It is better to buy hay?

[TexasBred]

My problem with the liquid feed is they all advertise limiter this... limiter that but every one I know who feeds it ... its always more. Plus you have to have to keep those things in every pasture. When you move cattle your either leaving it behind or pumping it out. Then you get rain and there is $2K worth of liquid feed that is not needed just sitting there.

Heck man....that's your savings account. :mrgreen: :lol2: :lol2:

 

[Jogeephus]

Tubs are the way to go. I buy them religiously. Every spring I'll buy one and use it when we put up sweetcorn.

 

[Kingfisher]

Brute it doesn't matter where you operate it takes thirty pound's of forage to fill up a cow per day.
You have to have stockpiled grass, hay, browse, straw or something to fill up the cow. No matter how much hay you or I fed you had to have that forage available for the cattle not to loose condition . You can put a tub out or feed three pound's a day and that cow will walk herself to death searching for forage cause she is hungry.
You can satisfy a cow's nutrition needs on 3 pound's of feed a day you still need 27 pound's to fill her up. More if she is a wet cow. You can feed range meal for 300 a ton or tub's for 1800 a ton to get the protein. Liquid feed like Cattlelac is 400 dollar's a ton for 30 % protein. It boil's down to what you are paying a ton for protien. You can do the same thing with 300 dollar a ton range meal using salt as a limiter as you can with a tub.
I learned alot from this post. You described some things that are helping me. I think my cows may have been walking off some condition. They got a taste of that teen grass and it left in Brown Co as quick as it was looking good. I never heard of range meal until today but I suppose it will solve my problem of not being able to "cube" every day which is common in this region. I had to go to South Austin to buy some 3:1 15% " range lick" which I hope will fill in the gap for me. Mine was closer to $400 ton but im sure I can find an Acco dealer who I understand sells a Range meal.

You are buying convenience.

 

[Kingfisher]

Here we go again. I'm not typing all that again.....;(. Thanks for the info in your post. I think my cows are walking off some condition as you suggest they can do. I'm goinv to try to fill in tge gap with " Range meal". J bought some 3:1 15% today that's closer to $400 a ton bug I think I can find some better ( Acco Mills) for less. Thanks for your post.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Kingfisher this is a range meal feeder I built in the drought for 350 buck's.
It is on skid's so you can move it around.
It self feed's and hold's 2 ton's I bought the range meal 2-1-1 in super sack's.
One ton to the sack the roof on the feeder slides open, pick the super sack up with the tractor pull the string and dump's in the feeder.

 

[Caustic Burno]

King we have a feed mill at our feed store will blend what ever you want.
2-1-1 it 50% corn 25% cottonseed meal and 25 % salt as a limiter.
When they were consuming more than I wanted went to 1-1-1 33% corn 33% cottonseed meal and 33% salt .
With the feeder I can monitor pound's consumed and adjust the limiter on the next blend.

Edit King the 1-1-1 blend is actually more expensive as the highest cost is the cotton seed meal in the blend.
It is not much more as you have increased salt as well which virtually cost nothing compared to the corn and csm.

The reason I like range meal I can monitor pound's consumed and adjust the limiter to keep cow's in condition with crappy hay. With this type of feeder you don't have the boss cow fighting the shy girl's away.
They are going to eat so much and go get a drink and lay down.

 

[AndyL]

Reading this thread makes one wonder why some are in the cattle and hay business. If you're not doing it because you love doing it, just go punch a clock and make that mans money for him. If you're doing something you love doing and you pay your bills, what better life is there. Weather you buy your hay or make your own. I make my own, sell my own and custom bale. I don't see where buying hay is cheaper. It dose not take $75k tractores and $30k balers to make it all work. To each his own, and augering back and forth won't change a thing.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Reading this thread makes one wonder why some are in the cattle and hay business. If you're not doing it because you love doing it, just go punch a clock and make that mans money for him. If you're doing something you love doing and you pay your bills, what better life is there. Weather you buy your hay or make your own. I make my own, sell my own and custom bale. I don't see where buying hay is cheaper. It dose not take $75k tractores and $30k balers to make it all work. To each his own, and augering back and forth won't change a thing.

