Red vrs Black, explain me..

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Lorenzo

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I saw that in the States, you have them in two separated associations, here in South America, we don't.

What really big differences you find to keep them separated and evaluate them separated in the shows ??

Maybe I don't know much, but the more I spend working with bulls the more I like red angus and herefords (and redbrangus and brafords).. :cowboy:

I don't know, is like it's easier for me to "see through" a red animal than a black animal, in other words, it's easier for me to see the good and bad things in a red animal than in a black animal, and also they look more cool... 8)

I must be very wrong because nowadays everyone associates black cattle with better meat.. :roll:


Lorenzo
 

CPL

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Its more a marketing thing. The American Angus Assoc won in that department hands down. I think things are slowly coming around, but the damage was done. Some many breeds have went black and won't go back. The angus assoc convinced the consumer that angus (black cattle) tasted better, more tender, etc. etc. and they bought it. They made Certified Angus Beef (CAB) and as long as its black it qualifies.
 

Baldie Maker

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Black qualifies for CAB and they bring more money at sales around here. Right now red stuff is getting knocked hard. Feeders are only bringing in the high 70's to low 80's if it's red compared to mid 80's or low 90's if it's black.
 

blackcowz

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CPL":29jiongy said:
They made Certified Angus Beef (CAB) and as long as its black it qualifies.

As an Angus producer, I have to correct that statement a little. :D It HAS to be black to qualify. BUT, it must also have at least one parent that is pure Angus. I believe that means at least 50% Angus. Ya can't take a 100% Simmental that's black and sell it CAB. However, a Simm-Angus that has a 100% Angus momma and a 100% Simmental daddy would be 50/50 and could be sold CAB. That sound right, or am I off track?
 

dun

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blackcowz":1188e4s5 said:
CPL":1188e4s5 said:
They made Certified Angus Beef (CAB) and as long as its black it qualifies.

As an Angus producer, I have to correct that statement a little. :D It HAS to be black to qualify. BUT, it must also have at least one parent that is pure Angus. I believe that means at least 50% Angus. Ya can't take a 100% Simmental that's black and sell it CAB. However, a Simm-Angus that has a 100% Angus momma and a 100% Simmental daddy would be 50/50 and could be sold CAB. That sound right, or am I off track?

You're off track. No percentage of angus is specified for CAB. Color, quality grade and no hump.
 

blackcowz

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dun":d8lxmuwc said:
blackcowz":d8lxmuwc said:
CPL":d8lxmuwc said:
They made Certified Angus Beef (CAB) and as long as its black it qualifies.

As an Angus producer, I have to correct that statement a little. :D It HAS to be black to qualify. BUT, it must also have at least one parent that is pure Angus. I believe that means at least 50% Angus. Ya can't take a 100% Simmental that's black and sell it CAB. However, a Simm-Angus that has a 100% Angus momma and a 100% Simmental daddy would be 50/50 and could be sold CAB. That sound right, or am I off track?

You're off track. No percentage of angus is specified for CAB. Color, quality grade and no hump.

Huh, I thought........ Oh well. Gonna have ta lobby to change that a little. :D
 

NoCO

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I thought they had to be 51% black. Seems I heard that somewhere but I will have to double check...
 

dun

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NoCO":30cvp0ng said:
I thought they had to be 51% black. Seems I heard that somewhere but I will have to double check...
That's the color part I alluded to. But there is no requirement that the black be from angus. Beaides the no hump I think it also specifys no dairy
 
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Lorenzo

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Mmmmm, sorry but I think all of you are wrong.... :lol2:

I'm sure that I must be wrong as I not live there, but last year I went to Gardiner Ranch, the day of the auction and the day before that.

The day before the auction there was a lunch at the ranch for a few clients and friends.

I was introduced to Mr Gardiner. He told me that only 15% of all the cattle presented each year qualified for CAB.

It was not only a matter of colour, mother or father, they measure the REA and I don't know how many other things, the animal has to be inside given parameters in several measurments to received the CAB.

