It is better to buy hay?

[inyati13]

A spin off of the fertilizer thread got me into this. I am going to start with the hypothesis that it is a breakeven point whether you buy your hay or produce it on you own land!!! Now I say that becasue of the cost involved in producing hay. The capital tied up in haying equipment and the cost of maintaining a productive hay field,i.e., fertilizer, crushed limestone, rotation, etc. One way or the other, you are either going to have to buy hay or you are going to have to buy fertilizer and/or crushed stone. Something has to come in for what goes out. I know this has already been studied in 10 different states but I want to know what the CT people think. Thanks.

 

[fargus]

I'll comment as a cow guy and the fertilizer salesman, seeing as I do both. When hay was cheap (3 cents/lb) and so was fertilizer, I'd have said you could probably do either, and be fine. When hay was still cheap, but fertilizer was climbing, skip the fertilizer and buy your neighbour's hay. Now that we have expensive hay (lots sold for 15 cents/lb around here last summer, and it's held it's value up to this point) I'd say inputs into your own crop pays. I can produce an 800 lb bale of hay for less than I can buy it for now. If I'm forced to buy in feed, it's likely going to be some combination of straw and by-products as I can feed a cow cheaper with those ingredients than with expensive dairy quality hay. If you can buy it for less than you can grow it, and import the fertility by way of purchased feed it's the obvious way to go. Unfortunately those economics don't work now like they did even 5 to 10 years ago.

 

[dun]

The neighbor and I discussed this just yesterday. There aren;t many custom balers left in this neck of the woods. No matter who you get hay from, aorund here anyway all you're doing is importing someone elses problems. Junk in the hay, a lot of weeds, questionable sotrage before buying, etc. We both prefer putting up our own hay simply becuase we know the quality of the hay, we know the guy that's doing the haying, when the weather co-operates we can jump on the haying provess rather then wait until the custom guy can get to us. Maintenance of the equipment and the hay gound are just part of the cost of doing business. When things go smoothly there is a real sense of satisfaction in making really good hay, when things go crappy (having to replace a twine pump) it's just one of those deals that's part of farming.

 

[tom4018]

People here roll anything they can to clean off a field, so a lot of stuff here is low quality. Also less ground to hay because of crops taking everything. I raise as much as I can myself using older equipment and buy some. I have a small trailer and not set up to haul much so I can end up with several dollars in hauling. Buying hay from people you don't know is a gamble, looked at some last night, I know the field and the guy. Hay took 2 inches of rain, still looked pretty decent for $28 a 5 x 5 roll just a couple miles away.

 

[pdfangus]

I agree with Fargus analysis of fertilizer costs....
but he did not go into equipment costs or labor costs.
price of the tractor today to do the job correctly_______________?
Price of support tractor to rake and do light work ______________?
Price of the rake and or tedder_____________?
Price of the baler ________________?
Price of bale moving equipment your system of choice ___________?
per hour cost of labor either yours or hired _____________?
Cost of seed lime and fertilizer and pesticides and application per acre_________________?
throw in the lost value in quality of ocassional rain on hay and delay in production____________?
I decided thirty years ago that I could not afford to make hay.
Now we are in an area where there is a thriving horse hay market and many producers have specialized in hay and straw production. I can buy good quality from them cheaper than I can make it....I can buy bottom bales and outside bales or lower quality for a substantial discount and they put it in my barn.
lately, since we downsized the herd, I have been providing bull service to my cousins herd in exchange for round bales of hay. He is happy with a good quality young registered bull at no cash outlay and I am happy with a few round bales of hay and he is feeding the bull....now he has a closed herd and raises replacement heifers and generally no health problems and half his cows he bought from me....more than that not that he is using my bulls and keeping heifers.

 

[dun]

This year we're renting out one of the hay fields to a neighbor to run some cows on. We still have a lot of hay left from last year and just want to make enough to refill the rest of the barn. Have another field I haven;t decided what we'll do with. Some years we graze it some years we hay it. Another small field we put up in small squares, enough to provide hay for the bull during his off season and enough for a sick cow in the sick pen if we need it. Sold the rest to a guy at 50 censt a bale off and he hauled and filled the barn with the squares. Have one trailer loaded and in the barn that he plans on picking up too. Young folks are sure handy to have available at times.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

When stored in a solid weatherproof structure what is the "shelf life" of a round bale? 5 years? Longer?

 

[John SD]

Everyone will soon be scrambling to put up hay here this year. Recent rains make it look like might be a decent cutting where you could barely see any green before.

