It is better to buy hay?

[Brute 23]

I have a couple that do the same thing Stocker Steve. They draw in to a certain point but have great bags on them and raise big calves. They breed back on time so I don't mess with them. From what I can tell its an appearance deal. Pull the calf off and they explode back to great condition.

They only cost you more money Caustic if you feed them more. They get the same as the rest and I just let them do their thing. Now are they eating more grass than another cow... Idk the answer to that.



Talking about feeds. The issue with a lot of feeds such as hay, bulk feed, or evey liquid feed is its very hard to regulate. Hay may be cheaper but you have to feed #1000 at a time. Same thing with bulk or liquid feed. Your 3,4,5 tons in before you figure out they are eating more that #X amount per day. You drop thousands of dollars to fill a liquid feeders go back in a week and its gone. They aren't going to refund you because the cattle ate more than the label says.

Its like buying those monster packs of ketchup at Sams. Its cheaper.. but do you need that much ketchup... do you use more ketchup because there is more sitting there? :???:

 

[Caustic Burno]

:deadhorse:

 

[TexasBred]

I have a couple that do the same thing Stocker Steve. They draw in to a certain point but have great bags on them and raise big calves. They breed back on time so I don't mess with them. From what I can tell its an appearance deal. Pull the calf off and they explode back to great condition.

They only cost you more money Caustic if you feed them more. They get the same as the rest and I just let them do their thing. Now are they eating more grass than another cow... Idk the answer to that.



Talking about feeds. The issue with a lot of feeds such as hay, bulk feed, or evey liquid feed is its very hard to regulate. Hay may be cheaper but you have to feed #1000 at a time. Same thing with bulk or liquid feed. Your 3,4,5 tons in before you figure out they are eating more that #X amount per day. You drop thousands of dollars to fill a liquid feeders go back in a week and its gone. They aren't going to refund you because the cattle ate more than the label says.

Its like buying those monster packs of ketchup at Sams. Its cheaper.. but do you need that much ketchup... do you use more ketchup because there is more sitting there? :???:

Do you really thing CB does all that calculating, worrying, culling etc. etc. etc. ?? lolol. That's why I say just look at the herd as a whole. You hit the nail on the head when you said the thin cow will regain condition once you pull the calf off. Like a skinny dog, they gain weight pretty fast when there is no pressure on them. Now if the calf is worthless I'd probably cull but like I said, it's hard to split hairs about feed intake when you're feeding by the bale or the bag. I like to make money but not at the cost of shortening my life with worry and chasing my tail just to make 10% more.

Best Wishes.

 

[dun]

Decided to brushhog rather then mow and bale. It used to be about half fescue and half clover. The drought last year really ahmmerd the clover so now it's about half fescue and half weed (miners lettuce and mares tail). When it respouts I'll spray with Grazon and this fall/winter frost seed clover.

 

[Stocker Steve]

Do you really thing CB does all that calculating, worrying, culling etc. etc. etc. ?? lolol. That's why I say just look at the herd as a whole. You hit the nail on the head when you said the thin cow will regain condition once you pull the calf off. Like a skinny dog, they gain weight pretty fast when there is no pressure on them. Now if the calf is worthless I'd probably cull but like I said, it's hard to split hairs about feed intake when you're feeding by the bale or the bag. I like to make money but not at the cost of shortening my life with worry and chasing my tail just to make 10% more.
Best Wishes.

I have enough Herf and Hard Cull'in into the herd now that I very seldom have an open or dry cow. Calf crop this year is over 100% if you count the bottle calf twin. :nod: I am looking forward to some more Hard Cull'in this fall because I expect hay to high priced. I think the kind of calf will be a big factor for ugly cows that don't thrive on meadow hay and corn stover. Nice calf no harm no foul - - average or less calf and she' gone.

 

[shaz]

Sounds like we're all doing the same thing.

