Gimme your thoughts on Lowline

[robert]

Robert, my goal wasn't to step on any toes; I'm only reporting what I have seen. Would you mind letting me know of some NY seedstock producers selling animals that are bred for what I'm aiming to accomplish? I have seen a few NY'ers on here who raise some gorgeous, monstrous animals but who just don't fit what I'm going for. When I say high-efficiency animals, I just mean what All Forage said so much better. I'm looking for cows that can sustain themselves and look good on decent grass and hay only, and throw calves that truly finish out instead of just eventually "get heavy enough"

we do, I'm not trying to use this forum as a sales pitch but we raise our cattle in exactly the same way you are describing, grass (through mig and rotational grazing) and hay. Heifers that don't get bred or are rejected from the breeding program are easily finished off grass at 17 to 20 months of age, we'll usually hit them with shell corn for the last 30 to 45 days just because our customers prefer corn fed beef but it is not necessary from a finishing point of view. We have great demand for our steer calves so they leave as weaned/vaccinated/backgrounded in the fall. Most of them are being finished for natural beef programs in New England. Personally I think the 1100 lb cow in the northeast is a myth unless you absolutely suck all the growth out of them, our pastures are usually too lush, too abundant for cows not to mature into 1300 - 1400lb cows. Disposition, fertility, do-ability and marketability. After that it's all gravy. From your description you've got to be up near the edge of the tughill, Oneida county area?

 

[artesianspringsfarm]

Robert,

Please dont mind tooting your own horn a bit because I'm genuinely interested and maybe I should be stopping by with a checkbook? I am in Oswego County, North of Oneida. Also, from what little I have seen, I understand what you mean about the ability of our pastures in this area to put lbs. on any frame size, thats why I want to stay away from anything too huge. If you'd like to shoot me a PM if you are interested in talking more, please do. Btw, what does your breeding program look like as far as breed and lines?

 

[M.Magis]

Let me ask what might be a stupid question, how many operations out there aren't grass based? I'm sure there are some out there, but I'm not sure I know of any. I guess I don't understand the idea that you have to use some sort of novelty breed to raise cattle on grass. If one breed did it better, they wouldn't be a novelty. We'd all be using them. Am I missing something?

 

[Engler]

We have a handful of 3/4 to pb lowline cows running with the commercials. 3/4s were bred to lbw angus bull and spit the calve right out this year, think they'll fit in with the small end of commercials. Pures were bred pure for the bil's hobby deal.

Easy keeping, not near as hard on stuff due to smaller size. Put a couple of steers in the freezer and the steaks are silly good, but that was corn fed. If you've got an outlit for them, something to look at.

 

[djinwa]

Let me ask what might be a stupid question, how many operations out there aren't grass based? I'm sure there are some out there, but I'm not sure I know of any. I guess I don't understand the idea that you have to use some sort of novelty breed to raise cattle on grass. If one breed did it better, they wouldn't be a novelty. We'd all be using them. Am I missing something?

We're talking about how the calves are finished for slaughter.

Of course, all the cow-calf guys operate primarily on grass, but most of the calves are sold to a feedlot, where they are primarily fattened on grain or other carbohydrate.

As opposed to those who fatten calves on mostly roughage, which might take a different kind of animal.

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Galloways1]

[

Yes, Highland and Galloway do have a slower growing and leaner carcass, just depends if lean is the goal.
I agree, the Angus and Hereford breeds are champion breeds to have marbled grass finished beef.

If you buy SLOW GROWTH genetics, you will experience this. Comparing Galloways to Highlands and Lowlines is apples to oranges, and shows a little too much ignorance of the breed . If your experience with Galloways was with 1960 style genetics, I apologize. The people using those genetics today have done the breed no favors. Those cattle were slow growth puds then and the best thing that could have happened was for the nitrogen to have run out on the tanks...

Yes some got to be 1200 lbs, it just took them 2-3 years, or more.

