Unmistakable of Branded

[sim.-ang.king]

A fat bull will have just as many problems as a thin bull. That's why bulls are developed, not fed.

They should be developed and not overfed but sadly that isn't the case with most I see today. Especially with those selling yearlings. At least 80% of the bulls I've looked at have been overfed. 10% underfed and 10% properly fed.

You know why?

It takes $$$$ to feed properly.

Corn gluten and cotton seed hulls, and a highly confined lot is not a great bull development plan.

If you're feeding CG, and CSH in a feedlot ration, it would be cheaper to kick them out on pasture with 1% body weight of 12% mix, which would develop them better too. Feeding bulls can be pretty cheap.
Only reason to feedlot, or full feed bulls would be to make them look better, and get those high YW's.

 

[bball]

A fat bull will have just as many problems as a thin bull. That's why bulls are developed, not fed.

Actually, research shows a fat bull will successfully breed fewer cows than a skinny bull...

You want nuts, guts and butts on your bull.

Completely agree CB. Wasn't saying skinny is better than a properly developed bull, just referencing the following study that showed skinny bulls breed more successfully than obese bulls.



Body condition

Weight and condition are important determinants in whether a bull will be a good breeder. Proper fitness is necessary to deliver the athleticism and endurance needed to cover a large territory and breed a lot of cows.

"For a long time, I told producers they needed to have bulls in abundant flesh because they'd lose weight during breeding season and needed some reserve. Then I saw the results of a study in Canada involving some large community breeding pastures," Whittier says.
That work by Glenn Coulter ultrasound-measured the backfat of a group of bulls on a community pasture. The bulls, the cows they were mated to, and their resulting calves were then all blood-typed to determine parentage.

"I would have predicted that really thin bulls would breed fewer cows, the really fat bulls wouldn't breed very many, and that you'd want bulls to be in the middle," Whittier says. "It turned out that those with zero backfat bred the most cows."


A fat bull isn't as athletically fit and more likely to hurt himself, just like an overweight, out-of-shape human who tries to exercise, he adds. He's also more apt to be lazy.

"A BCS of 5 (with 1 being emaciated and 9 obese) is fine for a bull. A BCS 5 bull may not be pretty but he'll settle more cows than a fat bull. It's crucial that these bulls not be overly fat," Whittier says.

Special considerations must be made for yearling bulls, however. A yearling bull that's still growing may lose too much weight during his first breeding season, Whittier says. That's why a yearling bull should be given fewer cows to breed or shorter turnout times, and be removed from the cows before he draws down too far in body condition.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I, for one, totally believe in raising your cattle on great nutrition (including grain, I happen to use corn, but I do not need protein supplement, because I have 16% protein hay). I do not believe a mature COW "needs" any grain.
I believe in finishing cattle with grain, not grassfed. Different topic.
BH - do you ever post on topics other than the ones you start? You might check out my videos of a cow/calf pair and a pair of fall heifer calves. They are all on grain now, getting ready for a sale. On this board "Breeds board".

 

[CattleMan1920]

I, for one, totally believe in raising your cattle on great nutrition (including grain, I happen to use corn, but I do not need protein supplement, because I have 16% protein hay). I do not believe a mature COW "needs" any grain.
I believe in finishing cattle with grain, not grassfed. Different topic.
BH - do you ever post on topics other than the ones you start? You might check out my videos of a cow/calf pair and a pair of fall heifer calves. They are all on grain now, getting ready for a sale. On this board "Breeds board".

I will check them out later today.

Do you want my opinion?

 

[ALACOWMAN]

A poorly developed bull will usually struggle under heavy use.

I will have his offspring later this year, we can see how they look at that time.

Again, to commercial producers, fertility and milk should matter.

A fat bull will have just as many problems as a thin bull. That's why bulls are developed, not fed.

Actually, research shows a fat bull will successfully breed fewer cows than a skinny bull...

well if they can """successfully""""breed those fewer cows..don't that count For something :cowboy:

 

[CattleMan1920]

I think he bought the cow and she delivered the calf. I suppose he could have cut the little bugger but that didn't happen.

