Red Charolais

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Warren Allison

Warren Allison

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I didnt know there was such a thing. Apparently they started in Canada, when Charolais breeders started breeding the rare animals that don't have the dilute gene. Info says the reds are pure Charolais...no other kind of cattle in the mix. If you breed them to homo for black cattle, the calves will be black. No more smokeys. These may be just the ideal, non-Brahma composite bull for those Black Simm/ChiAngus heifers we are getting. Dang, it is a long way to Washington to go get 1 or 2, though.
 
When I had registered Charolais we had a light red heifer calf born.
Had at times had sone really light reddish even Hereford marked light red calves born but the coloring would disappear within a week or so and they'd be white, I attributed that to a throwback to what they were bred up from.
The red heifer that I referred to at first was different in that she was darker red than those calves that lightened up not as dark as a red breed it was still diluted but not the typical orange or tan color of a Charolais cross.
She retained that same color
There were a few red factored Charolais being bred and used 30 years ago.
 
Ky hills said:
When I had registered Charolais we had a light red heifer calf born.
Had at times had sone really light reddish even Hereford marked light red calves born but the coloring would disappear within a week or so and they'd be white, I attributed that to a throwback to what they were bred up from.
The red heifer that I referred to at first was different in that she was darker red than those calves that lightened up not as dark as a red breed it was still diluted but not the typical orange or tan color of a Charolais cross.
She retained that same color
There were a few red factored Charolais being bred and used 30 years ago.
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Some of the reds in this catalog are like that, but some are deep, red Angus type red. I always liked Char cows. Seems like their calves tend to grow faster and heavier. Just can't stand those dang smokies. They just look dirty to me. LOL. Just the other day, Clay and I were talking about bulls to use on those heifers after their first calf. I told Clay that the growth a Char would put on the calves, might help make up for the lower price per lb the smokies bring.
 
Doll ranch in North Dakota has been raising them for awhile. Years back there was one in AI I think Genex? Always thought it would be a great cross in areas that discount smokes.
 
redcowsrule33 said:
Doll ranch in North Dakota has been raising them for awhile. Years back there was one in AI I think Genex? Always thought it would be a great cross in areas that discount smokes.
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I think so too. This morning I talked to my buddy that is the breeding manager and AI tech for the huge Charolais operation here. He said he didn't know of any red Char semen off-hand, but he would look. It will be end of 2025 before we would breed them any way. Maybe by then, more and more would be available, and sexed semen would be a plus.
I had heard of attempts to create black Charolais before ( and white Angus, for some reason I don't understand) , but hadn't heard of red Chars til this week. These Black Simm x CHi-Angus heifers we are getting in July are homo for black and polled. He breeds these specifically to be used for a terminal cross, using a 3rd breed bull. He highly discourages using Simm, Chi-angus, Angus or Brangus bulls. I saw some calves, that he had bred a couple he didn't sell to Beefmaster, and they were exceptional. We were thinking of using Gert, BM, or maybe Braford. And even kicked around the idea of maybe using Char, and counting on the extra growth to negate the non-black "dock". But, using a Char with no dilute genes, that produces the same growth as Char, ought to yield some calves that you could almost see them growing every day, and that will fetch the CAB premium consistently. I wish those heifers we are getting in July were 16 months old instead of 6. I am too impatient, and my time here is getting shorter.

I told Clay he ought to get rid of all the other stuff he is doing, and go ahead and order as many for next year as he could afford. And just get some every year as long as this dude is in business...he is about 60 yrs old now. If he got up to about 50 of these cows, he'd be set!
 
From past experience with registered Charolais. Black cattle are not recognized by the AICA. Black Charolais are probably just a creation of individuals they may or may not have a separate breed registry or association like the folks that started the black Hereford registry.
 
RockinRB said:
boise.craigslist.org

40 Red Factor and White Charolais Bulls! - farm & garden - by owner - sale - craigslist

We have 40 Purebred Charolais bulls for sale March 19th! These bulls are derived from our Purebred Charolais Cowherd developed and mountain raised in the North Cascades for over 48 years! We are...
boise.craigslist.org boise.craigslist.org
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These are as far away form me as those at that sale in Washington yesterday, but thanks for posting this. Might find some closer or find semen by when I'd need them, fall of 25.
 