At least that was he told us. I was very impressed with this gentleman, has was in his 90's I think. Someone there told me that once a customer call them and said he was not happy with a bull that he has bought from them. Well Mr.Gardiner caught his trailer, put another bull inside and drove I don't know how many thousand miles and he in person delivered the new bull and brought the other one at no charge... :clap:

Whatever the CAB works, without doubt Black Angus Association has done a very good marketing job :nod:

L
 

dun

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Lorenzo":3swrgilk said:
Mmmmm, sorry but I think all of you are wrong.... :lol2:

I'm sure that I must be wrong as I not live there, but last year I went to Gardiner Ranch, the day of the auction and the day before that.

The day before the auction there was a lunch at the ranch for a few clients and friends.

I was introduced to Mr Gardiner. He told me that only 15% of all the cattle presented each year qualified for CAB.

It was not only a matter of colour, mother or father, they measure the REA and I don't know how many other things, the animal has to be inside given parameters in several measurments to received the CAB.

At least that was he told us. I was very impressed with this gentleman, has was in his 90's I think. Someone there told me that once a customer call them and said he was not happy with a bull that he has bought from them. Well Mr.Gardiner caught his trailer, put another bull inside and drove I don't know how many thousand miles and he in person delivered the new bull and brought the other one at no charge... :clap:

Whatever the CAB works, without doubt Black Angus Association has done a very good marketing job :nod:

L
The measurments are the quality grade I mentioned. Besides the 51% black, the following are required:
1. Marbling score of minimum Modest or higher;
2. Lean color, texture, firmness, and overall skeletal characteristics, each of which must
meet the requirements for A maturity in the U.S. grade it qualifies for;
3. Medium or fine marbling texture;
4. Ribeye Area (REA) of 10.0 to 16.0 in2
5. Hot Carcass Weight (HCW) less than 1,000 lbs*
6. Fat Thickness (FT) less than 1.0 inch
7. Moderately thick or thicker muscling and tend to be at least moderately wide and thick in
relation to their length; and
8. No hump exceeding 2 inches in height.
 

angus9259

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blackcowz":258f5g10 said:
CPL":258f5g10 said:
They made Certified Angus Beef (CAB) and as long as its black it qualifies.

As an Angus producer, I have to correct that statement a little. :D It HAS to be black to qualify. BUT, it must also have at least one parent that is pure Angus. I believe that means at least 50% Angus. Ya can't take a 100% Simmental that's black and sell it CAB. However, a Simm-Angus that has a 100% Angus momma and a 100% Simmental daddy would be 50/50 and could be sold CAB. That sound right, or am I off track?

I believe you are referring to the angus age/source verification program.
 

angus9259

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CPL":2uiawcbx said:
Its more a marketing thing. The American Angus Assoc won in that department hands down. I think things are slowly coming around, but the damage was done. Some many breeds have went black and won't go back. The angus assoc convinced the consumer that angus (black cattle) tasted better, more tender, etc. etc. and they bought it. They made Certified Angus Beef (CAB) and as long as its black it qualifies.

I sell my calves to a custom processor. He said I would have to go black or black baldy to get top dollar - excluding solid red angus. He said it had to do with marbling and cost to grade - the two things he targets. He said that when he buys for just lbs of lean red meat, he goes red simi or limi. He hangs and grades carcasses all day long. He's a smart guy I don't know that he'd be snowed by a marketing program. Isn't it possible that there is a marbling and cost to grade advantage which has combined with an outstanding marketing program? If you simply market something that's nonsense, it'll never work. People are simply smarter than that.
 

novatech

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angus9259":vgfl0ab4 said:
People are simply smarter than that.
I will have to disagree with that statement. The entire CAB program is based on people, the consumer,not being smarter than that.
 