I wish I could get through to you all. But it's a lost cause.

If you knew anything about OCC Paxton 730P, you would want him in the bloodline.

Read about our Unmistakable's great grandsire.

http://www.blackgrove.com/epd.html?reg=14940735

Notice our Unmistakable's phenotype in comparison to Paxton as a mature bull.

You all will see how this unfolds. Unmistakable, folks. is just getting warmed up.

Kind of funny you posted "If you knew anything about OCC Paxton, you would want him in the bloodline".....yet half this thread was devoted to docility. Paxton quite possibly is the worst in the breed for docility, Charlo not a whole lot better. I like the bulls SAV has put together out of this lineage.

I'll take my chances, LOL! I have some Charlo's on the way.

My Unmistakable is significantly younger than Paxton in the photo below, which was taken today. He's got a lot of growing left to do, and a lot of length to allow for that growth.

[image]294[/image]

You all might be surprised how this bull turns out, he may easily surpass Paxton at 24-36 months.

 

[CreekAngus]

I wish I could get through to you all. But it's a lost cause.

If you knew anything about OCC Paxton 730P, you would want him in the bloodline.

Read about our Unmistakable's great grandsire.

http://www.blackgrove.com/epd.html?reg=14940735

Notice our Unmistakable's phenotype in comparison to Paxton as a mature bull.

You all will see how this unfolds. Unmistakable, folks. is just getting warmed up.

Kind of funny you posted "If you knew anything about OCC Paxton, you would want him in the bloodline".....yet half this thread was devoted to docility. Paxton quite possibly is the worst in the breed for docility, Charlo not a whole lot better. I like the bulls SAV has put together out of this lineage.

Should I post a video of this bull eating out of my hand and letting me rub his back? Or do you need more, like a video of me riding him?

No I don't that wasn't how I wanted my post to be intended. Wasn't beating up your bull for docility, I just thought it was ironic half the thread was about docility and here we have one of the worst lineages in the breed for the trait.

 

[CreekAngus]

Branded: Got a question for ya, not being a snot or put you on the spot. You're using a lot of Paxton influence in your breedings, President, Charlo, Unlimited, America and I don't know if you ever included Rainfall or Raindance. Why don't you pick one, such as President, instead of the entire posse? I always have kind of a reverence for the original sire, "Why use Elation, when I can just use EXT". I would probably breed to Lead On or Dateline if I could find some semen. Just wondering why you don't use just one sire, instead of the lineage up and down the generations.

 

[CattleMan1920]

Branded: Got a question for ya, not being a snot or put you on the spot. You're using a lot of Paxton influence in your breedings, President, Charlo, Unlimited, America and I don't know if you ever included Rainfall or Raindance. Why don't you pick one, such as President, instead of the entire posse? I always have kind of a reverence for the original sire, "Why use Elation, when I can just use EXT". I would probably breed to Lead On or Dateline if I could find some semen. Just wondering why you don't use just one sire, instead of the lineage up and down the generations.

If you were out here where I could show you around, you would see that there has been a big difference in how my President and Raindance daughters look.

One of the big reasons why I use them both is that Raindance is sexed, President is not. I'm making females right and left with Raindance, never had a male yet. As for President, I use him to get males, the President bulls I have are really kicking azz. They look very good.

That's the main reason. Both sires are top notch. As for Charlo, I have not used him too much. I have a few really tall females and I wanted to cross them with him and see what happens. If I get daughters, I will come back with Elation on them to stretch them out.

As for America, I have some big things in store for him. Can't spill all the beans yet.

As for the Paxton influence. I like big butts and belly draggers. LOL!

Don't ever think I take anything personal with you. I like you and enjoy your posts. We are all good my friend.

 

[CreekAngus]

Branded: Got a question for ya, not being a snot or put you on the spot. You're using a lot of Paxton influence in your breedings, President, Charlo, Unlimited, America and I don't know if you ever included Rainfall or Raindance. Why don't you pick one, such as President, instead of the entire posse? I always have kind of a reverence for the original sire, "Why use Elation, when I can just use EXT". I would probably breed to Lead On or Dateline if I could find some semen. Just wondering why you don't use just one sire, instead of the lineage up and down the generations.