Andy that line of thinking is why we are disappearing everyday it is called welfare cattle, our profit margin's shrink and shrink because we are not keeping track of the dollar's. We keep working ourself to death so John Q Public can eat a cheaper steak. There is no free ride here. I agree there is no better life it still has to pay for itself. No matter how much you or I love it cost dollar's to do it.
I would venture the majority on this board spend more on having cow's each year than they bring in if they were honest with themself. Doubt there are many that even know's what it cost to keep Ole Belle standing in the pasture a day. Get a salebarn check of 10 grand and happy as dead pig in the sunshine they spent 15 grand to get it. I hear it is an investment, that only work's if it make's money! I hear it is a tax right off that is the biggest scheme they ever came up with. You spend dollar's to save pennies ,great deal you saved a penny if you needed the equipment.
That formula won't continue to work as it is the same one the US Government is using today.
Open an acount for the cow's put your salebarn check's in it and that is your operating capital most would be in the red .
It doesn't matter if you have 10 cow's or a 100 that animal has a yearly cost. The question is who is paying it.
Did the cow maintain herself along with everything it took to keep her, or is she on welfare in subsidized housing.

 

[Jogeephus]

Is it better to buy hay? I think it all depends on what you are doing and the amount you are doing and where you are doing it. Every region has its own set of resources which can be managed to keep the feed costs down and make the cows pay their way. The profitable producers identify their unfair advantages and utilize them but not everyone is in this to make a profit. Many just own cattle for tax reasons or just for the sake of owning cattle.

I think its interesting to see how others do things in different areas and this sometimes gives me ideas to try. What really intrigues me is how some can make false premises for themselves and actually believe them to be true and base their management decisions on these things in spite of all the information refuting their "facts".

To me, my main priority is reducing inputs both time and money. I'm a meat producer and not a seedstock producer so my main concern is getting each and every cow to wean a live calf. Calf growth rates are a low priority with me because when you look at the total herd's weaning weight the indivdual's growth rate has little meaning if each cow doesn't have a live calf by its side. I would much rather buy hay but buying hay only assures you that you will probably be buying filler that you have to supplement or not having hay or being gouged when things get tight. Supplementation costs money which then runs up the cost of your hay and if omitted only leads to reduced calving rates.

The only way I have found you can assure yourself of a high calving percentage and a low input cost is to grow the best forage you can grow and utilize this in the most efficient manner possible. How you utilize the forage is different from farm to farm or region to region. And I am also not saying you should fertilize every square foot of you property as this only leads to poor utilization. Its all a balancing act which is complicated by the whims of mother nature and its left to you to come up with what truly works in your location.

Bottom line is I think you need to be honest with yourself and use real facts and toss out the sharp pencil and use one with a little blunt to it to be sure you are operating on conservative figures and not fine tuned projections based on a perfect world. But this is only if you truly want to make a profit. If you don't, and all you want is some pretty fat cattle to grace your fields then pour the feed to them in tubs, bunks or the bag and I assure you they will be pretty and slick and will eat everything can afford to pour in front of them .... and then some.

I also think people should chart out their forage production by field and month. This will identify the weak months and then you can look at how best to fill these gaps in the most economical manner possible. Doing this will allow you to see the forest rather than fixating on the trees. JMO

 

[dun]

Is it better to buy hay? I think it all depends on what you are doing and the amount you are doing and where you are doing it. Every region has its own set of resources which can be managed to keep the feed costs down and make the cows pay their way. The profitable producers identify their unfair advantages and utilize them but not everyone is in this to make a profit. Many just own cattle for tax reasons or just for the sake of owning cattle.

I think its interesting to see how others do things in different areas and this sometimes gives me ideas to try. What really intrigues me is how some can make false premises for themselves and actually believe them to be true and base their management decisions on these things in spite of all the information refuting their "facts".

To me, my main priority is reducing inputs both time and money. I'm a meat producer and not a seedstock producer so my main concern is getting each and every cow to wean a live calf. Calf growth rates are a low priority with me because when you look at the total herd's weaning weight the indivdual's growth rate has little meaning if each cow doesn't have a live calf by its side. I would much rather buy hay but buying hay only assures you that you will probably be buying filler that you have to supplement or not having hay or being gouged when things get tight. Supplementation costs money which then runs up the cost of your hay and if omitted only leads to reduced calving rates.

The only way I have found you can assure yourself of a high calving percentage and a low input cost is to grow the best forage you can grow and utilize this in the most efficient manner possible. How you utilize the forage is different from farm to farm or region to region. And I am also not saying you should fertilize every square foot of you property as this only leads to poor utilization. Its all a balancing act which is complicated by the whims of mother nature and its left to you to come up with what truly works in your location.

Bottom line is I think you need to be honest with yourself and use real facts and toss out the sharp pencil and use one with a little blunt to it to be sure you are operating on conservative figures and not fine tuned projections based on a perfect world. But this is only if you truly want to make a profit. If you don't, and all you want is some pretty fat cattle to grace your fields then pour the feed to them in tubs, bunks or the bag and I assure you they will be pretty and slick and will eat everything can afford to pour in front of them .... and then some.