 

[Caustic Burno]

I have a couple that do the same thing Stocker Steve. They draw in to a certain point but have great bags on them and raise big calves. They breed back on time so I don't mess with them. From what I can tell its an appearance deal. Pull the calf off and they explode back to great condition.

They only cost you more money Caustic if you feed them more. They get the same as the rest and I just let them do their thing. Now are they eating more grass than another cow... Idk the answer to that.



Talking about feeds. The issue with a lot of feeds such as hay, bulk feed, or evey liquid feed is its very hard to regulate. Hay may be cheaper but you have to feed #1000 at a time. Same thing with bulk or liquid feed. Your 3,4,5 tons in before you figure out they are eating more that #X amount per day. You drop thousands of dollars to fill a liquid feeders go back in a week and its gone. They aren't going to refund you because the cattle ate more than the label says.

Its like buying those monster packs of ketchup at Sams. Its cheaper.. but do you need that much ketchup... do you use more ketchup because there is more sitting there? :???:

Do you really thing CB does all that calculating, worrying, culling etc. etc. etc. ?? lolol. That's why I say just look at the herd as a whole. You hit the nail on the head when you said the thin cow will regain condition once you pull the calf off. Like a skinny dog, they gain weight pretty fast when there is no pressure on them. Now if the calf is worthless I'd probably cull but like I said, it's hard to split hairs about feed intake when you're feeding by the bale or the bag. I like to make money but not at the cost of shortening my life with worry and chasing my tail just to make 10% more.

Best Wishes.

Actually I do I am very anal on herd condition, health and cost.
After losing all my cow's to bang's when the state started testing.
There is nothing like getting one positive and the whole herd quarantined for three month's and the positive branded with a B on the jaw. Three month's later the state vet would come out one or two more would test positive and we would start all over again. Nothing finer than getting thirty or forty dollar's for a thousand pound cow. After nine month's of quarantine not being able to sell anything except for slaughter. When you ran any through the it has to called out in the auction barn . This cow is out of a Bang's quarantined herd even if the cow didn't have a B when the auctioneer call's out for slaughter only you should just watch the bid's make you want to throw up.
After nine month's I was out of the cow business I just didn't have deep enough pockets to keep them afloat and was crazy for even trying. I tried like he!!
Only I could get lucky enough to get my herd quarantined here a few year's ago by being one of the lucky people picked in the state lottery to be certified TB free.
That only took two months to get all sorted out and they were certified TB free.
BCS is a very valuable tool am I very anal about. I am totally comvinced in my little mind it saved my ass the second time.
This has been known for year's just one article on the subject.
http://www.progressivecattle.com/index. ... Itemid=159

 

[TexasBred]

A good friend who owned a dairy all his life over in East Texas got quarantined one time. Was bringing holsteins in from out of state non vaccinated and no paperwork. "midnight specials". The rest of his career in the business he kept a cow ear nailed to the front door of his office building with that bangs clip in it to remind him to never buy one again without that clip and if it came from out of state have it retested.

 

[Caustic Burno]

A good friend who owned a dairy all his life over in East Texas got quarantined one time. Was bringing holsteins in from out of state non vaccinated and no paperwork. "midnight specials". The rest of his career in the business he kept a cow ear nailed to the front door of his office building with that bangs clip in it to remind him to never buy one again without that clip and if it came from out of state have it retested.

I got hammered when the state started testing along with a whole bunch of other boy's.
There wasn't a bang's vaccine when this started the state was irradicating it through slaughter.
He!! we didn't even know what it was. There was a lot of cattleman that found out in 1972 might have been 71.
Heck we didn't even feed hay in the winter cow had to survive on her own in that salt grass and a lot didn't.
Talk about pee poor mangement we had the blue ribbon back then.
Talk about a crash course in herd health mangement that stick's that will do it.

