Unmistakable of Branded

[76 Bar]

CreekAngus beat me to the punch. 8)
To be more specific BH stated:

Here is one of our Unmistakable bulls out of a McCumber Angus sire.

A perusal of the pedigree of Unmistakeable of Branded you provided indicates he was sired by a son of O C C Unmistakable and was in utero when you purchased the dam. To imply otherwise is duplicitous.
For someone who takes pride in being recognized by the AAA I'm surprised that the vast majority of animals you crow about are backed by generations of Stone Gate females and precious few generations deep from the BH prefix.

 

[CattleMan1920]

But, just because he has great pedigree - does not guarantee a great offspring. Sometimes they click, sometimes they don't.

Would you also say to breed to a bull of unknown pedigree and little to no EPD information? I get the feeling that you pay little attention to what those DNA tests reveal and select bulls strictly on phenotype. That works if you are looking for a certain look out of a bull, but what if you are wanting a certain performance trait?

This bull has a few things I value highly, namely MILK, and heifer pregnancy, not to mention efficiency He's not destined for AI stud, never was, but he will be more than adequate for cleanup on someone's commercial herd.

He's a maternal type bull. I will have 3 terminal type bulls that will be tanks to say the least when they are fully developed, but you sure wouldn't let them near a heifer or smaller cow, like you could with this bull.

He's free of recessives, their are multiple Pathfinders in his pedigree, he weaned above average , he's totally fine to use on heifers, and he has very good feet.

There has been a lot of discussion as Ron has said over a bull that is not even one of my AI sons. I'm sure we could all rip apart most non AI sons in catalogs across the country. He's a very good bull for the price and will do an excellent job, I'm sure of that. I have someone that is probably going to take him next week, and if she does, I will give everyone updates on how he performed. That is the true test of a bull, not how pretty he is in a certain pic or video.

As we all know, their looks can be deceiving, some of the "best bulls", even out of top breeders, some very close to me have fizzled out and never produced semen. That's just how it goes.

This bull however has a high semen count and it potent, and from what I can tell from all the discussions I've read on CT, having lots of calves on the ground trumps how photogenic a bull appears.

 

[CattleMan1920]

CreekAngus beat me to the punch. 8)
To be more specific BH stated:

Here is one of our Unmistakable bulls out of a McCumber Angus sire.

A perusal of the pedigree of Unmistakeable of Branded you provided indicates he was sired by a son of O C C Unmistakable and was in utero when you purchased the dam. To imply otherwise is duplicitous.
For someone who takes pride in being recognized by the AAA I'm surprised that the vast majority of animals you crow about are backed by generations of Stone Gate females and precious few generations deep from the BH prefix.

Duplicitous???

I post the AAA number all the time. I never stated anything other than the truth.

I told you exactly what this bull was from the get go.

You act like a detective that just discovered some valuable clue but haven't discovered anything.

You seem to have a problem with Stone Gate, but do you have a problem with breeders using embryos from other operations?

I have other animals I've posted on here that are 3 generations or more deep on pedigree from Branded , but you are silent on those. We don't inbreed our herd year after year, so there will always be other prefixes in our operation. You could say Herbster Angus has too many outside prefixes in the herd, but they have a peerless operation that most could only dream of acquiring.

I think you are just stirring the pot. Post info on your operation like I do and let's take a closer look at how you roll. Don't be surprised when the criticism gets a bit heated.

Give me the AAA of your very best animal and I can shred it somewhere in the pedigree or EPDs. I certain that you don't own perfection, nor does anyone else on here who are armchair quarterbacks.

I post "real life videos and photos" not buffed and polished sale book photos in deep straw. There is a lot to be said about that. Someone earlier made a comment about my pasture being low, that was so you all could see the feet, if it had been high you would have said "what's he hiding".

This is becoming neurotic at best.

 

[CattleMan1920]

CreekAngus beat me to the punch. 8)
To be more specific BH stated:

Here is one of our Unmistakable bulls out of a McCumber Angus sire.

A perusal of the pedigree of Unmistakeable of Branded you provided indicates he was sired by a son of O C C Unmistakable and was in utero when you purchased the dam. To imply otherwise is duplicitous.
For someone who takes pride in being recognized by the AAA I'm surprised that the vast majority of animals you crow about are backed by generations of Stone Gate females and precious few generations deep from the BH prefix.

You brought this up, so let's take things there.

Here is an Elation daughter, her Branded dams go back for three generations. She is STILL one of two SAV Elation daughters in the country that are DNA proven, outside of SAV as of this weeks update. We own the number two as well.