I'm in the camp in favor of putting up your own hay. Carryover supply is money in the bank. In drought years, cost is prohibitive IF you can find any locally, or whether you have to buy hay from 300+ miles away. And what you buy in unknown quality until you feed it.

 

[John SD]

When stored in a solid weatherproof structure what is the "shelf life" of a round bale? 5 years? Longer?

I'd think a round bale kept under a roof would last indefintely, but probably lose Vit A content.

A few years ago I fed an old loose hay stack stacked with Farmhand. Stack was outdoors and at least 10 yrs old. Had shrunk down from what it used to be of course, but cows slicked it up like candy. Have no idea of nutritional content. Should have had it tested.

Still got a couple loose stacks out here. I can see over the top of them.

 

[Brute 23]

Its a tough deal because there are a lot of factors. If I had a dependable person to buy hay from every year I would do it in a heart beat. Even if it cost a little more. The risk associated with bailing your own with these drought conditions is high. Plus its time consuming... a lot of wear and tear... just a big hassel in general.

I have a guy who will haul hay for me with in a reasonable distance for $10 a bale. IF I have a tractor sitting there with the key in it he will unload and stack for the $10 also. He has seen lots of hay and I don't have to hold his hand. He will go check the hay out and if its good start hauling... if its nots... he comes back and I give him a couple bucks for his time.

With out him... it would not be near as easy.

 

[dcarp]

I think there are too many variables involved to give a firm answer. I just had this conversation with a new customer. I told him, IMHO, rotational grazing, with a years supply of hay stockpiled in a weatherproof structure would be the ideal choice. Buying hay would work IF you had a seller that had good quality hay, fair price and sufficient quantity. But all those things are subject to weather and supply. & demand. Five years ago round bales cost $30 now $50 during the hight of the draught $120 if you could find it.
This is one of those questions that doesn't have a perfect one size fits all solution. You have to look at all sides and decide which one is best for you. I like to control what my cattle eat and as much as possible be a self-sustaining operation. That being said I bale my own hay and I run a small custom baling business. My way may not be the best or cheapest way to go but then if I wanted to make a lot of money I'd be in the oil business not the cattle business. :bang:

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

My thoughts are to build enough covered storage to stockpile hay in years of plenty and feed as necessary during the wintertime and whenever grass is lean. I'm leaning towards buying hay rather than tying up land and machinery in growing our own. Right now we mostly put up our own hay but this year we can't find enough able hands to get the job done so consequently we've got standing grass losing nutritional value while we scramble to get it cut, raked, and rolled.

Very frustrating.

 

[bigbull338]

the truth is its a toss up as to buy hay or grow your own.now i can tell you our deal.we quit baling our own hay in 2000 because we sold the milk cows.an for 10yrs or so hired our hay baled.for the last 3yrs our baling cost got to the point its cheaper to buy equipment an bale our own hay from now own.an thats just what we did.now if you can buy good hay for less than $50 a bale an not go broke then id consider that.but you really have todo what best suits you.to get just the baling equipment new an used your looking at $30,000 to $35,000.we did the math an can pay that off in less than 7yrs.

 

[Stocker Steve]

If I'm forced to buy in feed, it's likely going to be some combination of straw and by-products as I can feed a cow cheaper with those ingredients than with expensive dairy quality hay. If you can buy it for less than you can grow it, and import the fertility by way of purchased feed it's the obvious way to go. Unfortunately those economics don't work now like they did even 5 to 10 years ago.

- Buying in by products seems like the best deal if you have a way to feed them as part of the ration.
- Feeding silage out of a pile is another option.
- Either approach should be cheaper than buying in good hay.

 

[Caustic Burno]

If you look at the intial investment of equipment will build a heck of a hay barn and put a lot of hay in it not counting the labor involved. I baled my own for year's, sold out in 2010 all my hay equipment and went to buying.
Couple of reason's health and the herd was getting downsized as the drought was getting started with an impact here.
The last year I baled I had 36 dollar's a roll in my own hay, fertilize, diesel, hay field lease's and part's not counting labor. Have a very reputable supplier for 50 dollar's a roll. I will gladly pay someone 14 dollar's a roll.

