Cow Size

[Stocker Steve]

I'm working at getting the cows smaller. Not real sure how to do it? I save the best doing heifers as replacements and they just seem to get big. So how do you go about getting 11-12 hundred pound cows these days. I'm sure not going to sell out and start over. :help:

Use a smaller bull.
Don't keep the biggest heifers, or sell them to someone with too much hay.

 

[Stocker Steve]

We use pelvic size (generally) as a selection criteria. Some of our smallest in stature heifers have the largest pelvic measurements. We have a size window that seems to work for us, 155-181 as yearlings. Bigger or smaller and they get on the truck and I won;t buy a heifer that has been measured that is outside of that window.

What harm would there be in keeping a moderate heifer with a bigger pelvic opening than your window?

Or is it just to avoid extremes?

Too often those extreme pelvic sized turn into extreme cow sizes. Our vet is fairly experienced with all of the repro kind of stuff, wroked at MARC in the repro part and KSU, he's the one that recommended those sizes and it's stood us in good stead. Now if there was a really stubby little heifer with a 183 I might be tempted, just never seen one.[/quote]
What percentage of you heifers hit this size window?
What units are you measuring with?
Do you see a caving difference between a 155 and a 180?

 

[dun]

What percentage of you heifers hit this size window?
What units are you measuring with?
Do you see a caving difference between a 155 and a 180?

sq centimeters
We don;t measure heifers that we've raised. We only retain heifers if they are from a line of cows that calve easy and sired by bulls that have easy calving daughters.
Of the heifers we've bought we haven't had any difference in calving ease between the larger and smaller size.
Just talked to the vet about this subject again a day or 2 ago and he feels that in most herds if heifers are retained the lower 50 percent and the upper 25 percent shouldn;t be kept. But that's just his opinion.
The link deals with pelvic and calving ease:
http://extension.missouri.edu/explore/a ... g02017.htm

 

[3waycross]

Excellant link Dun. There's some very good reading there, again it reinforces the myth of single trait selection. What's your take on the correlation if any between low birth weight and milking ability.

 

[dun]

What's your take on the correlation if any between low birth weight and milking ability.

Keep in mind this is only in our herd since I don;t pay all that much attention to the selections of other producers. I've never seen a real link between them. We have claves that are born small and turn into excellent milkers, others that just don;t get the job done. But we have sleceted for easy calving both direct and as a bulls daughters. We don;t want a lot of milk but adequate. Each producer has to base their selections on the environemnt first of all, then determine what the want to produce based on the limitations of that environment. Just my warped concept.

 

[Oldtimer]

Cool, windy, rain spitting day- with the weatherboys promise of more rain to come , so I thought I would plagerize this part of Kit Pharo's weekly newsletter to see if we stir up any more comments.....

What's all this Talk about Cow Size ?


Nearly every week I read an article or two on the internet or in a beef magazine about cow size. Everyone seems to be infatuated with cow size. All of the so-called experts are talking about cow size. What's going on? Why all this talk about cow size all of a sudden?



The beef industry has been obsessed with increasing weaning weights for the past 40 years. Everyone mistakenly believed they could increase profits simply by increasing weaning weights. That concept worked for a little while – but eventually our bigger and bigger weaning weights reached a point of diminishing returns. You cannot produce something for nothing! When we increased our weaning weights we changed the size and the type of our momma cows. Producing bigger and bigger weaning weights requires bigger and bigger cows with ever increasing maintenance costs.



Every increase in production has a cost involved. When it cost more to produce a pound of beef than a pound of beef is worth, we have gone too far. I believe the beef industry crossed over this line 15 to 20 years ago. If that is the case, then why did everyone continue to chase after bigger weaning weights for another 15 to 20 years? Because it is very easy to measure increases weaning weights. In contrast, it is not so easy to measure increases in efficiency and profitability. As long as they are not going broke, most ranchers do not concern themselves with profitability. They think it is boring and much too hard to calculate.



The current beef industry was built on cheap grain and cheap fuel. Times have changed! The era of cheap grain and cheap fuel is over. It will continue to become more and more difficult for the typical (high-input, high-production) rancher to make a profit. That is why everyone is talking about cow size. The light has finally come on. Ranchers need to make changes in their operation and in their cowherd if they want to survive the next era. What has worked for the past 20 years will NOT work for the next 20 years!



While everyone is talking about the benefits of the 1100-pound cow, Pharo Cattle Company continues to be one of very few places you can find a bull that will actually produce an 1100-pound cow. If you want to produce efficient and profitable momma cows, you must use bulls that were produced by efficient and profitable momma cows. Like begets like!

 

[bigbull338]

now this is a pic of my 1800lb beefmaster cow.as yall can see she is a big framed cow.

 

[novatech]

now this is a pic of my 1800lb beefmaster cow.as yall can see she is a big framed cow.

Even though she is 1800 lbs she is also efficient due to her genetics. Brahman and Hereford are both known for their high efficiency. This efficiency will be past on to the terminal calves sold to the feed lots. On the other hand if the frame was lower on the same breed I could see were you could gain in herd efficiency.
Shrinking your cattle does not guarantee efficiency. Big cows that are feed efficient does not guarantee herd efficiency. Bottom line is lbs. produced on forage available.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

now this is a pic of my 1800lb beefmaster cow.as yall can see she is a big framed cow.

are you positive on that weight??