[image]243[/image]

http://bit.ly/2UF0Dzd

Or maybe this mystery gal, who I will discuss more in the upcoming months, she is rare air, and 206 days old in this photo. Again, from multiple generations back of Branded dams.

[image]292[/image]

I've got PLENTY more where that came from, and will keep posting them if you want me to. Unless you are tied into AAA in a way I'm not aware of, you really don't know what is going on out here at Branded. You only know what I'm curating, and quite frankly, I'm showing you last years efforts, not what's in store for 2020.

Also, as for your comment about us regarding AAA and how we conduct ourselves. We DNA test every animal we have, we weigh every animal, we've submitted TONS of data to AAA, way more than the average AAA member. Our records are impeccable. We play BY THE BOOK. If that is somehow being a below average member of AAA, then so be it, I guess we are not doing our job properly as members. Whatever we offer here, has all the proof to back things up, we aren't offering animals with NO PARENTAGE testing as something they really are not, and are more likely the progeny of the cleanup sire. How is that "duplicitous"?

I've seen operations that say they have a calf sired by "XYZ sire" but will not DNA test them for parentage, that's duplicitous if you need a definition. They figure the buyer will not be registering the animal and that any question of parentage will be lost in the fog of war, as they say. That never happens on our operation.

I've never trashed your operation, nor will I ever trash your operation. I don't even know who you are, for all I know you could be anything from a novice operator to a full-fledged operation in disguise. One thing you aren't, however, is transparent, which matters in the cattle business.

 

[CreekAngus]

Branded: You're getting wound up over nothing. Most of the comments you got were actually quite flattering, folks told you they don't like this bull and emphasized you have shown us far better. Take the kudos, along with the criticism. You got some nice cattle, this bull just doesn't seem to be one of them. I do have a question and this isn't a catch ya question, but an honest one, do you find it odd Square B hasn't DNA'ed any progeny out of Elation? I will admit I'm not in the know and just going off what you stated. I'm starting to like the bull battery at Square B, I'm thinking of buying a cow bred to Legendary.

 

[NEFarmwife]

how are you identifying your calves that are registered?

 

[NEFarmwife]

Branded: You're getting wound up over nothing. Most of the comments you got were actually quite flattering, folks told you they don't like this bull and emphasized you have shown us far better. Take the kudos, along with the criticism. You got some nice cattle, this bull just doesn't seem to be one of them. I do have a question and this isn't a catch ya question, but an honest one, do you find it odd Square B hasn't DNA'ed any progeny out of Elation? I will admit I'm not in the know and just going off what you stated. I'm starting to like the bull battery at Square B, I'm thinking of buying a cow bred to Legendary.

We bred a few to Legendary. Our semen guy pushed him heavily. We didn't buy any ourselves but cleaned up with him from a couple straws we bought from one of our A.I. customers.

Apparently, he's quite popular around here but he's being pushed hard too.

 

[CattleMan1920]

Branded: You're getting wound up over nothing. Most of the comments you got were actually quite flattering, folks told you they don't like this bull and emphasized you have shown us far better. Take the kudos, along with the criticism. You got some nice cattle, this bull just doesn't seem to be one of them. I do have a question and this isn't a catch ya question, but an honest one, do you find it odd Square B hasn't DNA'ed any progeny out of Elation? I will admit I'm not in the know and just going off what you stated. I'm starting to like the bull battery at Square B, I'm thinking of buying a cow bred to Legendary.

I understand and appreciate what you said.

From what I understand Square B does NOT have Elation calves on the ground YET to DNA test.

 

[CattleMan1920]

how are you identifying your calves that are registered?

They are tattooed at birth, ear tagged after the ear develops and is less prone to damage, and then ultimately freeze branded.

We have our mommas split up in groups, not all together. It's pretty easy to see a calf nursing, separate it from the momma and watch her go ballistic, and then know who is who.

I use Z tags now, did use the two piece tags before. I'm gun shy on tags because last summer I tagged a very nice Raindance daughter and within a week the ear became infected. I am super clean with the equipment and dip everything in 99% alcohol and spray iodine on the pierced part after tagging, but this one now has a droopy ear as a result. She looks outstanding otherwise, and it's no big deal because she will never be leaving our ranch, but I just don't like the way it looks cosmetically. By waiting a few weeks and switching to the one piece tags I have eliminated that problem. She was the only one in years that has happened to, but one is too many for me.

As a back up everyone is DNA tested so I'm certain of "numbers matching" progeny.

