Cow Size

[Busterz]

I agree that people will continue to hold on to their opinions. And people will do what they want.

But one thing that won't change in is smaller cows eat less than bigger cows which means they are cheaper to keep and their calves are cheaper to produce.

I might prefer to drive a Mack truck to work but if I drive a vehicle that gets 40 miles per gallon I'm gonna end up with more money in my pocket. But if I have the means and my preferences are worth that much to me then who cares, they both do the same job.

 

[milkmaid]

But one thing that won't change in is smaller cows eat less than bigger cows which means they are cheaper to keep and their calves are cheaper to produce.

Out of curiousity (and not picking on you)...

what makes one cow "cheaper" to keep than another? the amount of money you put into them? the amount their calves bring at the sale in the end? or both, the profit after expenses are deducted from income?

If profit defines which cow is cheaper than another, then is it not possible a larger cow could actually be cheaper to keep than a smaller cow?

 

[Busterz]

I said "cheaper" because they require less feed, the main input cost. I think cheap refers to costs.

Profit has to do with the price received less costs. More profit wouldn't be cheaper, it would just be more profitable.

There might be a way for a larger cow to be more profitable than a smaller one but if you sell cattle in a commodity market, you get the same price for calves produced by a small cow as a large one so in order to increase you profit you have to find a way to make you calves worth more than the market .

Price per pound of beef - cost per pound of beef = profit

Even if you can get premiums over the market, they aren't based on your cows size.

Maybe you can get more of a profit out of a larger cow but I don't see it. And I'm not saying large cows can't be profitable, I just think that all thinks being equal the smaller cow is going to be more profitable.

 

[rocket2222]

Exactly, as the cow size increases it gets more and more difficult for her to find enough energy and protein in her gut fill to meet her needs, feed a bigger calf, AND breed back.......even assuming that there is not a limit on groceries. Even using Aero's numbers, a 55% increase per cow in metabalizable energy translates into a whole lot more winter supplementation and at $6.5 a bushel corn, $300++ a ton cottonseed, and $45 a roll hay (the #s in this weeks AL Lvstk mrkt News) the $$$$ you get per calf has to really increase to pay for it.

I thought ya'll were saying smaller better. If you are having to supplement a 1100 lb cow besides hay with corn and/or cottonseed to make through a winter, that about as inefficient as it gets. :roll:

You know darn well that different operations NEED to supplement at different levels based on stocking rate and available forage. I won't tell somebody NOT to supplement their cows.....without seeing the cows and the forage at hand. IF you are using grains to supplement moderate framed cows.......you will be buying more of it to supplement bigger cows.

Maybe I do, but I think picking out the right genetics is important too. You know darn well that there are plenty of 1100 lb cows as well 1600 lb cows that you throw all the feed you can at them and they still look like crap, and don't perform as well as they should, thats genetics. Even though I have given people a hard time about cow size, I have no problem with small cows, I just don't believe just because a cows smaller it makes her more efficient. My last bull has sired calves that look like in all but one heifer to be smaller framed than their dams. I don't have any problem with it.. Will these heifers eat less than their dams, probably. Will these calves be more efficient than their dams. That will depend on how well the genetic make up of the bull blends with the genetic make up of the cow. The genetics not their size will determine if these heifers will be more efficient. My new bull is a little smaller yet, looks like he going to be about a 5.5 frame. I chose him because of his muscule shape, thickness, how well he moved, epds and breeding, not really for his frame size, although I do have limits. If he was less than a 5 or more than a 7, I would have past on him. So I will more than likely lose some frame with him too on my older cows, as long as his calves are overall better quailty than their dams, I'll be happy. It would be pretty funny if every calf he sired ended up with a fully grown weight of between 1100/1200 lbs whether they are good ones or not. From what I read on here, I could make a fortune selling semen to the folks on this forum alone, apparently that all it takes is a 1100 lb cow and you have a super efficient money making machine. In the future as dna testing becomes more accurate and reliable we will find out for sure which cows are the most efficient. I may be in the market for a bunch of 1100 lb cows, maybe not. :lol:

 

[TexasBred]

I agree that people will continue to hold on to their opinions. And people will do what they want.