Angus Cowman

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yes Lorenzo not all black hided cattle Grade out to cab standards so just because they are black doesn't mean they will be CAB and a clarification The cattle do not have to be Black they have to be Black HIDED so a grey calf can qualify also
and I beleive when they started Cab the requirements were 25% Angus parentage I will check I have this info somewhere

And to answer the ? about being better The cab beef has a higher marbling and the AAA has done a great job of marketing this it is a viable product but would have never gotten this big without a smart marketing strategy it is kindalike John Deere their tractors aren't better the just have Name Recognition and that comes from Marketing

Also Black Angus does have a higher % of beef grading out Prime than any other Straight Breed
And as for your original ? Some people just prefer different colors and types of cattle and some just choose colors other than black because they don't want to own black cows

just because a cow is Black don't mean a thing to me color don't make money perfomance does
 

Frankie

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Lorenzo":3m5rzf5r said:
I saw that in the States, you have them in two separated associations, here in South America, we don't.

What really big differences you find to keep them separated and evaluate them separated in the shows ??

Maybe I don't know much, but the more I spend working with bulls the more I like red angus and herefords (and redbrangus and brafords).. :cowboy:

I don't know, is like it's easier for me to "see through" a red animal than a black animal, in other words, it's easier for me to see the good and bad things in a red animal than in a black animal, and also they look more cool... 8)

I must be very wrong because nowadays everyone associates black cattle with better meat.. :roll:
Lorenzo

I think the US is the only place where red and black Angus are separate. Hugh Watson of Keillor, Scotland is considered the "father" of the breed and he preferred and bred for black. About 1917, the US breed association decided to register only the black animals. So here in the US, people started breeding for black.

Today in the US, the show ring doesn't have a lot of influence on the Angus breed. Bulls that "look" good aren't necessarily going to produce fertile, feed efficient, quality calves. Every year you'll see champion and grand champion Angus bulls sold for big bucks. But most of them will never be heard from again. Today cattlemen look at ultrasound data to help them judge meat quality and feed test results to help judge feed efficiency.

The USDA meat grading system is based on marbling and yield. Higher quality grade meat is worth more money than lower quality grade beef. Packers pay more for animals they think will produce high quality beef, retailers pay more for it and consumers pay more. It's as simple as that. To a certain extent, yield grade can be managed by the feedlot. But if an animal doesn't have the genetics to marble, you can feed him whatever you want for as long as you want and he'll still not produce a quality carcass. The Angus breed has always had a reputation for marbling and being efficient in the feedlot.
 

alacattleman

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the red's seem too have more muscling then the majority of the blacks, probably because their genes are purer ...and aint been tainted too death, from other breed influances
 

backhoeboogie

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novatech":2s28xq30 said:
angus9259":2s28xq30 said:
People are simply smarter than that.
I will have to disagree with that statement. The entire CAB program is based on people, the consumer,not being smarter than that.

Horse traders are wide spread in the cattle markets.
 

angus9259

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novatech":3ad6y8r0 said:
angus9259":3ad6y8r0 said:
People are simply smarter than that.
I will have to disagree with that statement. The entire CAB program is based on people, the consumer,not being smarter than that.

So there are two small groups of geniuses in the world. One is the marketing arm of the AAA - maybe a 1/2 dozen people. The other group of geniuses are cattle producers who've busted the AAA in their diabolical scheme to brainwash an intellectually incapacitated nation. Or, the other, more remote, possibility - the breed actually offers something to the feedlot and processors to reduce costs while acheiving grade. Achem's Razor - the simplest explanation is usually the truth.
 

BeefmasterB

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angus9259":3843hvv5 said:
novatech":3843hvv5 said:
angus9259":3843hvv5 said:
People are simply smarter than that.
I will have to disagree with that statement. The entire CAB program is based on people, the consumer,not being smarter than that.

So there are two small groups of geniuses in the world. One is the marketing arm of the AAA - maybe a 1/2 dozen people. The other group of geniuses are cattle producers who've busted the AAA in their diabolical scheme to brainwash an intellectually incapacitated nation. Or, the other, more remote, possibility - the breed actually offers something to the feedlot and processors to reduce costs while acheiving grade. Achem's Razor - the simplest explanation is usually the truth.

Well said Angus!! It's hard to fool taste, tenderness etc every time.
 
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