 

[CattleMan1920]

Branded: You're getting wound up over nothing. Most of the comments you got were actually quite flattering, folks told you they don't like this bull and emphasized you have shown us far better. Take the kudos, along with the criticism. You got some nice cattle, this bull just doesn't seem to be one of them. I do have a question and this isn't a catch ya question, but an honest one, do you find it odd Square B hasn't DNA'ed any progeny out of Elation? I will admit I'm not in the know and just going off what you stated. I'm starting to like the bull battery at Square B, I'm thinking of buying a cow bred to Legendary.

Also, the fine folks at Square B have never, even in the slightest, given me a reason for concern in our business dealings. Brian Bell has helped me far more than he needed to, same with Bailey. Really good people in the cattle business, and overall.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

Branded: You're getting wound up over nothing. Most of the comments you got were actually quite flattering, folks told you they don't like this bull and emphasized you have shown us far better. Take the kudos, along with the criticism. You got some nice cattle, this bull just doesn't seem to be one of them. I do have a question and this isn't a catch ya question, but an honest one, do you find it odd Square B hasn't DNA'ed any progeny out of Elation? I will admit I'm not in the know and just going off what you stated. I'm starting to like the bull battery at Square B, I'm thinking of buying a cow bred to Legendary.

he's suffering from neurosis of the liver. :cowboy:

 

[CattleMan1920]

Branded: You're getting wound up over nothing. Most of the comments you got were actually quite flattering, folks told you they don't like this bull and emphasized you have shown us far better. Take the kudos, along with the criticism. You got some nice cattle, this bull just doesn't seem to be one of them. I do have a question and this isn't a catch ya question, but an honest one, do you find it odd Square B hasn't DNA'ed any progeny out of Elation? I will admit I'm not in the know and just going off what you stated. I'm starting to like the bull battery at Square B, I'm thinking of buying a cow bred to Legendary.

he's suffering from neurosis of the liver. :cowboy:

It is a challenge to keep things focused on cattle from what I see, on a forum aptly named "Cattle Today"

Maybe it should be called "Slurs and Such"

I get the message, "you aren't part of the CT "Old Guard" tread lightly"

This place sounds like a stuffy old country club at times. Stifling. Not everyone on here, but a few and you know who you are...

Are their any other sites where people are really hardcore about their cattle? I would be active on Facebook if I were looking to argue and be trolled.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

The tighter you get wound up, the longer folks want to spin you....better to get criticized here good or bad,right or wrong ...take what you need for the real world, and leave the rest..

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

As I have mentioned numerous times, yes, I use EPD's - as a tool. They are NOT God's gift to the beef industry. They are a great TOOL. All my cattle are weighed at birth, and many, many times there after. Actual performance of weight, fertility, structure, temperament, easy keeping --- mean a whole lot more to me than what's on a piece of paper. Yes, I DNA test occasionally. As I mentioned, I DNA tested my whole herd from oldest cow down to weaned calves last year. All the DNA test does for my own personal cows, is to make their EPD's MORE ACCURATE.
Looks of a sire is extremely important to me - and how prepotent he is in passing on his good traits.
Don't get in a wad because some of us don't like the total looks (or lack of) on an animal. I did state he appeared to be structurally correct, walking out well. You say he is a heifer bull .... I said he looked like a heifer bull. Calm down.
Do like me - only post pictures or videos that come out good. If you don't think this video shows us how powerful he "really" is, don't blame us if we don't compliment him.

 

[Boot Jack Bulls]

Branded: You're getting wound up over nothing. Most of the comments you got were actually quite flattering, folks told you they don't like this bull and emphasized you have shown us far better. Take the kudos, along with the criticism. You got some nice cattle, this bull just doesn't seem to be one of them. I do have a question and this isn't a catch ya question, but an honest one, do you find it odd Square B hasn't DNA'ed any progeny out of Elation? I will admit I'm not in the know and just going off what you stated. I'm starting to like the bull battery at Square B, I'm thinking of buying a cow bred to Legendary.

he's suffering from neurosis of the liver. :cowboy:

It is a challenge to keep things focused on cattle from what I see, on a forum aptly named "Cattle Today"

Maybe it should be called "Slurs and Such"

I get the message, "you aren't part of the CT "Old Guard" tread lightly"

This place sounds like a stuffy old country club at times. Stifling. Not everyone on here, but a few and you know who you are...

Are their any other sites where people are really hardcore about their cattle? I would be active on Facebook if I were looking to argue and be trolled.