Ky hills said:
From past experience with registered Charolais. Black cattle are not recognized by the AICA. Black Charolais are probably just a creation of individuals they may or may not have a separate breed registry or association like the folks that started the black Hereford registry.
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And I am sure they had to use another breed in there somewhere to get them black. They may be some like black SIm., Lim,. Gelb, Hereford and Chianina that are 15/16th or better, but the info I am finding on red Charolais, is there is no other breed introduced...that red was a color variation already present in Charolais. If a Char is a deep red, then it is homozygous for the red gene, which is recessive. So bred to a homo for black cow or bull, they gonna have black calves. If they perform as well as regular Chars do, ^hey may be a game changer. Even if Dan find us some sexed semen from a top- notch Red Char bull, it would behoove Clay to buy one for clean-up. This next year, if I am, or someone I know is, taking a horse(s) to the pacific NW, I may just call these people that @RockinRB posted, and bring a couple back. I got a hunch about this red Char on those BlackSimm x Chiangus. And my hunches are usually about half right, 50% of the time! :)
 
Warren Allison said:
And I am sure they had to use another breed in there somewhere to get them black. They may be some like black SIm., Lim,. Gelb, Hereford and Chianina that are 15/16th or better, but the info I am finding on red Charolais, is there is no other breed introduced...that red was a color variation already present in Charolais. If a Char is a deep red, then it is homozygous for the red gene, which is recessive. So bred to a homo for black cow or bull, they gonna have black calves. If they perform as well as regular Chars do, ^hey may be a game changer. Even if Dan find us some sexed semen from a top- notch Red Char bull, it would behoove Clay to buy one for clean-up. This next year, if I am, or someone I know is, taking a horse(s) to the pacific NW, I may just call these people that @RockinRB posted, and bring a couple back. I got a hunch about this red Char on those BlackSimm x Chiangus. And my hunches are usually about half right, 50% of the time! :)
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I don't know or care anything at all about a so called black Charolais. They are no doubt an animal bred up using Angus, but are not registered or even recognized by the AICA. The red factor Charolais are legitimate and have been around for a long time. Around 30 years ago a big nationally known Charolais farm here in KY dispersed. They sold several herd bulls including one red factor bull that they purchased out of Canada.
From what little I understand about it and I could be wrong but Charolais are essentially red they just have a double diluter gene. The red factors lack the double diluter. The red factors are still all Charolais and will have the same performance as any other depending on the individual animal.
I personally love the breed and have not had anything that could even come close to compete with them on calf weaning weights.
Watch birthweight, when I was with the breed over 100 pound calves from our registered cows was very common. At those we considered anything under 100 as potential calving ease.
I think the breed has moderated its size, and birthweights and that could have also affected weaning weights too but the heterosis from Chars should still give a good boost of growth for crossbred calves.
 
Ky hills said:
I don't know or care anything at all about a so called black Charolais. They are no doubt an animal bred up using Angus, but are not registered or even recognized by the AICA. The red factor Charolais are legitimate and have been around for a long time. Around 30 years ago a big nationally known Charolais farm here in KY dispersed. They sold several herd bulls including one red factor bull that they purchased out of Canada.
From what little I understand about it and I could be wrong but Charolais are essentially red they just have a double diluter gene. The red factors lack the double diluter. The red factors are still all Charolais and will have the same performance as any other depending on the individual animal.
I personally love the breed and have not had anything that could even come close to compete with them on calf weaning weights.
Watch birthweight, when I was with the breed over 100 pound calves from our registered cows was very common. At those we considered anything under 100 as potential calving ease.
I think the breed has moderated its size, and birthweights and that could have also affected weaning weights too but the heterosis fromChars should still give a good boost of growth for crossbred calves.
Click to expand...
If you only have a commercial herd why not just go blank Charolais. I can get it if you are only breeding to sell registered Charolais stock but if your main goal is putting pounds under a black hide why not go with a single breed instead of one and done mixed breeds.
 