Harley Blegen

 

[Taurus]

[

Yes, Highland and Galloway do have a slower growing and leaner carcass, just depends if lean is the goal.
I agree, the Angus and Hereford breeds are champion breeds to have marbled grass finished beef.

If you buy SLOW GROWTH genetics, you will experience this. Comparing Galloways to Highlands and Lowlines is apples to oranges, and shows a little too much ignorance of the breed . If your experience with Galloways was with 1960 style genetics, I apologize. The people using those genetics today have done the breed no favors. Those cattle were slow growth puds then and the best thing that could have happened was for the nitrogen to have run out on the tanks...

Yes some got to be 1200 lbs, it just took them 2-3 years, or more.

Harley Blegen

To be fair, most galloways are not exactly known for their fast growth and the galloways are comparable to highlands in terms of growth rate...just speaking from personal experiences.

 

[glacierridge]

[

Yes, Highland and Galloway do have a slower growing and leaner carcass, just depends if lean is the goal.
I agree, the Angus and Hereford breeds are champion breeds to have marbled grass finished beef.

If you buy SLOW GROWTH genetics, you will experience this. Comparing Galloways to Highlands and Lowlines is apples to oranges, and shows a little too much ignorance of the breed . If your experience with Galloways was with 1960 style genetics, I apologize. The people using those genetics today have done the breed no favors. Those cattle were slow growth puds then and the best thing that could have happened was for the nitrogen to have run out on the tanks...

Yes some got to be 1200 lbs, it just took them 2-3 years, or more.

Harley Blegen

I know you have EXCEPTIONAL stock, as does a friend of mine with Highlands out of Chippewa Falls... sadly, I don't think most folks work as hard as you guys to have their stock to your caliber.
I did not mean this directly at you, I know a number of people who raise these breeds aren't as passionate as you to have such esteemed genetics and cattle.
BTW, I am a fan of these breeds and I'm currently waiting on a November half breed calf out of one of our best mommas

 

[glacierridge]

I know there is a difference in the breeds, but they could be a good climate option, without excessively large frames.

I'm not trying to compare apples to oranges, just offering ideas.
Just saying there are more breeds than Angus and Herefords out there.
Not all breeds are the same or have the same characteristics, I think they all have their purpose or they wouldn't be around.

 

[Taurus]

If you buy SLOW GROWTH genetics, you will experience this. Comparing Galloways to Highlands and Lowlines is apples to oranges, and shows a little too much ignorance of the breed . If your experience with Galloways was with 1960 style genetics, I apologize. The people using those genetics today have done the breed no favors. Those cattle were slow growth puds then and the best thing that could have happened was for the nitrogen to have run out on the tanks...

Yes some got to be 1200 lbs, it just took them 2-3 years, or more.

Harley Blegen

I know you have EXCEPTIONAL stock, as does a friend of mine with Highlands out of Chippewa Falls... sadly, I don't think most folks work as hard as you guys to have their stock to your caliber.
I did not mean this directly at you, I know a number of people who raise these breeds aren't as passionate as you to have such esteemed genetics and cattle.
BTW, I am a fan of these breeds and I'm currently waiting on a November half breed calf out of one of our best mommas

She is right, you have EXCEPTIONAL Galloway stock, far from being average galloways that everyone is used to. I would love to have red Galloway cows that you showed me in pictures. There are more poor quality galloways and highlands out than the exceptional quality galloways/highlands and that may be difficult to find these quality animals. Just like the Belted Galloways which is a victim for being ruined by the people who aren't as passionate or doesn't try to correct their faults.

 

[Rahe Family Belties]

Gotta agree that a large number of breeders do not address problems with growth and structure. Too many folks trying to breed minis or pets rather than livestock.

That being said, the good ones are very good and grow well on grass and/or grain diets. Just sold a bull calf weighing 680 at 205. Keeping another for my next herd bull that weighs 676 at 205. Actual weights out of 14 and 15 year old full sisters.

Beltie beef often sells privately for $6-10 per pound for a quarter or half beef. Makes sense, even if they grow a little slower than some other breeds.

Murray Grays may also fill your bill, especially Square Meater cattle.

