I help with a 300 cow herd in Central Alabama. We are a terminal herd, all calves are stockered on ryegrass through the spring. We buy-in sale barn replacement cows each fall, bred to our March 1 calving season. These cows are bred to unknown bulls, but the main herd is bred Charolais. The herd is smaller cows, 950-1000 lb. We hope to express the genetics of the Charolais sires by grazing through spring. Quality Charolais bulls are reasonably priced in our area. My thought is to phase in quality black Simmental bulls over time. This would give black hided calves with, hopefully, the same growth potential of the Charolais sired calves we currently see. The Simmentals will be pricier in our area, but if we phase them over time, we might be able to mitigate the price differential. Any experience with straight bred black Simmental?
Black Simmental
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Did you say your 300 cows are Charolais? Or they are something else just bred to Charolais? What kind of cows are they, if not Chart?
Yeah, you'd be money ahead to go with homo for polled and black Simm. Or, given your location, Brangus or Ultrablack. You need about 10, I guess, with 300 cows that you want to calve in March? Watched a reg Simm sale today online with 60 bulls, all born in Feb 23, to 11 months old. Adjusted yww were 1300 lbs to 1500 lbs. The black pb Simms sold from $3k to a couple at $9k and one at $10k. They sold six 5/8 x 3/8 SimmAngus, all were homo polled and homo black. $10k, two at $11k, a $12.5k, a $13k.and one at $15k. The pb Simms did not have whether they were homo for black or polled on their info, but dunno if that made for the lower prices. They had 3-4 red SImms, and 3-4 rwf Simms that brought $5k+, though. If you have 300 calves weaning at 500lbs, they gonna bring you 20-30 cents a pound more than the Char-x's will. That's $100-$150 more per calf. $3k to $4.5k more for the year. That will pay for one of the black bulls. The Gibbs ranch in Alabama raises Simm and SimmAng bulls, and are highly thought of-as breeders. @simme on here is in SC and sold 2 of the best bulls I have seen all year to a couple of CT members, One was black Simm and one SimmAngus. @coachg got a bull from Angus breeder @gizmom down in the panhandle, and is calving right now. He is getting some exceptional calves by this bull. How close are you to Dothan?
Charbrangus
Well-known member
Sewell Farms in Chipley Florida has good Simmental/Simangus bulls. I bought a 3/4 Sim 1/4 bull to put over my Brangus/Char cows.
Lucky_P
Well-known member
Second vote for Gibbs Simmental - and, they're in east-central AL, probably not terribly far from you.
There have been a number of Gibbs bulls in AI service that I wanted to use, but never got around to.
There have been a number of Gibbs bulls in AI service that I wanted to use, but never got around to.
simme
Old Dumb Guy
Gibbs annual sale has been in November with yearling bulls. But this year they are adding a spring sale with bulls 18 months old. March 2nd this year with 50 bulls and 75 bred heifers.
As many bulls as you will need, I'd go ahead and order at least one from @Jeanne - Simme Valley . They are calving right now, and she steers all male calves at birth unless she has an order for a bull.
Right age at the right time.
Thanks for the responses. I know where the bulls are. What I want to know is whether black Simmental TERMINAL bulls can compete with Charolais TERMINAL bulls for frame, growth and muscling in my 15 month old yearlings coming off ryegrass. I know that there is a price differential for same quality animals, due to quantity of bulls available for each breed. We are trying to upgrade very plain, cheap sale-barn cows with growthy, quality bulls, without stepping on the seed-stock guys toes. Love to hear your experiences.
kenny thomas
Well-known member
I use Black Simmental bulls but have used Charolais a lot in the past. Im not sure on common cows that my Simmental bulls produce as big of weaning weights as the Charolais of the past.
kenny thomas
Well-known member
Im using 1 thats 3/4 Angus, 1 half angus half Simmental, and 1 full Simmental. Have another full Simmental thats not been used yet.
kenny thomas
Well-known member
Its hard for me to find the really good Charolais bulls near here. Simmental bulls have gotten popular and pretty easy to get. I still like taller bulls and it has became harder to get those in any of the breeds.
kenny thomas
Well-known member
I still like the growth of the Charolais. I sometimes feel the extra growth more than makes up for them not being black.
Yes. Compete and exceed. But, I think there will be more differences in the bulls within a breed, than in Simm vs Char. You can go to the AI sites, and see Char and Simm bulls with the same EPDs for ww and yw. Where do you sell these 300 fifteen month old heifers and steers? Local sale or do you have a private treaty deal? How long is your calving window? How old are these calve when you put them on ryegrass pasture?
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Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
I'm a Simmental breeder in Upstate NY. As mentioned, there are about as much difference WITHIN the two breeds as there is between the two of them. I think the current modern Charolais are closer to the modern Simmentals in size and performance. I am not familiar with the current Charolais breeding to know if they have improved the marbling in their offspring - but, that might not be an issue with you unless you are finishing some out.
I still think you will have an easier time finding a growthy Simmental that is easy calving.
I still think you will have an easier time finding a growthy Simmental that is easy calving.
Thanks for the responses. Kenny, we are using the Charolais now because of their terminal possibilities. I can see not getting a growth differential up to weaning, your selling point. As you said, enough extra pounds will beat that black hide premium! Jeanne, agree with you you 100% on within/between breeds. Both breeds have moderated over the years. We are looking for some "old school " bulls with more frame, growth and muscling than what we may see commonly. All calves are terminal, going to feedlot buyers. No heifers retained, no heifers bred. All mature cows. Only EPDs relevant are reasonable BW and high YW in a 6-7 frame bull. Warren, calves go to grass after weaning/pre-conditioning starting December 1. Get to grass when available, usually around January 15. Calving season runs around 150 days, getting better each year. We sell private treaty to an order buyer. You are right about bulls in each breed being comparable, but there are probably 100 to 1 Charolais to straight Simmental available in my area. Hard to find the right Simmental to compare to Charolais, big price differential. I welcome your comments.