If you were out here where I could show you around, you would see that there has been a big difference in how my President and Raindance daughters look.

One of the big reasons why I use them both is that Raindance is sexed, President is not. I'm making females right and left with Raindance, never had a male yet. As for President, I use him to get males, the President bulls I have are really kicking azz. They look very good.

That's the main reason. Both sires are top notch. As for Charlo, I have not used him too much. I have a few really tall females and I wanted to cross them with him and see what happens. If I get daughters, I will come back with Elation on them to stretch them out.

As for America, I have some big things in store for him. Can't spill all the beans yet.

As for the Paxton influence. I like big butts and belly draggers. LOL!

Don't ever think I take anything personal with you. I like you and enjoy your posts. We are all good my friend.

What do you like about President over Raindance? The only Semen company that really services beef here is Select Sires and I've thought of using Rainfall on my commercial heifers (they come out of my registered herd, typically herd bull progeny). I think the best bull I have ever seen come out of the Paxton lineage, is ZWT Paxton. I don't know what kind of progeny he makes, but geez he is a truck.

 

[CattleMan1920]

Branded: Got a question for ya, not being a snot or put you on the spot. You're using a lot of Paxton influence in your breedings, President, Charlo, Unlimited, America and I don't know if you ever included Rainfall or Raindance. Why don't you pick one, such as President, instead of the entire posse? I always have kind of a reverence for the original sire, "Why use Elation, when I can just use EXT". I would probably breed to Lead On or Dateline if I could find some semen. Just wondering why you don't use just one sire, instead of the lineage up and down the generations.

If you were out here where I could show you around, you would see that there has been a big difference in how my President and Raindance daughters look.

One of the big reasons why I use them both is that Raindance is sexed, President is not. I'm making females right and left with Raindance, never had a male yet. As for President, I use him to get males, the President bulls I have are really kicking azz. They look very good.

That's the main reason. Both sires are top notch. As for Charlo, I have not used him too much. I have a few really tall females and I wanted to cross them with him and see what happens. If I get daughters, I will come back with Elation on them to stretch them out.

As for America, I have some big things in store for him. Can't spill all the beans yet.

As for the Paxton influence. I like big butts and belly draggers. LOL!

Don't ever think I take anything personal with you. I like you and enjoy your posts. We are all good my friend.

What do you like about President over Raindance? The only Semen company that really services beef here is Select Sires and I've thought of using Rainfall on my commercial heifers (they come out of my registered herd, typically herd bull progeny). I think the best bull I have ever seen come out of the Paxton lineage, is ZWT Paxton. I don't know what kind of progeny he makes, but geez he is a truck.

He's potent, very potent.

Herbster packs those straws 40 million, and they get the job done.

Now, with that said, Raindance has been potent as well, for sexed semen, the success rate has been high. ST Genetics has quality semen.

People on here can say what they want about Herbster or Schaff, but it was President that Schaff chose to create America, not the others. President's influence at Herbster and SAV cannot be understated, I have a gut feeling that President has a LONG future ahead of him. But that is just my opinion.

I don't have any America progeny YET, but I'm wondering how you have an encore to President? So far, his sons, at least for me, have beat any bull I've ever used, and I have the "A list" in my tank.

I typically like to use a bull, get the progeny, then move on and try something else, but in the case of President, I may come back and use him again this fall. I'm definitely going to use one of his sons that we have as cleanup this fall.

Barring any disaster, I have a particular cow, which I have mentioned on here before, she is probably touching 2175-2200 pounds right now, her sheer mass is a sight to behold. Anyway, she is bred to President as we speak, and I'm thinking it will be a son based on her size. If it is, expect big things from this calf. Her other progeny out here look like the proverbial "brick sh.thouse", and they don't have anywhere near the genes that President brings to the equation.