Black Hereford

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Hoser

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Hello everyone, I have read this site for a few years and decided I should make an account. I am 22 years old and I run a herd of 32 Black Angus cattle that I bought from my old man. I look forward to conversing with you guys.

Now I have a few questions about Black Hereford cattle. I know people made fun of them when they first became a registered breed but I am wondering if they have gained any respect in the last decade. They don't appear to have made it to Canada yet but I've seen some pretty nice pictures. I think they are snazzy to look at but I am wondering what you guys think of them. Would it be worth my time and money to get embryos and straws shipped up to me? I don't know about your guyses areas but in Northern Alberta black hides still sell, especially black baldies, and I think there might be a market for this breed. Also, does anyone know if one is able to breed their own Black Herefords with registered BA cattle and registered Hereford bulls?
 

Rafter S

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If you want black baldies then get a good Hereford bull to use on your Angus cows, and make you some. I wouldn't advise chasing after "Black Herefords". For one thing, you may get solid black calves from them. I have some friends that bought one a few years ago to use on black Brangus cows. About half the calves didn't have a speck of white on them.
 

Muddy

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You're better off with using red Herefords on Black Angus. Some people complained about black Herefords throws solid calves with no white and many black Herefords are red carriers. If you're putting black Herefords on red Herefords you're getting calves with too much Hereford looks which could be a bad thing if the sale barn buyers didn't want feeders with strong Hereford influence.
 

brandonm_13

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I think they are a waste of money and a fad. The market for them isn't large and the commercial guys will treat them like a Hereford x Holstein cross and dock you. If you've got 32 black angus cows, I would much rather buy a horned Hereford bull and get some hybrid vigor out of the black baldy calves.
 

WalnutCrest

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Along this line, there are several good (or better) breeds you could use in your Angus cows in a two way or three way cross (use fullbloods of those breeds to maximize heterosis). Black herefords aren't one of those options.
 

TennesseeTuxedo

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Hoser":28iw5a33 said:
Hello everyone, I have read this site for a few years and decided I should make an account. I am 22 years old and I run a herd of 32 Black Angus cattle that I bought from my old man. I look forward to conversing with you guys.

Now I have a few questions about Black Hereford cattle. I know people made fun of them when they first became a registered breed but I am wondering if they have gained any respect in the last decade. They don't appear to have made it to Canada yet but I've seen some pretty nice pictures. I think they are snazzy to look at but I am wondering what you guys think of them. Would it be worth my time and money to get embryos and straws shipped up to me? I don't know about your guyses areas but in Northern Alberta black hides still sell, especially black baldies, and I think there might be a market for this breed. Also, does anyone know if one is able to breed their own Black Herefords with registered BA cattle and registered Hereford bulls?

You've got the top of the line cows now so don't muck that up. I'd run a traditional Hereford bull or an Angus bull myself.
 

DLD

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Do you have a market that will pay you a premium for calves specifically with Black Hereford genetics? If so, then it's probably worthwhile to give it a try as long as it doesn't cost more than it pays. If not, then go get yourself a good Hereford or Simmi/Angus bull. You'll be glad you did.

Sad to say, but the Black Hereford Association, in it's current state, is little more than a pyramid scheme - you may not have to pay part of your income back up the line, but it's similar in that you have to buy your stock from the small group already there, and then you have to find a new group to market to. If they allowed you an opportunity to breed up from registered Hereford and registered Angus genetics of your own choosing, it might have a chance to go somewhere, but as long as they will only register cattle that both parents come from their very small established genetic base, I just don't see a lot of future there. If you just want black baldies, you can raise better ones cheaper without the Black Hereford Association. Just my opinion, but it comes from a little research and from watching a couple of friends and neighbors trying them - neither of them stayed with them very long.
 

WalnutCrest

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That there is some good posting (except I'd probably hold off on the sim/angus because you already have angus cows and you'd be giving up heterosis).

With sick with straight bred Angus ... or really cross them (and then come back to a sim angus, balancer or lim flex bull ... if you don't want to go back to a straight angus bull).
 

cowgirl8

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Why is turning Herefords black different than what has happened to sims? Being that we were mostly sims in the 80s and 90s, there was a purpose the sims gave that todays don't. Yeah yeah, calving problems were bad but dang i miss those weaning weights........But why are they not red and white now? They are basically angus now.
 

Muddy

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Because there is nothing wrong with F1 black baldies from a black Angus and a red Hereford (or a brangus and a red Hereford).