I also think people should chart out their forage production by field and month. This will identify the weak months and then you can look at how best to fill these gaps in the most economical manner possible. Doing this will allow you to see the forest rather than fixating on the trees. JMO

Excllent post and cuts pretty much through the BS

 

[shaz]

Yes, that pretty well summed it up.

If you here two cattlemen around here talking the conversation is about hay. The numbers they put up per cow are unreal and the feeding season is long no matter what.

Nobody talks about pasture? Guess what all their pastures look like.

 

[Brute 23]

Yes, that pretty well summed it up.

If you here two cattlemen around here talking the conversation is about hay. The numbers they put up per cow are unreal and the feeding season is long no matter what.

Nobody talks about pasture? Guess what all their pastures look like.

What do they look like?

 

[Tim/South]

We raise our own hay.
I can not buy quality hay for the price I can grow it.
I can not sell good hay for what I have in it. The best money I make in hay is feeding it to my cows.

 

[shaz]

Yes, that pretty well summed it up.

If you here two cattlemen around here talking the conversation is about hay. The numbers they put up per cow are unreal and the feeding season is long no matter what.

Nobody talks about pasture? Guess what all their pastures look like.

What do they look like?

Neglected. Some people spray but I haven't met anyone who manages grazing. I know a guy who spent 6K on feed last year.....
....he has 22 cows!!

 

[Caustic Burno]

Shaz that is what you call welfare cattle. If he spent that on feed what in the world did he spend on hay?
He has got 272 dollar's a head cost in feed alone he hasn't even started to cover his other expenses.
Most likely he think's he is making money as well.

 

[dun]

Today I'm going to go asgainst all of the advice and cut more hay. We've done too good of a job managing or pastures and since we sold most of the cows, even with 2 fields rented out There is no way we can graze all of the grass we've got. If I don;t bale it I'm going to have to brush hog it so I would rather have a usueable product from it even if I would have more in it with baling costs. Turned cows into a field 2 weeks ago and the cows spent the first day bellering cause they couldn;t find their calves in the tall grass. Now it's stillhard to get a head count the grass is so tall that the cows are impossible to see unless they happen to be next to the fence.

 

[LauraleesFarm]

Since it seems to be popular opinion that you'll only lose money if you bale hay, I expect not to hear any grumbling about buying hay this winter when the hayman wants $40 or 50 a roll. Apparently that is a breakeven price. So what happens when everyone quits baling hay because there is not any profit?

 

[Brute 23]

[
Neglected. Some people spray but I haven't met anyone who manages grazing. I know a guy who spent 6K on feed last year.....
....he has 22 cows!!

I bet he LOVES what he does, and that's what really counts

That goes on every where. Its here too. I have neighbors that feed 4-5 bales per year per head, plus liquid, and have those little cube buggies. They brag about getting $700-800 for the pretty big white calves while Im getting $6XX for a little Brahman influence. I can guarantee you I have a fraction of their input cost.

Once you start feeding cattle in the winter its hard to stop. They are standing at the gate waiting for you until spring. Hay is the worse. Once its out... they stop looking for any thing else. You put 5 bales in rings and they sit around it for several days, then you refill them again, its like trying to get some one off welfare after that.

 

[Brute 23]

How does this work? When people say a cow needs X amount of protien X amount of filler... If you have owned any kind of animal you know some are easy keepers and some aren't. How do those numbers play in to that?

As an example I have a dog that need 1/2 a scoop in the off season... 3/4 when she is hunting hard. The stays in excellent condition. I have other dogs of the same breed that reuire as much as 1-1.5 scoops to maintain the same condition.

How do things like that play in to the stats of what cattle need.

 

[Limomike]

Today I'm going to go asgainst all of the advice and cut more hay. We've done too good of a job managing or pastures and since we sold most of the cows, even with 2 fields rented out There is no way we can graze all of the grass we've got. If I don;t bale it I'm going to have to brush hog it so I would rather have a usueable product from it even if I would have more in it with baling costs. Turned cows into a field 2 weeks ago and the cows spent the first day bellering cause they couldn;t find their calves in the tall grass. Now it's stillhard to get a head count the grass is so tall that the cows are impossible to see unless they happen to be next to the fence.

dun, thats not a bad problem to have though. Mine is about that tall in places. Calves cant be seen standing up or layin down.
The herd is taking care of it pretty well though.