 

[bigbull338]

no ive never weighed her.but according to my eye she looks to weigh 1700 to 1800lbs.ive got another cow that id say weighs 1500lbs.an she is alot bigger than her.what do you think she weighs.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

no ive never weighed her.but according to my eye she looks to weigh 1700 to 1800lbs.ive got another cow that id say weighs 1500lbs.an she is alot bigger than her.what do you think she weighs.

well i was thinking she was more in the 1500+ range. id hate too condemn one on what i thought her weight was only, without actual figures to work with.she looks like a typical beefmaster should

 

[bigbull338]

well i never hold anyone to weight guesses.

 

[Northern Rancher]

To me an efficient cow doesn't weigh any more than her calves weight at finish. Our fat cattle average right around 1300 pounds at slaughter and our cull cows fat off grass are right around 1200. I couldn't run 1800 pound cows they'd intimidate my bulls and terrify my saddle horses. Big fat cows are pretty though but to me pretty is as pretty does.

 

[TexasBred]

BigBull...how long is that feeder?? 8 Ft.??? That will give you something to compare her too....she's big regardless.

 

[mnmtranching]

Anybody that can make a accurate weight estimate by looking a t that photo, is purty darn good. :clap:

 

[bigbull338]

the feed bunk is 10 or 11ft long.an yes she is a big cow.

 

[KNERSIE]

Anybody that can make a accurate weight estimate by looking a t that photo, is purty darn good. :clap:

I am usually very good at judging weight in person, but have to admit I haven't mastered the art of guessing a weight on a photo with no other reference point in the pic

 

[TexasBred]

I missed guessing the weight on a rooster 18 lbs. one time. :lol:

 

[rocket2222]

Cool, windy, rain spitting day- with the weatherboys promise of more rain to come , so I thought I would plagerize this part of Kit Pharo's weekly newsletter to see if we stir up any more comments.....

What's all this Talk about Cow Size ?


Nearly every week I read an article or two on the internet or in a beef magazine about cow size. Everyone seems to be infatuated with cow size. All of the so-called experts are talking about cow size. What's going on? Why all this talk about cow size all of a sudden?



The beef industry has been obsessed with increasing weaning weights for the past 40 years. Everyone mistakenly believed they could increase profits simply by increasing weaning weights. That concept worked for a little while – but eventually our bigger and bigger weaning weights reached a point of diminishing returns. You cannot produce something for nothing! When we increased our weaning weights we changed the size and the type of our momma cows. Producing bigger and bigger weaning weights requires bigger and bigger cows with ever increasing maintenance costs.



Every increase in production has a cost involved. When it cost more to produce a pound of beef than a pound of beef is worth, we have gone too far. I believe the beef industry crossed over this line 15 to 20 years ago. If that is the case, then why did everyone continue to chase after bigger weaning weights for another 15 to 20 years? Because it is very easy to measure increases weaning weights. In contrast, it is not so easy to measure increases in efficiency and profitability. As long as they are not going broke, most ranchers do not concern themselves with profitability. They think it is boring and much too hard to calculate.



The current beef industry was built on cheap grain and cheap fuel. Times have changed! The era of cheap grain and cheap fuel is over. It will continue to become more and more difficult for the typical (high-input, high-production) rancher to make a profit. That is why everyone is talking about cow size. The light has finally come on. Ranchers need to make changes in their operation and in their cowherd if they want to survive the next era. What has worked for the past 20 years will NOT work for the next 20 years!



While everyone is talking about the benefits of the 1100-pound cow, Pharo Cattle Company continues to be one of very few places you can find a bull that will actually produce an 1100-pound cow. If you want to produce efficient and profitable momma cows, you must use bulls that were produced by efficient and profitable momma cows. Like begets like!

I'll try to stir it up a little A 1100 lb cow might eat less than A 1500 lb cow, but that sure don't mean she's more efficient. Here's a cow that I call efficient. Picture was taken in Oct. last year, we had only 5 tenths of rain between begining of June till the middle of Aug. Then we had 2 good rains at the end of Aug. The weeds grew the grass didn't. She had her heifer calf about 2 weeks prior to the picture. I didn't start feeding hay till Jan. because I didn't have enough, so she lived on what you see there till then, and then I still didn't have enough, so they got a bale every 5 days which they ate up in 3 days. I started to feel a little sorry for them about mid way through the winter, and fed them some grain, although it did not last long as it went up from $7.00 to $10.00 a bag, so they were back to roughing it pretty quick. All total she got maybe got 30 lbs during that time if she ate fast. So to end the story [finally] :clap: her heifer weaned off with a 205 day weight of 531 lbs. Ofcoase last years heifer calf when we had grass and plenty of hay weaned off at 205 days at 656 lbs. the cow was down about 50lbs in weight when weighed at weaning from the year before.
So the real reason I posted the pic, is to see if you'll could guess her weight, beings you all claim to be good at it, this was her 5th calf, so she's around 7 years old

 

[iowafarmer]

im going to guess 1250 hard to tell with nothign in the backround to size her by. that is a really nice cow tho and deffinately an amazing herford to be i nthat good of condition with what she ahd to eat.