Fleckvieh sims do have some nice big calves at weaning time but no one wants to have a herd of giant milk machines that eat tons or running a Fleckvieh bull that throws 120lbs calves. Not mentioned that they will throws rattail calves on occasion if they were bred to a black bull.
 

brandonm_13

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I'm personally against any breed turning "black" to suit some fad, not just Herefords, but in the case of Herefords it really seems oxymoronic since a baldy has a different look to it than a black Hereford. It isn't desirable commercially as is and doesn't give you any hybrid vigor. Very easy to get a bunch of cheap Herefords and put any bull over them to get baldies. Black baldies may bring the highest premium, but I've done good with red baldies, and the Charolais x Herefords also bring decent money.
 

TennesseeTuxedo

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brandonm_13":1cpxmdrm said:
I'm personally against any breed turning "black" to suit some fad, not just Herefords, but in the case of Herefords it really seems oxymoronic since a baldy has a different look to it than a black Hereford. It isn't desirable commercially as is and doesn't give you any hybrid vigor. Very easy to get a bunch of cheap Herefords and put any bull over them to get baldies. Black baldies may bring the highest premium, but I've done good with red baldies, and the Charolais x Herefords also bring decent money.

Our baldy calves do very well.
 

Ky hills

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TennesseeTuxedo":u9ztf540 said:
brandonm_13":u9ztf540 said:
I'm personally against any breed turning "black" to suit some fad, not just Herefords, but in the case of Herefords it really seems oxymoronic since a baldy has a different look to it than a black Hereford. It isn't desirable commercially as is and doesn't give you any hybrid vigor. Very easy to get a bunch of cheap Herefords and put any bull over them to get baldies. Black baldies may bring the highest premium, but I've done good with red baldies, and the Charolais x Herefords also bring decent money.

Our baldy calves do very well.

Same here, our baldy steers do well, and the heifers do well as replacements.
 

Muddy

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Ky hills":3smr0b69 said:
TennesseeTuxedo":3smr0b69 said:
brandonm_13":3smr0b69 said:
I'm personally against any breed turning "black" to suit some fad, not just Herefords, but in the case of Herefords it really seems oxymoronic since a baldy has a different look to it than a black Hereford. It isn't desirable commercially as is and doesn't give you any hybrid vigor. Very easy to get a bunch of cheap Herefords and put any bull over them to get baldies. Black baldies may bring the highest premium, but I've done good with red baldies, and the Charolais x Herefords also bring decent money.

Our baldy calves do very well.

Same here, our baldy steers do well, and the heifers do well as replacements.
Everyone loves F1 baldies. They are always topping the sales at any sale barns and you don't even have to using Black Hereford genetics.
 

Son of Butch

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Muddy":zrfyn7rc said:
Ky hills":zrfyn7rc said:
TennesseeTuxedo":zrfyn7rc said:
Our baldy calves do very well.

Same here, our baldy steers do well, and the heifers do well as replacements.
Everyone loves F1 baldies.
They are always topping the sales at any sale barns and you don't even have to using Black Hereford genetics.
Yep and I'd bet on a higher success rate using proven Hereford genetics rather than black herefords.
 

cbcr

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cowgirl8":amxuh0kc said:
Why is turning Herefords black different than what has happened to sims? Being that we were mostly sims in the 80s and 90s, there was a purpose the sims gave that todays don't. Yeah yeah, calving problems were bad but dang i miss those weaning weights........But why are they not red and white now? They are basically angus now.

All of the Continental breeds have gone black. By them all adding in the Angus genetics, the amount of hybrid vigor is not there. There's more hybrid vigor in crossing an Angus with a Hereford, Charolais, Red Poll, or maybe even a Shorthorn.

Fleckvieh sims do have some nice big calves at weaning time but no one wants to have a herd of giant milk machines that eat tons or running a Fleckvieh bull that throws 120lbs calves. Not mentioned that they will throws rattail calves on occasion if they were bred to a black bull.

There is a difference in the Fleckvieh. While they are a dual purpose breed, there are lines of Fleckvieh that focus more toward the beef side. The Fleckvieh that we register with the Composite Dairy Cattle Registry are focused on diary production.

As for the Black Hereford or any other breed that tries to build from a small group of animals or a certain group of breeders, the breed has very little chance of growing. If their is a specific breeding program that outlines how the animals are to be bred for grading up to a purebred, then that opens more opportunities for more growth of a breed and a larger gene pool to select from.
 

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