You are partly correct in your assessment of CT. The fact is, you seem to go out of your way to attract the criticism and query that upsets you about CT. If you are willing to post your animals here, you need to assume that someone will voice an opinion you do not agree with. Take it for what it is, and move on. I will be the first to judge phenotype on animals posted, judging livestock is something I thoroughly enjoy (I try not to chime in unless that sort of assessment is solicited!) I also am willing to post pictures of my own stock here for evaluation (harder to do with new "post image set up") and will admit to not loving some of the feedback, but it is just one person's opinion.... You seem to have a program that works for you and that is great, but not everyone needs to copy it or love it!

 

[Bright Raven]

I have been around these parts a while. It is my observation that Branded does a pretty good job of maintaining his cool. I agree that he attracts a lot of attention and with that attention comes criticism, but he handles it very well. I agree with what Jeanne and Boot Jack posted above. Everyone has an opinion, some of those opinions are biased. Anyone on this board knows there are a couple folks who would not give Branded a positive comment if he were handing out $100 bills. We all know that. Branded, if you are smart, you would not even pay them any attention.

 

[NEFarmwife]

The reason there are no Elation calves that have genomics is because most folks wait till they wean to DNA test/register a calf. Some, even longer.

Many reasons as to why. We don't keep all our Registered cattle. We cull them as hard as we do our commercial. Why spend the money on something you're going to send to the fat pen?

We input those calving records in the AAA calving book so that it's info is recorded. We'll spend the same $7 you do to register but we aren't throwing our money away on a culled calf.

I was at a co-op a few days ago and saw a good dozen elation calves. That was a small group of pairs too.

They're out there. People just aren't throwing money at them yet.

 

[bball]

I have been around these parts a while. It is my observation that Branded does a pretty good job of maintaining his cool. I agree that he attracts a lot of attention and with that attention comes criticism, but he handles it very well. I agree with what Jeanne and Boot Jack posted above. Everyone has an opinion, some of those opinions are biased. Anyone on this board knows there are a couple folks who would not give Branded a positive comment if he were handing out $100 bills. We all know that. Branded, if you are smart, you would not even pay them any attention.

Well said Ron. Anyone who really cares about their cattle has some passion for them. That passion can sometimes make accepting criticisms difficult because of the emotional response associated with having passion. I believe most on here have that passion because the vast majority of us arent making a living strictly from cattle. (Its almost illogical). I genuinely try to accept the criticisms(and they can be rough at times) and appreciate the people who cared enough to offer me insights and opportunities to learn, grow and improve.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

I have been around these parts a while. It is my observation that Branded does a pretty good job of maintaining his cool. I agree that he attracts a lot of attention and with that attention comes criticism, but he handles it very well. I agree with what Jeanne and Boot Jack posted above. Everyone has an opinion, some of those opinions are biased. Anyone on this board knows there are a couple folks who would not give Branded a positive comment if he were handing out $100 bills. We all know that. Branded, if you are smart, you would not even pay them any attention.

Well said Ron. Anyone who really cares about their cattle has some passion for them. That passion can sometimes make accepting criticisms difficult because of the emotional response associated with having passion. I believe most on here have that passion because the vast majority of us arent making a living strictly from cattle. (Its almost illogical). I genuinely try to accept the criticisms(and they can be rough at times) and appreciate the people who cared enough to offer me insights and opportunities to learn, grow and improve.

and some of it can be barn blindness....some of that criticism can slap some folks too reality...I guarantee my cattle wouldn't make the cut on here...but I already knew that in advance..

 

[bball]

I have been around these parts a while. It is my observation that Branded does a pretty good job of maintaining his cool. I agree that he attracts a lot of attention and with that attention comes criticism, but he handles it very well. I agree with what Jeanne and Boot Jack posted above. Everyone has an opinion, some of those opinions are biased. Anyone on this board knows there are a couple folks who would not give Branded a positive comment if he were handing out $100 bills. We all know that. Branded, if you are smart, you would not even pay them any attention.

Well said Ron. Anyone who really cares about their cattle has some passion for them. That passion can sometimes make accepting criticisms difficult because of the emotional response associated with having passion. I believe most on here have that passion because the vast majority of us arent making a living strictly from cattle. (Its almost illogical). I genuinely try to accept the criticisms(and they can be rough at times) and appreciate the people who cared enough to offer me insights and opportunities to learn, grow and improve.

and some of it can be barn blindness....some of that criticism can slap some folks too reality...I guarantee my cattle wouldn't make the cut on here...but I already knew that in advance..

Nor would mine. I sure enjoy seeing some of the cattle posted on here...a man can dream