Good luck!

 

[artesianspringsfarm]

Rahe Family,

Where ya from and got any pics of your herd? What's your feed program?

 

[Rahe Family Belties]

We are located in Western Illinois.

I wanted to grow the bulls as much as possible as they were show bulls. Calves were weaned early and put on a ration of about 40% rolled corn, 40% whole oats and 20% corn gluten and protein .
It figured to be about 12% protein. They were fed about 10 pounds of this grain mix per day. Hay was free choice.
These would eat more grain but I have found you must be careful feeding grain to Belties or you can ruin their feet.

I had two Beltie steers on the same ration (about 16-18 pounds of grain and hay). One gained 3.2 pounds and the other 2.8 on a 152 day feed period. Carcasses were lean but graded choice. I received a premium over my other Angus and crossbred steers.

I will try to post some pix but have had little luck here.

 

[AllForage]

I would like to clarify a few statements. As an actual grass fed producer and marketer I have observed a few things. I believe all of these minor breeds have their place given the right feed and climate. Galloways for me did not work out. No matter if I had "60's" animals or not. If I had lower quality feed coupled with abundant shade and more acreage then yes. Humidity and not shedding until 2 or older created misery all summer as well as mud holes around waterers. My experience with high growth animals on an all grass slaughter system is that they are very lean at processing mostly due to larger frames. (I actually prefer moderate growth) I did not see better marbling until I made baldies out of them with my bulls. When a customer is paying high dollars for meat that they believe to be higher in CLA's and omega 3's you bet your rear end there better be some marbling. They are in the fats. Lean grass fed is a problem. Most studies that produce the opposite results are always the cross of continentals with british and slaughtered too young.

The next issue here is the question that the OP presented about replacing his stock. Please go shopping for all the minor breeds that have been suggested. He will never crawl out of the financial hole even selling high dollar niche beef. Next please give me an example of any these breeds utilizing long term linebreeding to insure prepotency and consistency. THE most important aspect of a grass fed program is a consistent product while attempting to use genetics with management to increase marbling while maintaining adequate hanging weights. Also culling is not a long term plan to a consistent cowherd. With direct marketing it's damage financially can be minimized, but one needs the ability to regenerate good replacements. Sorry but outcrossing is too much of a crapshoot in this business.

I have said this before, one needs to observe what a true line bred bull can produce to believe it. Couple this with a closed birth to slaughter marketing plan and life gets a lot easier.

 

[inyati13]

I would like to clarify a few statements. As an actual grass fed producer and marketer I have observed a few things. I believe all of these minor breeds have their place given the right feed and climate. Galloways for me did not work out. No matter if I had "60's" animals or not. If I had lower quality feed coupled with abundant shade and more acreage then yes. Humidity and not shedding until 2 or older created misery all summer as well as mud holes around waterers. My experience with high growth animals on an all grass slaughter system is that they are very lean at processing mostly due to larger frames. (I actually prefer moderate growth) I did not see better marbling until I made baldies out of them with my bulls. When a customer is paying high dollars for meat that they believe to be higher in CLA's and omega 3's you bet your rear end there better be some marbling. They are in the fats. Lean grass fed is a problem. Most studies that produce the opposite results are always the cross of continentals with british and slaughtered too young.

The next issue here is the question that the OP presented about replacing his stock. Please go shopping for all the minor breeds that have been suggested. He will never crawl out of the financial hole even selling high dollar niche beef. Next please give me an example of any these breeds utilizing long term linebreeding to insure prepotency and consistency. THE most important aspect of a grass fed program is a consistent product while attempting to use genetics with management to increase marbling while maintaining adequate hanging weights. Also culling is not a long term plan to a consistent cowherd. With direct marketing it's damage financially can be minimized, but one needs the ability to regenerate good replacements. Sorry but outcrossing is too much of a crapshoot in this business.

I have said this before, one needs to observe what a true line bred bull can produce to believe it. Couple this with a closed birth to slaughter marketing plan and life gets a lot easier.

Good read, thoughtful.