Considering a Charolais bull again.

[Ky hills]

Phased out my registered Charolais herd over 25 years ago. At that time I swore I never have another one as I was pretty much broken hearted over the way it ended.
Over the years, since I've had a very few Char cross feeders and at one time bought a Char cross commercial cow as a one and done.
During the phasing out, I used Angus, and one Hereford bull on my registered Char cows. Really liked the crosses, kept a few of the Angus cross for cows, and had two real nice Hereford x Charolais heifers that I kind of wanted to keep, but at the time I was getting big into raising dairy calves and at one point sold all of my cows and sold those heifers too.
Always wondered how those heifers would have turned out. They were good framed light tan with mottled faces.
After having that surprise Char cross calf the other day, it's kind of broke the ice a little more about bringing in a Charolais bull again. I looked at one a few years ago but wasn't really impressed with that particular one.
I'm now thinking I may go look at some bulls from some longtime breeders in the area.
Our cows are all either Hereford, BWF, or commercial black all of which are red carriers.
I know that generally CharX are pretty well received around here especially the smoky or what we used to call mouse colored.
I'm figuring with a purebred Charolais bull we'd get quite a few tans and orange colored calves from the red cows and possibly from the black red carriers too.
I'm not as sure how they would sell, as there aren't many of that color around but thinking the added growth might offset the discount.
We are pretty much back to square one again on a bull, considering several different breed options from good reputation longtime breeders in the area and probably going to invest a little more into one to hopefully bring some more quality.
Wife's first choice is always Hereford but a while back she said maybe it was time to go back to Charolais.

 

[simme]

I know very little about Charolais genetics. But I would be concerned about Progressive Ataxia that seems to be in the breed now. I read recently that about 15% of the Charolais tested carry this defect, if I understood correctly. If you plan to retain any replacements, might should investigate.

"Progressive ataxia (PA) of Charolais cattle is characterized by onset of unsteady gait and stiff hind limbs with gradual worsening of the condition that results in an inability to stand and permanent recumbency (lying down). Other signs of the disease include head bobbing when excited and, in females, irregular pulsatile urination. Onset of the disease is typically around 18 months of age but can occur as early as 6 months or as late as 3-5 years. The evolution of the disease is also variable from a few weeks to more than 18 months from onset of signs."

 

[Logan52]

I like the Charolais crossed on red cows. For a time in the early 2000s I had a small herd of registered Red Polls. When I was done with that, I bought a Charolais bull from a friend to breed them too. Beautiful yellow or buckskin calves that sold well. I even kept a few to make cows but they just got too big for what I am wanting now and gave so much milk they developed bag problems by middle age. For a terminal cross it is a fine way to go.
We had a discussion on rat tails a while back on which I think we disagreed. On red cows you do not need to even worry about it like you do on black cows.

 

[kenny thomas]

Even though i have been using Simmental and SimAngus if i found a Charolais bull i like i would probably buy one.

 

[Ky hills]

I like the Charolais crossed on red cows. For a time in the early 2000s I had a small herd of registered Red Polls. When I was done with that, I bought a Charolais bull from a friend to breed them too. Beautiful yellow or buckskin calves that sold well. I even kept a few to make cows but they just got too big for what I am wanting now and gave so much milk they developed bag problems by middle age. For a terminal cross it is a fine way to go.
We had a discussion on rat tails a while back on which I think we disagreed. On red cows you do not need to even worry about it like you do on black cows.

I remember a discussion a while back about rat tails. My understanding is that it an issue with Charolais x Angus cattle.
I think that I said during that conversation with somebody that I had never heard anyone mention the rat tail condition during my time with the breed.
I did however see some advertisements for commercial bred heifer sales that specifically mentioned that the cattle were screened prior to sale for various things including rat tails. I think people thought I was trying to say rat tail wasn't significant or real which I wasn't, just that I never heard it brought up in any conversations amongst the Charolais folks of that time or in conversations with commercial customers.
Since learning about it, it has become a concern of mine too.
I'd say those Red Poll crosses would make some real nice cows. Used to be a few Red Polls around but haven't heard much about them for while

 

[Brute 23]

I remember a discussion a while back about rat tails. My understanding is that it an issue with Charolais x Angus cattle.
I think that I said during that conversation with somebody that I had never heard anyone mention the rat tail condition during my time with the breed.
I did however see some advertisements for commercial bred heifer sales that specifically mentioned that the cattle were screened prior to sale for various things including rat tails. I think people thought I was trying to say rat tail wasn't significant or real which I wasn't, just that I never heard it brought up in any conversations amongst the Charolais folks of that time or in conversations with commercial customers.
Since learning about it, it has become a concern of mine too.
I'd say those Red Poll crosses would make some real nice cows. Used to be a few Red Polls around but haven't heard much about them for while

I bought some cows from a guy that use to work for me. He turned over his lease and we basically bought him out. He use to run Char bulls so some of the cows that had been retained had Char influence. I put a Black Angus Bull in and got a rat tail the first go round. When I took it to the AB I got destroyed. According to the articles it has no effect on the animals but they still docked it like a Cor or LH. It was a big ol good looking calf too. If I would have known they were going to beat me up like that, I would have butchered it.

 

[gcreekrch]

I remember a discussion a while back about rat tails. My understanding is that it an issue with Charolais x Angus cattle.
I think that I said during that conversation with somebody that I had never heard anyone mention the rat tail condition during my time with the breed.
I did however see some advertisements for commercial bred heifer sales that specifically mentioned that the cattle were screened prior to sale for various things including rat tails. I think people thought I was trying to say rat tail wasn't significant or real which I wasn't, just that I never heard it brought up in any conversations amongst the Charolais folks of that time or in conversations with commercial customers.
Since learning about it, it has become a concern of mine too.
I'd say those Red Poll crosses would make some real nice cows. Used to be a few Red Polls around but haven't heard much about them for while

Buy a Char Bull with LOTS of hair to put on black cows. Rat tails are more of a Simmental Black Angus occurance but hairy bulls will lessen the problem.