 

[runningr]

Forgot to add Brute not all protein is created equal.
What is in your tub if it is urea it build's a fire in their belly making them hustle forage even more digestability comes into the equation as well. If you don't have it the will walk off more condition or consume more hay.
CSM is the best source of protein and fat for the dollar almost 100% digestable as well.
It is 24% protein don't remeber the fat content off the top of my head.
You can't go crazy with CSM as it can cause issue's as well.
Brute I am not smart enough I guess to explain this well, TB would be a better resource than me and maybe will chime in.
It is a system that has to be in balance. protein, fat and digestability.
Next is the efficiency of the cow on your feed.
Brute it doesn't matter on the 30 pound's that is what it takes to fill up the cow.
The quality of the thirty pound's decide's condition.

Where are you getting 24% csm? Is that the protien of the total mix? CSM is either 38% pr 41% depending on how it was processed, ddg is also a good source and has 28-30% protien and 10% fat, and is typically cheaper.

 

[JSCATTLE]

I can not find the same quality of hay that I produce for my self . To me if I can grow 13 to 15 cp hay . Or buy 9 % cp hay from someone who claims it's fertalized and feed out of a sack . Ill grow my own . I cut my hay field every 28 days . Weather permitting . A custom baler won't cut it that soon . If you let the grass go for 6 weeks with out cutting it you might as well not waist your money on fertalizer . With bringing in hay you also bring in weed seeds . Spraying is another cost as is time spraying . Last year I put up 270 rolls of hay off 18 acres in 4 cuttings . My cows gained weight on it . I still have 150 rolls from last year in the barn . I plant ryegrass every year and put layer litter on the ryegrass pasture . I spent 8500 dollars last year on fertalizer diesel and seed for hay and ryegrass . Other than salt and mineral that was my input cost . I paid my hay equipment off last year from custom baling . I no longer custom bale . It might not work for everyone but to me you can't buy junk hay and then feed from a sack and come out ahead . Cows don't do as well on feed as they do on forage .

 

[Caustic Burno]

Forgot to add Brute not all protein is created equal.
What is in your tub if it is urea it build's a fire in their belly making them hustle forage even more digestability comes into the equation as well. If you don't have it the will walk off more condition or consume more hay.
CSM is the best source of protein and fat for the dollar almost 100% digestable as well.
It is 24% protein don't remeber the fat content off the top of my head.
You can't go crazy with CSM as it can cause issue's as well.
Brute I am not smart enough I guess to explain this well, TB would be a better resource than me and maybe will chime in.
It is a system that has to be in balance. protein, fat and digestability.
Next is the efficiency of the cow on your feed.
Brute it doesn't matter on the 30 pound's that is what it takes to fill up the cow.
The quality of the thirty pound's decide's condition.

Where are you getting 24% csm? Is that the protien of the total mix? CSM is either 38% pr 41% depending on how it was processed, ddg is also a good source and has 28-30% protien and 10% fat, and is typically cheaper.

I have no clue other than my itty bitty brain inverted the number's. I do that quite often I am real bad with phone number's. Have a ll the right numbers just won't put them in the right order.

 

[Caustic Burno]

I can not find the same quality of hay that I produce for my self . To me if I can grow 13 to 15 cp hay . Or buy 9 % cp hay from someone who claims it's fertalized and feed out of a sack . Ill grow my own . I cut my hay field every 28 days . Weather permitting . A custom baler won't cut it that soon . If you let the grass go for 6 weeks with out cutting it you might as well not waist your money on fertalizer . With bringing in hay you also bring in weed seeds . Spraying is another cost as is time spraying . Last year I put up 270 rolls of hay off 18 acres in 4 cuttings . My cows gained weight on it . I still have 150 rolls from last year in the barn . I plant ryegrass every year and put layer litter on the ryegrass pasture . I spent 8500 dollars last year on fertalizer diesel and seed for hay and ryegrass . Other than salt and mineral that was my input cost . I paid my hay equipment off last year from custom baling . I no longer custom bale . It might not work for everyone but to me you can't buy junk hay and then feed from a sack and come out ahead . Cows don't do as well on feed as they do on forage .

