me in the never ending lamenting about this breed or that breed is that they all share in a generic sense the same ancestral history.

What stands in the balance is a group on one hand that make a judgement based on degree of "purity" about this breed or that. When in fact every breed has its "bulls" hiding in the wood pile. To what degree is any breed "pure"? You don't know. I don't know. That is what I meant by saying those on that hand live in a Bovine Fairy Land.

All we can honestly say is that every breed is a composite if that is the road you wish to travel.

In the end, all that matters, is what animals populate the Breed Association registry.

The frequent whining about the black breeds just seems childish.

 

[Supa Dexta]

I can only imagine how disappointed someone is going to be when they get all excited they searched out a 15 page thread on black herefords only to read this thread.

 

[jscunn]

by Bright Raven » Wed May 10, 2017 8:36 pm

Muddy wrote:
There's a reason why many breeds need an upgrade. However personally I think the breeds should had kept their traditional colors instead of the black hide. But let's face it, nobody wants giant cattle with extreme traits or being so high maintenance animals.


Muddy. Breeders introduced Angus genetics into Simmentals to mitigate the frame score, calving issues, and carcass traits. Coat color just went along for the ride.

So Bright Raven if the only reason(s) the Simmental breeders used Angus to mitigate frame score, BW and improve carcass Traits why didnt they use RED Angus. Come on dont try and sell that to this board. They used black Angus to piggy back on CAB and the premium black feeder cattle get in most of the country. The one big mistake the AAA made was not requiring Angus genetics for CAB all those years ago.

 

[Bright Raven]

by Bright Raven » Wed May 10, 2017 8:36 pm

Muddy wrote:
There's a reason why many breeds need an upgrade. However personally I think the breeds should had kept their traditional colors instead of the black hide. But let's face it, nobody wants giant cattle with extreme traits or being so high maintenance animals.


Muddy. Breeders introduced Angus genetics into Simmentals to mitigate the frame score, calving issues, and carcass traits. Coat color just went along for the ride.

So Bright Raven if the only reason(s) the Simmental breeders used Angus to mitigate frame score, BW and improve carcass Traits why didnt they use RED Angus. Come on dont try and sell that to this board. They used black Angus to piggy back on CAB and the premium black feeder cattle get in most of the country. The one big mistake the AAA made was not requiring Angus genetics for CAB all those years ago.

Yes. I agree with that. The popularity of black Angus would be an added bonus. The breed characteristics that they wanted to mitigate was the huge frame and calving ease. Adding the color was a delight.

 

[Bright Raven]

jscunn stated:

The one big mistake the AAA made was not requiring Angus genetics for CAB all those years ago.

Dead wrong on that. Why limit who you can sell your trademark to? They sell the trademark to customers in the meat packing industry. Why limit them to only Angus beef?

 

[jscunn]

Easy because CAB was created by the AAA (ie angus breeders) to sell more Angus bulls, not sell more black bulls. CAB has outgrown its prime directive, employed by people that might not even have met the men like Fred Johnson who gave birth to CAB for all intents and purposes.

 

[jscunn]

BTW if the AAA and CAB had been done right in the first place we wouldnt be talking about black Simmentals,Black Herefords, Gelbviehs, Limmys, or even Black Charolais.

 

[Bright Raven]

Easy because CAB was created by the AAA (ie angus breeders) to sell more Angus bulls, not sell more black bulls. CAB has outgrown its prime directive, employed by people that might not even have met the men like Fred Johnson who gave birth to CAB for all intents and purposes.

I called them this week. Wooster, Ohio. Their mission now is MAKIN MONEY. They sell the three CAB trademarks registered to them by the USPTO to customers in the Meat Packing Industry. Has nothing to do with selling bulls.

 

[jscunn]

Correct Bright Raven they have lost focus. If your herd manager lost his focus on your cowherd, started using aggressive bulls with bad feet and poor structure, he or she would be looking for a new place of employment right?
You are right they dont care about selling Angus bulls. That is why none of those people should be employed by CAB. The BOD of directors dont care either, heck they have guys talking about using only genomics to select bulls.. Idiots.. Genomics is just a tool in the box,not the only tool thou.