Ky hills said:
From what little I understand about it and I could be wrong but Charolais are essentially red they just have a double diluter gene. The red factors lack the double diluter. The red factors are still all Charolais and will have the same performance as any other depending on the individual animal.
I personally love the breed and have not had anything that could even come close to compete with them on calf weaning weights.
Watch birthweight, when I was with the breed over 100 pound calves from our registered cows was very common. At those we considered anything under 100 as potential calving ease.
I think the breed has moderated its size, and birthweights and that could have also affected weaning weights too but the heterosis from Chars should still give a good boost of growth for crossbred calves.
Click to expand...
Only problem I ever had with Chars is that damned dilute on black cattle. I remember though, in the 70's , a Char x Simm steer or heifer would win all the 4h /.FA shows, and they'd have some big calves that grew like crazy. My brother showed one every year, then turn in with my grandaddy's Angus herd. I remember them all having black baldy looking calves, though. Course back then, black wasn't bringing a premium. I still always have had in back of my mind, memories the night mare that was the 1st cow-killer Char bulls ( and SImms) that showed up around here in the 60's. Only use I saw until now for Char bulls, is they sure put the athleticism in bucking bulls!

I think these black Simm x Chi-angus heifers should be able to handle a good sized calf. Chianina used to, until about 10 years ago, require an animal be 15/16ths Chianina to be registered, but they have changed that now to 7/8th. You see a lot of registered Chianina that are black and polled. The Chi-angus bulls and cows he uses for these replacement heifers, barely make Chi-Angus. Probably most are at least 13/16ths Chianina. I suspect some of his cows, and at least one of his AI sires, are in fact registered pb Chianina. His main requirement is that they be homozygous black and polled, Same as his black Simms. Right now, I can't think of a Brahma influenced breed that would be better, growth wise, and certainly not another British or Continental.

I remember 20 something years ago, when I started getting those Brahma x Chianina cows from my client that was trying to develop his own line of bucking bulls. I used my neighbors polled Charolais on them, and those ladies raised some more big calves. I used to joke that if you could weigh one at sunrise and again at sundown, you'd probably see a 5 lb difference! I never had one of those Br x Chi cows have any problem at all calving those Char calves . Never assisted a single one in about 4-5 years of fooling with them.
 
Twisted said:
If you only have a commercial herd why not just go blank Charolais. I can get it if you are only breeding to sell registered Charolais stock but if your main goal is putting pounds under a black hide why not go with a single breed instead of one and done mixed breeds.
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I understand what you're saying, and if that's somebody's goal then it's fine.
My issue with the black Charolais concept is there isn't many of them anywhere and I'm not convinced the quality is there in quantity as there's only a few of them.
I looked a few years back at the website of a ranch that was marketing the black Charolais, I ne of the bulls they were promoting was painful to even look at. I've seen a lot of Charolais with a range of quality but that head on that black bull was not appealing at all.
Around here Charolais in general are pretty scarce now and this used to be Charolais country.
 
Ky hills said:
I understand what you're saying, and if that's somebody's goal then it's fine.
My issue with the black Charolais concept is there isn't many of them anywhere and I'm not convinced the quality is there in quantity as there's only a few of them.
I looked a few years back at the website of a ranch that was marketing the black Charolais, I ne of the bulls they were promoting was painful to even look at. I've seen a lot of Charolais with a range of quality but that head on that black bull was not appealing at all.
Around here Charolais in general are pretty scarce now and this used to be Charolais country.
Click to expand...
If you get a chance, and want to, would you look at that catalog from Lundgren I posted in the OP, and the one @RockinRB just posted above from I think a Craig's List ad ( still Lundgren, though)? How do you think those red bulls compare to the white? I am trying to figure out what there aren't more of them, if they perform as the whites do.
 
Warren Allison said:
If you get a chance, and want to, would you look at that catalog from Lundgren I posted in the OP, and the one @RockinRB just posted above from I think a Craig's List ad ( still Lundgren, though)? How do you think those red bulls compare to the white? I am trying to figure out what there aren't more of them, if they perform as the whites do.
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They look good to me. I don't know really why they haven't caught on more unless it's a traditional thing for a lot of people.
Like I said I've seen a few red ones around as far back as 30 years ago, had I stayed in registered Charolais it may have been something I would have sampled as I was hoping back then it would catch on.
I think the general thinking was at the time that Charolais were loosing out to black hided and the red cattle wouldn't really add any thing to a herd of white ones.
With the Red Bulls on black cows it might be on to something, although the smokes from the white bulls are fairly well received here.
 

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