Black Hereford

[Muddy]

So if you cross a black Hereford to a Brahman, what would you call it? A Super black baldy or a F1 tigerstripe?

 

[Caustic Burno]

So if you cross a black Hereford to a Brahman, what would you call it? A Super black baldy or a F1 tigerstripe?

I would call it crap.
Super Baldie is Hereford over Brangus here.
The only Queen of the South is
the certified F-1 Hereford Brahman cross.

 

[RanchMan90]

So if you cross a black Hereford to a Brahman, what would you call it? A Super black baldy or a F1 tigerstripe?

I would call it crap.
Super Baldie is Hereford over Brangus here.
The only Queen of the South is
the certified F-1 Hereford Brahman cross.

Have you seen the cross before (BH × bra)? Even commercial tiger heifers out of short old time polled Herefords sold well.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Actually I have wasn't impressed at all with the hatchet a$$ baldie bulls (Black Hereford) guy down the road bought.
They didn't stay long.

 

[RanchMan90]

Actually I have wasn't impressed at all with the hatchet a$$ baldie bulls (Black Hereford) guy down the road bought.
They didn't stay long.

Females no bueno even with a decent bull?

 

[Caustic Burno]

No bueno period.
The Black Hereford brings nothing to the table IMO.
I want pounds that comes with hybred vigor maximized in the 3 way cross.
I have nothing against standardized composites.
You will never get the pounds or quality out of that bull over Braford cattle as using an Angus or Char

 

[RanchMan90]

No bueno period.
The Black Hereford brings nothing to the table IMO.
I want pounds that comes with hybred vigor maximized in the 3 way cross.
I have nothing against standardized composites.
You will never get the pounds or quality out of that bull over Braford cattle as using an Angus or Char

Good to know. I would much rather learn from someone else's experience than my own dollars.

 

[Caustic Burno]

No bueno period.
The Black Hereford brings nothing to the table IMO.
I want pounds that comes with hybred vigor maximized in the 3 way cross.
I have nothing against standardized composites.
You will never get the pounds or quality out of that bull over Braford cattle as using an Angus or Char

Good to know. I would much rather learn from someone else's experience than my own dollars.

Well I sure paid the stupid tax on occasion over coming up on 50 years.
I ran my first girls on 900 acres of salt grass with a cattlemen I worked for on the side.
One calf a year was my lease along with being laborer .
We had no idea what an EPD was
along with what was a vaccine other than penicillin after she got down.
We didn't hay them in the winter they had to hustle a living.
Worked them twice a year took a good horse and dogs to pen them.
Cut the calves wormed them that was a real rodeo.
If you had to pull a calf snubbed the old cow up to a tree.
Thought that was the life .
Today if they won't come to a bucket I don't want one.
What a journey

 

[elkwc]

Actually I have wasn't impressed at all with the hatchet a$$ baldie bulls (Black Hereford) guy down the road bought.
They didn't stay long.

I agree with that remark when referring to the old original Black Herefords. They had no rear end just like many polled Herefords. But I've seen some recently now that they are alowing them to breed them up that are as good as most polled Herefords you can find. At this time I'm not inclined to buy one but my interest is picking up and if the right one would pop up I might. The same can be said about a polled bull. If I can find one with enogh frame, enough muscle and a good scrotal size I will likely own one if he can be bought for commercial prices.

 

[Son of Butch]

The Black Hereford brings nothing to the table IMO.
I want pounds that comes with hybrid vigor maximized in the 3 way cross.

How 'bout that we completely agree on that one... who'd have thunk.

 

[elkwc]

The Black Hereford brings nothing to the table IMO.
I want pounds that comes with hybrid vigor maximized in the 3 way cross.

How 'bout that we completely agree on that one... who'd have thunk.

So you think the other so called "black breeds" bring something to the table. They give up hybrid vigor just the same. We have tried the Balancers and I've talked to those using "blacks" of other breeds and all are saying the desired hybrid vigor isn't there. A true black baldies gives you that. But I do feel some of the better Black Herefords available now are on the same level as most of the other "black" breeds.

 

[True Grit Farms]

The Black Hereford brings nothing to the table IMO.
I want pounds that comes with hybrid vigor maximized in the 3 way cross.

How 'bout that we completely agree on that one... who'd have thunk.

So you think the other so called "black breeds" bring something to the table. They give up hybrid vigor just the same. We have tried the Balancers and I've talked to those using "blacks" of other breeds and all are saying the desired hybrid vigor isn't there. A true black baldies gives you that. But I do feel some of the better Black Herefords available now are on the same level as most of the other "black" breeds.

Using any crossbred bull on crossbred cows is a crap shoot. Like it or not black Herefords, Brangus, Beefmaster, SimAngus and all the others that have been crossed aren't made for hybrid vigor. And to make matters worse those that were made to be black are at the bottom of the wood pile. Common cattle sense tells me that breeding for color is about the last trait that really matters when it comes to making a good calf.

 

[WalnutCrest]

The Black Hereford brings nothing to the table IMO.
I want pounds that comes with hybrid vigor maximized in the 3 way cross.

How 'bout that we completely agree on that one... who'd have thunk.

So you think the other so called "black breeds" bring something to the table. They give up hybrid vigor just the same. We have tried the Balancers and I've talked to those using "blacks" of other breeds and all are saying the desired hybrid vigor isn't there. A true black baldies gives you that. But I do feel some of the better Black Herefords available now are on the same level as most of the other "black" breeds.

Bright Raven ... in light of our previous comments on this, I'd be interested in your thoughts on the bolded portion.