Space Cowboy just because someone else bales it doesn't make it junk. Lot of good custom bailer's out there.
I still get my hay one off the same field's I baled for year's. I just don't have any of the headache's.
I baled plenty of junk hay of my own in the year's leading up to the drought. In 2004 I don't know how much junk hay I baled that was the year we got 99 inches of rain. Lot of factor's go into to hay quality besides owning the equipment.

There is no right or wrong answer here.
Anyone running 50 head or under can't make this pencil out unless they are bailing for other people as well.
I know I did it for year's and my own hay the last year I bailed had 36 dollar's a roll in it three year's ago.
Just because you have your own eqipment doesn't guarantee you hay either as a whole bunch of people found out in 2010/2011.

 

[runningr]

I do both but with putting a pencil to it you are by far better off buying, for example i need to fertilize 40 acres for hay rigjt now using 32% nsol(cheapest n source) at 30gal its gonna cost me $26 a roll in nitrogen if I get 3 rolls weather permiting they are 4x6, that not counting potash applied this fall or the spraying, baleling, cutting or raking. On the other hand here you can buy excellent hay for 70-90 a ton i cant produce it that cheap plus you can turn hayfields into pasture and therefore have more money generatingvs. A dead expence, which is what equipment is the only reason most of us bale hay is because we have to because that is what we have always done.

 

[dun]

Friends of ours decided they could increase their herd size by buying hay instead of cutting it. Last year they paid over 100 bucks a 4x5 bale delivered they had to get it from MS. Crappy hay and they had to feed supplement along with it. They aren;t too thrilled with the buying hay concept, but they also don;t want to go back to rqaising/cutting their own. I told them if they cut down on the herd size and stockpiled some forage they could avoid having to buy it every year. They definitely weren't thrilled with my suggestion either.

 

[JSCATTLE]

I didn't mean that it was junk hay just because someone else bailed it . It's just like Craigslist bulls people think what they have is great and don't really know what they have . Just because they pass by a field with a fertalizer hopper doesn't mean they put any on it . I would rather spend 30 a roll on my own hay than 35 to buy hay that I know doesn't have 30 dollars worth of fertalizer on it .. If someone is selling hay for 35 or 40 a roll they are losing money .

 

[Banjo]

Friends of ours decided they could increase their herd size by buying hay instead of cutting it.

Last year they paid over 100 bucks a 4x5 bale delivered they had to get it from MS. Crappy hay and they had to feed supplement along with it. They aren;t too thrilled with the buying hay concept, but they also don;t want to go back to rqaising/cutting their own. I told them if they cut down on the herd size and stockpiled some forage they could avoid having to buy it every year. They definitely weren't thrilled with my suggestion either.

that idea is doable IMO but they would need to be doing IRG. Under continuous grazing they will just keep it...the previous hayfield.....picked down too unless they are just way under stocked

 

[dun]

Friends of ours decided they could increase their herd size by buying hay instead of cutting it.

Last year they paid over 100 bucks a 4x5 bale delivered they had to get it from MS. Crappy hay and they had to feed supplement along with it. They aren;t too thrilled with the buying hay concept, but they also don;t want to go back to rqaising/cutting their own. I told them if they cut down on the herd size and stockpiled some forage they could avoid having to buy it every year. They definitely weren't thrilled with my suggestion either.

that idea is doable IMO but they would need to be doing IRG. Under continuous grazing they will just keep it...the previous hayfield.....picked down too unless they are just way under stocked

They were and are doing MIG, but drought bit them in the butt pretty well.

 

[1982vett]

I do believer many have been brainwashed (by every Tom, Dick, and Harry selling to the masses) into believing fertilizer will grow grass on a parking lot....for some ground, it's best useful purpose IS a parking lot.

 

[dun]

I do believer many have been brainwashed (by every Tom, Dick, and Harry selling to the masses) into believing fertilizer will grow grass on a parking lot....for some ground, it's best useful purpose IS a parking lot.

That's known as succesfull marketing!