 

[fargus]

I agree with Fargus analysis of fertilizer costs....
but he did not go into equipment costs or labor costs.
price of the tractor today to do the job correctly_______________?
Price of support tractor to rake and do light work ______________?
Price of the rake and or tedder_____________?
Price of the baler ________________?
Price of bale moving equipment your system of choice ___________?
per hour cost of labor either yours or hired _____________?
Cost of seed lime and fertilizer and pesticides and application per acre_________________?
throw in the lost value in quality of ocassional rain on hay and delay in production____________?
I decided thirty years ago that I could not afford to make hay.
Now we are in an area where there is a thriving horse hay market and many producers have specialized in hay and straw production. I can buy good quality from them cheaper than I can make it....I can buy bottom bales and outside bales or lower quality for a substantial discount and they put it in my barn.
lately, since we downsized the herd, I have been providing bull service to my cousins herd in exchange for round bales of hay. He is happy with a good quality young registered bull at no cash outlay and I am happy with a few round bales of hay and he is feeding the bull....now he has a closed herd and raises replacement heifers and generally no health problems and half his cows he bought from me....more than that not that he is using my bulls and keeping heifers.

I didn't even touch that. Equipment and labour costs can be highly variable from operation to operation. We only put up 3-400 rolls a year, so we run old equipment that has long been paid for, and I would suggest my maintenance costs aren't tremendously higher than guys running newer equipment with lots of electronics. I also don't bale quite as fast, so my fuel and labour bill will be higher. It's pretty tough to nail those numbers down, it's more of a best guess. Going forward from here I expect us to continue to make some of our own hay as a hedge, and purchase the most economical feed source(s) to supplement that for over-wintering cows. We'll never hit a home run, but then we'll likely never get hosed completely either.

For us to cut, rake, bale and haul home from close by costs us $12-$15/bale. With the going price of standing hay around here, that puts us in the $45/bale range for cash costs. Still looking at a lot of hay that's going to cost $60-$80 to purchase, FOB the seller's yard. I'm sure when the corn price tanks and everybody and their dog seeds the marginal ground back to hay this will all change again. It's a good exercise to run through periodically just to make sure we're not doing things a certain way out of habit, instead of because it's the best way to do it.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

If you look at the intial investment of equipment will build a heck of a hay barn and put a lot of hay in it not counting the labor involved. I baled my own for year's, sold out in 2010 all my hay equipment and went to buying.
Couple of reason's health and the herd was getting downsized as the drought was getting started with an impact here.
The last year I baled I had 36 dollar's a roll in my own hay, fertilize, diesel, hay field lease's and part's not counting labor. Have a very reputable supplier for 50 dollar's a roll. I will gladly pay someone 14 dollar's a roll.

So you think I might be on the right track CB? Seems like is years of surplus a fella could really put hay back for the future if he had enough storage capacity.

 

[Brute 23]

There is not enough margin in hay to make me ever purchase my own equipment. That stuff is like owning a boat...... minus the fun part when it works.

 

[Caustic Burno]

If you look at the intial investment of equipment will build a heck of a hay barn and put a lot of hay in it not counting the labor involved. I baled my own for year's, sold out in 2010 all my hay equipment and went to buying.
Couple of reason's health and the herd was getting downsized as the drought was getting started with an impact here.
The last year I baled I had 36 dollar's a roll in my own hay, fertilize, diesel, hay field lease's and part's not counting labor. Have a very reputable supplier for 50 dollar's a roll. I will gladly pay someone 14 dollar's a roll.

So you think I might be on the right track CB? Seems like is years of surplus a fella could really put hay back for the future if he had enough storage capacity.

There is no right or wrong here it is about what is right for you.
Remember don't store it all together.
Just have to pencil it out. If you buy a decent used baler,cutter along rake's you are going to have 15,000 minimum.
That is 300 bales to start off. Hay equipment never break's down in the shade and part's are alway's readily available :lol: and you can beat your ass there will be black cloud's on the horizon.
When I was baleing before herd reduction I had a little bird's nest . Several small field's from the house leased that the big boy's didn't want to mess with. All where within a couple miles of the house. Baled enough for me and sold enough to buy the fertilizer. Since herd reduction to around 15 momma cow's makes no sense to maintain along with the expense of the equipment.

 

[TexasBred]

So you think I might be on the right track CB? Seems like is years of surplus a fella could really put hay back for the future if he had enough storage capacity.

TT I've always bought my hay even when we dairied. Be dam if I'm going to tie up that much money in hay equipment to use it 3 times a year when the guy down the road that raises hay for a living can put up better hay than I ever could. A good moisture tester and a good laboratory for testing can ensure that you're getting hay that is what you're looking for and worth what you're paying. If I raise it myself I have to feed what I got. A good barn is worth it's weight in gold although we stacked a lot of hay and covered it completely with poly.