But one thing that won't change in is smaller cows eat less than bigger cows which means they are cheaper to keep and their calves are cheaper to produce.

I might prefer to drive a Mack truck to work but if I drive a vehicle that gets 40 miles per gallon I'm gonna end up with more money in my pocket. But if I have the means and my preferences are worth that much to me then who cares, they both do the same job.

Wellsince we're comparing "trucks".....yep..you'll have more "gas money" left over but what kind of job did your truck do. Did it haul a half ton or 25 tons. Will it pull a stock trailer with 5 tons of cattle in it? What is the end result. Does your engine last 100 K miles or 500 K miles?? A very puny argument you make. ...but in the end...yep..you saved a little gas money :!: :!:

 

[EAT BEEF]

Most folks are always wanting to change something and thats how the seedstock folks make money.

Why do we care so much if joe has big cows and john has small cows?

If you think you have what is making you the most money stick with it.If you come to look at the bulls I have for sale I'll tell you why I do what I do.If I don't have what you wan't I'll take you down the road a few miles and show you some bigger terminal type bulls of the neighbors.I get lunch paid for and you might find a bull you want.

 

[novatech]

Common sense would imply that smaller cattle would eat less. That is to people that are new to cattle and do not know about hard keepers, easy fleshing, longevity, etc. I've never seen size make 2 cents worth of difference. Now good sound breeding for efficiency, easy fleshing, etc. should be ones first concern. When you get that down maybe size will be a consideration.
I think a lot of this size thing is being sold by those that raise the little ones.
Try and do some googleing on the subject. You will find their is very little research on the subject. It seems that size should be based on conditions. The only ones pointing out the benefits are those that will profit from them.

 

[Busterz]

I agree that people will continue to hold on to their opinions. And people will do what they want.

But one thing that won't change in is smaller cows eat less than bigger cows which means they are cheaper to keep and their calves are cheaper to produce.

I might prefer to drive a Mack truck to work but if I drive a vehicle that gets 40 miles per gallon I'm gonna end up with more money in my pocket. But if I have the means and my preferences are worth that much to me then who cares, they both do the same job.

Wellsince we're comparing "trucks".....yep..you'll have more "gas money" left over but what kind of job did your truck do. Did it haul a half ton or 25 tons. Will it pull a stock trailer with 5 tons of cattle in it? What is the end result. Does your engine last 100 K miles or 500 K miles?? A very puny argument you make. ...but in the end...yep..you saved a little gas money :!: :!:

I clearly stated the same vehicles were for the same purpose, to get to work.

Your other questions are about other things. Which is similar to some of the aruguments on here about cow size...they are about things other than cow size.
Seems like people assume a smaller cow won't have fleshing ability or be able to breed back or they don't last as long, etc. Those are mostly genetic issues not related to size.

"...but in the end...yep..you saved a little gas money " Who said it was a little? Maybe it was a lot. Its not just saving money, its making profit.

 

[TexasBred]

Buster the long and short of it is you can make either program work if you know how. You can't go simply on size whether large or small is your preference. Absolutely genetics come into play along with climate, insects, disease and what your market wants. In my market the buyers want big, black with some Brahman influence and that cow will handle the outside influences well. One state over it might be medium, red and teddy bear ears. All this comes works into your profitability or lack thereof.

 

[EAT BEEF]

Why do we care so much about the size of other peoples cows,if you don't like a certian kind of cow don't buy them.I really want to to know why you all care so much what size cows the neighbor has?

With the changes takeing place as to inputs I bet your profit will be based more on how well you can manage your pastures and other resources than if you have a 4 frame cow or a 6 frame cow.

 

[TexasBred]

Why do we care so much about the size of other peoples cows,if you don't like a certian kind of cow don't buy them.I really want to to know why you all care so much what size cows the neighbor has?

With the changes takeing place as to inputs I bet your profit will be based more on how well you can manage your pastures and other resources than if you have a 4 frame cow or a 6 frame cow.