 

[Rafter S]

So if you cross a black Hereford to a Brahman, what would you call it? A Super black baldy or a F1 tigerstripe?

I would call it crap.
Super Baldie is Hereford over Brangus here.
The only Queen of the South is
the certified F-1 Hereford Brahman cross.

CB,

I know that a Hereford bull on Brangus cows is the typical method for getting super baldies, but do you know anything about how the reverse works? I have a Brangus bull that I really like, and have a few Hereford heifers I'm thinking about turning out with him for their second or third calf.

 

[Tbrake]

Buy a high power black gelbvieh bull and be done with it. You will think me later. I have tried many different combinations over the past 5 years, and the balancer calves out do any of them. Last year I aied one heard to a angus bull with yw of 136. Cleaned up with a powerful gelbvieh. His calves were born on average 20 days later and still weaned 10-25 lbs heavier. If you can find one with decent maternal numbers the heifers are top notch. I used to run several Hereford bulls, but after talking to several big feeder calf guys I did away with them

 

[Bright Raven]

How 'bout that we completely agree on that one... who'd have thunk.

So you think the other so called "black breeds" bring something to the table. They give up hybrid vigor just the same. We have tried the Balancers and I've talked to those using "blacks" of other breeds and all are saying the desired hybrid vigor isn't there. A true black baldies gives you that. But I do feel some of the better Black Herefords available now are on the same level as most of the other "black" breeds.

Bright Raven ... in light of our previous comments on this, I'd be interested in your thoughts on the bolded portion.

I have concerns about what many are calling heterosis. On a genetic basis, heterosis is more applicable to genetic pools that have been isolated over long (even geologic) periods. When a population is isolated genetic diversity diminishes. Think of heterosis as the opposite of inbreeding. For example, if two populations of the same species are isolated by a physical barrier like water (lake), the two populations will lose diversity and the genes become stagnant. If after a million years, the lake disappears, and the two populations become reunited, their is a strong force in the gene pool caused by heterosis.

IMO, I have wondered if it is possible to have strong heterotic forces in cattle TODAY. Most of the breeds have the same source and there has been no real isolation. Add to that the influence of the creation of new breeds by crossing. I wonder if we have just about exhausted any significant heterotic forces.

 

[Caustic Burno]

The Black Hereford brings nothing to the table IMO.
I want pounds that comes with hybrid vigor maximized in the 3 way cross.

How 'bout that we completely agree on that one... who'd have thunk.

So you think the other so called "black breeds" bring something to the table. They give up hybrid vigor just the same. We have tried the Balancers and I've talked to those using "blacks" of other breeds and all are saying the desired hybrid vigor isn't there. A true black baldies gives you that. But I do feel some of the better Black Herefords available now are on the same level as most of the other "black" breeds.

The only composite I have seen work as well is a Brangus Hereford cross.
It's the Brahman in the Brangus as the Hereford x Brahman is the most pop in a F-1. They just happen to be the most diverse.

Rafter it does not seem to matter from what I have seen.
Most around here use a Hereford cow and a Brangus bull.
The reason are the commercial Hereford cow is cheaper.

 

[WalnutCrest]

<snip>

The only composite I have seen work as well is a Brangus Hereford cross.
It's the Brahman in the Brangus as the Hereford x Brahman is the most pop in a F-1. They just happen to be the most diverse.

<snip>

I'd be interested in watching a true F1 Aubrac x. Grey Brahman work down south ... so much so that I'd contribute the semen to anyone with a few pedigreed (and nice) Grey Brahman breeder has any interest in a small experiment.

 

[Caustic Burno]

<snip>

The only composite I have seen work as well is a Brangus Hereford cross.
It's the Brahman in the Brangus as the Hereford x Brahman is the most pop in a F-1. They just happen to be the most diverse.

<snip>

I'd be interested in watching a true F1 Aubrac x. Grey Brahman work down south ... so much so that I'd contribute the semen to anyone with a few pedigreed (and nice) Grey Brahman breeder has any interest in a small experiment.

I know a small pedigree operation I will ask him next time I see him.
Run into at the feed store every couple months or so.

 

[DLD]

Do you have a market that will pay you a premium for calves specifically with Black Hereford genetics? If so, then it's probably worthwhile to give it a try as long as it doesn't cost more than it pays. If not, then go get yourself a good Hereford or Simmi/Angus bull. You'll be glad you did.

Sad to say, but the Black Hereford Association, in it's current state, is little more than a pyramid scheme - you may not have to pay part of your income back up the line, but it's similar in that you have to buy your stock from the small group already there, and then you have to find a new group to market to. If they allowed you an opportunity to breed up from registered Hereford and registered Angus genetics of your own choosing, it might have a chance to go somewhere, but as long as they will only register cattle that both parents come from their very small established genetic base, I just don't see a lot of future there. If you just want black baldies, you can raise better ones cheaper without the Black Hereford Association. Just my opinion, but it comes from a little research and from watching a couple of friends and neighbors trying them - neither of them stayed with them very long.

Both Black Hereford associations now allow breeding up the way I understand it. The original association is not under the sole control of the family now from what I'm told. I know of several registered Black Herefords that have been bred up and new blood added. I've seen some that have really been improved. There is a herd in Utah that seems to be working on improving them. Know Iron Lake Herefords have been working on it from what I've been told.

Thanks elkwc. I stand corrected - it has been awhile since I looked into the registered Black Hereford thing, and obviously things have changed. I need to look at it again - maybe there's hope for it yet. I guess I'm getting get old - some of the things that seem like I did yesterday must have been day before...