the question of "objective"

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Brandonm22":2sffwlh0 said:
The offspring ARE like the sire. Most aren't going to win many heifer shows, I don't know that you want them pawing through the snow behind NR's house living off dead grass or browsing the brush behind backhoe's house in July; but put the groceries in front of them and the data says they will grow faster than anything too date including Charolais, frame 8 mooses, Simmentals, you name it. Nothing beats them on paper. Today's Angus is a lot growthier breed than what we had in the 80s and Objective is growthier than MOST of today's Angus. +71 weaning weight and +124 Yearling weight is in the top 1% of the Angus breed. The question people need to be asking is: do we want to be feeding cows each winter in the upper 1% of the Angus breed for growth and bottom 5% for $EN.....probably bottom 1% but Angus's chart is not THAT detailed.

http://www.angus.org/Nce/PercentBreakdown.aspx
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Another bull that came up on a different thread was OCC Prototype. He's essentially the polar opposite of Objective in terms of EPDs. In fact, most of the Ohlde line probably is. Fascinating. Still, if I was going to pay $50 for semen and $50 for a certificate, I would use emblazon . . . and his calves actually still sell better than objectives. Crazy.
 
Well they've not only bred an animal that looks like a Simmental-they bred one that looks like a poor Simmental-we've got one hoof on a slippery slope my friends.
 
Northern Rancher":rs6wmohj said:
Well they've not only bred an animal that looks like a Simmental-they bred one that looks like a poor Simmental-we've got one hoof on a slippery slope my friends.
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Actually if you use the 2008 EPD adjustment factors his Angus EPDs translate into Simmental EPDs of +48 weaning and +107 yearling. THAT would put him in the top 2% of Simmentals for weaning and top 1% for yearling.

http://herdbook.simmental.org/simmapp/s ... purbred.vm
 
life was alot simpler when Angus were used to raise momma cows and we had the European breeds to use for crossbreeding on them-I'd still use another breed rather than a thing like objective-the heifers wouldn't be any bigger or less efficient on the grass but at least we'd have a little heterosis in our corner-just finished preg testing alot more straight blacks in the dry pen than baldies.
 
Look at all those $EN numbers on Objective and his sons, I would agree with N Rancher, he is a corn belt bull. But of course if you are breeding for that, fine. I want cattle that will do well on grass and my experience with the $EN epd-it hasn't failed me yet. BTW N Rancher, I happened to mention to my Genex rep the other day that they need some more positive $EN bulls in their lineup. He told me you're my only customer that has mentioned this. JMHO
 
Are you selling pounds or looks?
I have 2 georgeous heifers out of Objective and just had a fall bull calf which is too youg to tell yet - but growing like a weed!
Blessings
Valerie Clavin
 
vclavin":b6sa0ycu said:
Are you selling pounds or looks?
I have 2 georgeous heifers out of Objective and just had a fall bull calf which is too youg to tell yet - but growing like a weed!
Blessings
Valerie Clavin
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that tells me everything i need to know about your environment.
 
vclavin":f7ip95is said:
Unless you see them, your comment makes no sense. If you breed the right cow to the right bull - and know what you are doing - you get really good animals.
Blessings
Valerie Clavin
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Thanks. I have a pair of twin heifers out of a pathfinder dam I bought this spring and a yearling heifer I bought last year as a cow/calf pair. The yearling's not blowing me away - she's ok. The twins just hit the ground this Sept - kinda wait and see on them. As I'm sure you know, it's really hard to tell with twins at first.
 
The reason this bull has been so popular is not becuase of looks, but because of his offspring. Look in any bull stud catalog and you will see a number of objective sons. They all seem to be better phenotypically than ot26 himself. This is a bull that sires cattle that will grow and perform. The EPDS are there, yes, but the amazing thing is that he has this performance in a moderate frame size. These cattle are functional, and that is being proven by many many small and large seedstock operations across the us. Look at gardiners operation alone. They sold almost 300 ot26 sons in their spring sale. This bull flat works. There are tons of bulls with high performance epds over 100 yw, but most are way to big and not functional.
 
The jury is still out on whether they will be "functional" or not. And I doubt many would consider the offspring of Objective to be "moderate". They do grow like the numbers say they do, but are they the right "kind"?. I'm not buyin.

krenwic
 
cleland":205e830n said:
The reason this bull has been so popular is not becuase of looks, but because of his offspring. Look in any bull stud catalog and you will see a number of objective sons. They all seem to be better phenotypically than ot26 himself. This is a bull that sires cattle that will grow and perform. The EPDS are there, yes, but the amazing thing is that he has this performance in a moderate frame size. These cattle are functional, and that is being proven by many many small and large seedstock operations across the us. Look at gardiners operation alone. They sold almost 300 ot26 sons in their spring sale. This bull flat works. There are tons of bulls with high performance epds over 100 yw, but most are way to big and not functional.
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The reason this bull is so popular is because of his numbers. Yes there are a lot of bulls with yearling weight EPD of +100 (and I would use caution with each one of them) but very few with +120. Yes his sons that wind up in the catalogs do look better than he does, but how many of his sons did they have to sort through to find those??? I am a big time numbers guy; but if folks keep breeding the biggest number in the AI book to the biggest number in the AI book we are headed for a trainwreck.
 