 

[gcreekrch]

Wish you were closer ky hills

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjGqqeVxqSEAxVWHzQIHTcIB4cQFnoECBEQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2FTKcattlecompany%2F&usg=AOvVaw2pwOzXQzdfHL82bR5UQFDf&opi=89978449

 

[Ky hills]

Wish you were closer ky hills

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjGqqeVxqSEAxVWHzQIHTcIB4cQFnoECBEQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2FTKcattlecompany%2F&usg=AOvVaw2pwOzXQzdfHL82bR5UQFDf&opi=89978449

Good looking bulls there for sure.

 

[gcreekrch]

Good looking bulls there for sure.

Thet are great cattle from better people.

 

[Chubbychum]

We started our Red Angus herd by buying 25 head of heifers that were bred to Debruycker Charolais bulls. We never pulled a calf and those calves grew like crazy. There is a lot of variation within a breed but Debruyckers have it figured out.

Charolais Cattle For Sale in Dutton, MT | DeBruycker Charolais

DeBruycker Charolais cattle & bull breeders add profit to your herd. DeBruycker has been raising purebred Charolais for over 100 years.

www.debruyckercharolais.com

 

[Charbrangus]

I used a 1/2 Charolais 1/2 Brangus bull. Great bull over angus cows. All my calves grew well. I sold him last month. He was 6 and weighed 2300 lbs. Only reason I sold him is that I kept all of his heifers but 1 and will keep every heifer born out of him out of the next crop of calves. I replaced him with a 3/4 Simmental 1/4 Angus.
I always swore I would not have a Charolais bull after watching my neighbor growing up have to have the Vet to every cow he had that had a calf. They have done a lot for the breed. As big as my bull was I only pulled a couple of calves and that was as much my fault as it was the bulls, letting the breed at the wrong time of the year and extremely fat cows trying to have big calves.

 

[Ky hills]

I used a 1/2 Charolais 1/2 Brangus bull. Great bull over angus cows. All my calves grew well. I sold him last month. He was 6 and weighed 2300 lbs. Only reason I sold him is that I kept all of his heifers but 1 and will keep every heifer born out of him out of the next crop of calves. I replaced him with a 3/4 Simmental 1/4 Angus.
I always swore I would not have a Charolais bull after watching my neighbor growing up have to have the Vet to every cow he had that had a calf. They have done a lot for the breed. As big as my bull was I only pulled a couple of calves and that was as much my fault as it was the bulls, letting the breed at the wrong time of the year and extremely fat cows trying to have big calves.

With my registered cows back 25-30 some years ago weighing 1400-1800 and bulls that matured around 2500, I had some pretty big BW most calves were over 100 lbs a few as as big as 135. We had to pull a couple a year most times.
The most calves we pulled by a particular bull was actually one that sired calves in the 90-95 lb range pretty consistently. He was supposed to have been considered a heifer bull but was not and even gave sone trouble on cows too.
The majority of bulls we used were fairly good at calving ease considering the size of calves.
Generally our pulls from cows were breech or leg turned back.
We had some neighbors that had the old time Simmentals and our vet at the time was always telling us he was glad we didn't get into Simmentals. Once he told me he was glad when one of the neighbors quit using Simmental bulls.

 

[Chuckie]

Oh me the rat tail thing....... I have one cow that I call rat tailed. She has very little tail switch, but has a wonderful coat of hair. Tail is covered in hair thickly, but the switch needs more. She produces great calves with hair on their tails. Funny how when you go to a registered sale, they cut their tails short and I want to call tell them, Stop doing that! Leave their tails alone as it i there for a reason!! Let me send those that cut their tails off into wet area in Tennessee and make them not use OFF and swat mosquitoes and flies off all day long. That tail takes forever to grow back out.
Now I have a Piedmontese heifer, that I like a lot that has a rat tail. She has lots of hair, but bout 100 hairs coming out of the end of her tail. Will I send her down the road? No way. She has more hair on her body than her Mom does. Mom looks like velvet, and she looks like a wooly teddy bear. Something else is in the woodpile, but not sure what it is. It only takes a tiny percentage of something else to add the hair coat to these cattle. Add 1/4 Jersey cow to the mix and hair galore. More hair than the Jersey's carry for some reason.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Tail switch grows back quickly.
Some cattle just have thin tail switches. Has nothing to do with the Rat Tail.

 

[bird dog]

Are true rat tail cows more likely to have rat tail calves? I guess the bull matters some doesn't it?

Not knowing any better, I bought a older rat tailed cow once. She had that gray curly hair and a bull whip tail. Bred to angus bulls I had at the time. She was a good mama that had calves no different than any of the rest of the cheap ass cows I was running. Was I just lucky?

 

[Ky hills]

Here's a closer up of the calf out of the mottled face BWF cow.
He has curly hair for sure but looks to have a full coat.

 

[snakegap1]

Here's a closer up of the calf out of the mottled face BWF cow.
He has curly hair for sure but looks to have a full coat.View attachment 40848

rat tail for sure

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

rat tail for sure

And why would you say that? Just because he has kinky hair does not make him a rat tail.

 

[kenny thomas]

And why would you say that? Just because he has kinky hair does not make him a rat tail.

The buyers in this area would consider it a rat tail from the kinky hair and pay for it accordingly.