Basically what I said....management is key. That covers much more than simple ownership. ;-)

 

[novatech]

For those that feel that they can compare trucks to cattle. My toy tecoma gets 16 mpg. My dodge cummins gets 16 mpg.

 

[TexasBred]

For those that feel that they can compare trucks to cattle. My toy tecoma gets 16 mpg. My dodge cummins gets 16 mpg.

And probably a lot more comfortable as well.

 

[rocket2222]

For those that feel that they can compare trucks to cattle. My toy tecoma gets 16 mpg. My dodge cummins gets 16 mpg.

I thought Texans didn't drive Toyota's I can get 18 mpg out of my 2004.5 dodge if I'm not in a hurry to get somewhere or towing the trailer. Can't remember the last time I wasn't in a hurry though.

 

[3waycross]

For those that feel that they can compare trucks to cattle. My toy tecoma gets 16 mpg. My dodge cummins gets 16 mpg.

Doesn't that pretty much prove the whole argument here? Most Tacoma's get better than 19 to 20 mpg, yours does not it's not the size of the truck it's the effiency. Just as you can have an efficient small cow and one who's not efficient.

However, it also proves it another way since the mileage on your cummins is about all that can be expected, for a vehicle with that size and power. Call me crazy but that makes sense to me. :nod:

 

[TexasBred]

For those that feel that they can compare trucks to cattle. My toy tecoma gets 16 mpg. My dodge cummins gets 16 mpg.

I thought Texans didn't drive Toyota's I can get 18 mpg out of my 2004.5 dodge if I'm not in a hurry to get somewhere or towing the trailer. Can't remember the last time I wasn't in a hurry though.

Rocket...most didn't til they started making them in San Antonio....see worlds of them now. Still like my Chevy better tho.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

For those that feel that they can compare trucks to cattle. My toy tecoma gets 16 mpg. My dodge cummins gets 16 mpg.

I thought Texans didn't drive Toyota's I can get 18 mpg out of my 2004.5 dodge if I'm not in a hurry to get somewhere or towing the trailer. Can't remember the last time I wasn't in a hurry though.

Rocket...most didn't til they started making them in San Antonio....see worlds of them now. Still like my Chevy better tho.

well theres 2 thing's we both like, chevy trucks and brangus cattle.

 

[rocket2222]

For those that feel that they can compare trucks to cattle. My toy tecoma gets 16 mpg. My dodge cummins gets 16 mpg.

I thought Texans didn't drive Toyota's I can get 18 mpg out of my 2004.5 dodge if I'm not in a hurry to get somewhere or towing the trailer. Can't remember the last time I wasn't in a hurry though.

Rocket...most didn't til they started making them in San Antonio....see worlds of them now. Still like my Chevy better tho.

Texas, NASCAR, the rest of the worlds next, oops, they've already done the rest of the world, darn those Japs are good.

 

[TexasBred]

Sad but true. :cry2:

 

[DOC HARRIS]

Having been gone across the country for a week, I have not been privileged to express my opinion regarding "COW SIZE", but several of you experienced cow men and women have presented the FACTS very succinctly and correctly!

Large Cows cost Large Dollars out of your pocket!

When I was in the First Grade, my teacher would print, with a Mimeograph Machine, a new word for us to learn each day, and send a copy of that word, in 1" block letters, home with us and we had to paste it in a scrapbook and learn how to spell it. One day, the word was "SAID", and when I got that scrap of paper home with that word printed on it, I accidentally tore the paper, and in pasting it in my scrapbook I got paste on the paper, the word, and my fingers, so that the word "SAID" was smeared all to the dickens! To this day, I sometimes have a problem with spelling the simple word SAID! That situation is similar to this "COW SIZE" problem: Even though we should ALL know the FACTS surrounding Cow Size, some breeders continue to believe whatever they wish, no matter how it is spelled!! Perhaps it would be a good idea to paste the facts about COW SIZE in your scrapbooks, being careful not to "glue" it up!

DOC HARRIS