>>but if folks keep breeding the biggest number in the AI book to the biggest number in the AI book we are headed for a trainwreck.<<

I think a lot of us have realized the train has already wrecked. We need a renewed emphasis on OPTIMUM (and everybody's is a little different) and less (or no) emphasis on MAXIMUM.
 
Brandonm22":14b3bi8l said:
cleland":14b3bi8l said:
The reason this bull has been so popular is not becuase of looks, but because of his offspring. Look in any bull stud catalog and you will see a number of objective sons. They all seem to be better phenotypically than ot26 himself. This is a bull that sires cattle that will grow and perform. The EPDS are there, yes, but the amazing thing is that he has this performance in a moderate frame size. These cattle are functional, and that is being proven by many many small and large seedstock operations across the us. Look at gardiners operation alone. They sold almost 300 ot26 sons in their spring sale. This bull flat works. There are tons of bulls with high performance epds over 100 yw, but most are way to big and not functional.
Click to expand...

The reason this bull is so popular is because of his numbers. Yes there are a lot of bulls with yearling weight EPD of +100 (and I would use caution with each one of them) but very few with +120. Yes his sons that wind up in the catalogs do look better than he does, but how many of his sons did they have to sort through to find those??? I am a big time numbers guy; but if folks keep breeding the biggest number in the AI book to the biggest number in the AI book we are headed for a trainwreck.
Click to expand...

Trainwreck is right. Our goal is Bw-0 , ww-50, yw-100 . We came up with this to keep away from the extremes in both directions. The other EPD's are another story - where is the middle? Our herd bull is +.88 IMF is that too high? too low?

Blessings
Valerie Clavin
 
If only breeding cattle was simple algebra-I went through a friends herd who is dispersing-health related-saw alot of good sound footed black cows in their teens-still in good flesh and capable of raising a few more calves. These cattle are productive under range conditions-will we see 14-15 year old Objective daughters in production in anything but a feedbucket enviroment-I highly doubt it. For people who make their living off their cows-longevity, soundness and trouble free/ profitable production trump earth shattering epd's every time. It's getting so we have Angus cattle that don't look like the same species let alone the same breed-sooner or later every bull has to throw some progeny that can walk the earth and graze the grass-a tall order the way the breed is going.
 
Northern Rancher":21mhsicz said:
If only breeding cattle was simple algebra-I went through a friends herd who is dispersing-health related-saw alot of good sound footed black cows in their teens-still in good flesh and capable of raising a few more calves. These cattle are productive under range conditions-will we see 14-15 year old Objective daughters in production in anything but a feedbucket enviroment-I highly doubt it. For people who make their living off their cows-longevity, soundness and trouble free/ profitable production trump earth shattering epd's every time. It's getting so we have Angus cattle that don't look like the same species let alone the same breed-sooner or later every bull has to throw some progeny that can walk the earth and graze the grass-a tall order the way the breed is going.
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If people still ate the same as they did way back when, we's still be raising those same cows. As consumers tastes changed, so did our cows. We are driven by the consumers needs - they don't care how long the cows lives as long as the meat is the what they are looking for.

"For people who make their living off their cows-longevity, soundness and trouble free/ profitable
production trump earth shattering epd's every time." Not so sure that is true. My heifers outperform the cows, I weaned 600-700lb heifers born April 2009 weaned 10 2009 . Yes, creepfed. 5lbs per head for 3 months at under 9 cents per lb cost. Girls are not fat but proper. They were fed high fiber and not high energy - corn gluten, soy hulls, corn, oats, calcium,yeast culture, molasses for dust. Raised on fescue with their moms till weaning. (my registered Angus outperform the xbreeds everytime, so far anyway.
Blessings
Valerie Clavin
 
Good Luck, Val.

You sound like one the Angus breed's ubiquitous 7 year wonders. Fertility and Longevity trump all other traits on a profitable basis unless you are some sort of niche breeder.
 
I didn't realize that beef tasted better now lol. That's a hard one to rebut but I don't think the consumer gives much care to a plus 110 yearling E.P.D either lol. Focusing on longevity and soundness isn't ignoring consumer preferences by any means-siounds like your raising hell and putting a block under it.
 
WichitaLineMan":6lng2fmp said:
Good Luck, Val.

You sound like one the Angus breed's ubiquitous 7 year wonders. Fertility and Longevity trump all other traits on a profitable basis unless you are some sort of niche breeder.
Click to expand...

If you consider the regional Angus Director helped me pick out most of my cows/heifers , athe Missouri geneticist at Columbia helped with genetics/EPD's, and a beef specialist with Angus knowledge helps pick out the sires. Could I go wrong? I did not achieve what I have by myself, I had expert help. And yes, they do taste better. Ask my beef eating customers that pay $2.00lb to $2.20lb swinging weight.
After all, it's the IMF that makes the meat tender and tasty. Much prefer that over the grocery store leather.
Blessings
Valerie Clavin
 

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