Counting Your Money

[greybeard]

Lucky, when it comes to profit versus and including contentment, I'm always reminded of a line early in the movie Citizen Kane.
"Well, it's no trick to make a lot of money if all you want to do is make a lot of money."

IMO, if a man is only interested in making money with cows, he's in the wrong business.

I always heard you ain't a Texan until you've lost your ass in cattle, and not a REAL Texan until you lost your butt in both oil and cattle.

 

[Brute 23]

Well Technically it was close to a break even. Could you have done better elsewhere, possibly but who knows for sure. People get rich and go broke in the stock market every day. Land is a good steady safe investment. What's the avg return of the stock market 4-5% over a 15yr period? You're barely keeping up with inflation. Plus you can't run cattle and enjoy life on stock tickets, unless of course you use the earnings which defeats the purpose. It's best to play both I'd say. Whats the rule, 40% stocks, 40% real estate, 20% savings or something like that. I'm definitely no financial genius.

This thread is fixing to go off the rails.

You should do some more research on investing in the stock market before you knock it. You are missing out on some of the easiest money you will ever make in your life. There is nothing like it.

There is no better feeling than checking cattle and looking at your phone and you are up $30K... at no cost... no time... no labor... nothing to you.

The only people that go broke in the stock market were taking huge risks or didn't understand what they were doing.

 

[greybeard]

ou should do some more research on investing in the stock market before you knock it. You are missing out on some of the easiest money you will ever make in your life. There is nothing like it.

I fully agree. On my old place, I was so pleased with my returns that I had a little sign at one of the property line entrances that said "The Place Exxon Built"

 

[farmerjan]

Good work.
Would you buy or feed them differently next time to do even better?

Don't know what he would do differently. The money was in the buying costs kept down by picking up bull calves and working them. Some cost as little as 1.25/lb... some in the 1.50's... he normally would have put 35 out on the pasture he is committed to with a friend... but with the high price of steers right now, decided to sell them and will graze 35+/- heifers out there instead.
Prices on even bull calves in the 4-5 wts is much higher now... mostly only a $.10 discount from steers so cannot make it pencil out.
We feed corn silage and free choice hay and a little protein top dressed on the silage. Pasture free choice also. Had 15 of the 36 on a pasture with some supplemental hay and a bucket of 15% commodity pellets twice a week... no silage except a couple scoops to keep them used to it with the pellets. They got fed and checked on twice a week. The rest of them were in a couple acre pasture with bunkline feeder and got more silage. Too many to keep at one place.
He is more into the feeders, I am more the cow calf person. But @greybeard is exactly right.... someone has to have the cows to produce the calves for all these people that think they should have just feeders. And on years that you don't have a good crop like our corn silage, then you probably didn't have enough rain to make a good hay crop either, so then what???

 

[Mountaintown Creek Ranch]

You should do some more research on investing in the stock market before you knock it. You are missing out on some of the easiest money you will ever make in your life. There is nothing like it.

There is no better feeling than checking cattle and looking at your phone and you are up $30K... at no cost... no time... no labor... nothing to you.

The only people that go broke in the stock market were taking huge risks or didn't understand what they were doing.

My FIL was a broker for Merrill Lynch for many many years.
He got caught up in that Merrill Lynch take down and lost every dime.
We ended up supporting him the last 7 years of his life.

 

[Lucky]

You should do some more research on investing in the stock market before you knock it. You are missing out on some of the easiest money you will ever make in your life. There is nothing like it.

There is no better feeling than checking cattle and looking at your phone and you are up $30K... at no cost... no time... no labor... nothing to you.

The only people that go broke in the stock market were taking huge risks or didn't understand what they were doing.

I have stocks Brute. They make me money. I just don't get too excited about it. I definitely recommend them to everyone. I don't knock the market at all. You gotta admit the last few years haven't been outstanding though. Hopeful it'll turn around, I'm gonna need it when I'm 65.

 

[Caustic Burno]

CB, you always say "welfare cattle" just because you have bad luck in the cattle biz and can't turn a profit doesn't mean others have the same results. I've wanted to do a dance when I got my check and I've wanted to cry. It's all a game. You gotta play to win.

This year is shaping up to be a home run. Then again the cattle market could drop through the bottom tomorrow.

I haven't had bad luck at all and have been running them over fifty years.
Most cattlemen don't have a clue what it cost to upkeep a cow.
It usually the ones spouting off about how much their making that are the most clueless.
They are your welfare cattlemen.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Maybe

Used to you could.
I don't have a clue how anyone could starting out today.
You can't even purchase land like I did , I paid 300 to 800 an an acre for timberland and cut 800 to 1200 an acre off it.
Timber paid for the land and the D-9 with a shear blade to clear all the stumps.
That wasn't uncommon in the 60's and 70's.
I could have bought the 250 acres across the road for 400 an acre with virgin timber.
You can't even find a stand of virgin timber that large in the county today unless its National Forrest.
The cost of hay alone today with 800 dollar a ton fertilizer and 4 buck diesel not including maintenance.
Last roll of net wrap I bought was like 100 bucks it's pushing 300 today.
We are getting prices today on our calves we were getting ten years ago.
I used to sell one calf and buy three tons of fertilizer, today your lucky if a calf will buy a ton.
Our own government has done a lot of this to us.
The slaughterhouse monopoly, USLD, and the shutdown of all but around 30 NH3 plants due to cost of EPA regulation.
Problem is we buy everything retail and sell wholesale and wholesale hasn't kept up with retail. A lot of what we are buying retail today is being produced in Russia or China.
This didn't happen overnight.
We have shifted away from a production to consumer nation over the last 50 years.

The only handle we have is input cost.

My 2 cents

 

[callmefence]

Used to you could.
I don't have a clue how anyone could starting out today.
You can't even purchase land like I did , I paid 300 to 800 an an acre for timberland and cut 800 to 1200 an acre off it.
Timber paid for the land and the D-9 with a shear blade to clear all the stumps.
That wasn't uncommon in the 60's and 70's.
I could have bought the 250 acres across the road for 400 an acre with virgin timber.
You can't even find a stand of virgin timber that large in the county today unless its National Forrest.
The cost of hay alone today with 800 dollar a ton fertilizer and 4 buck diesel not including maintenance.
Last roll of net wrap I bought was like 100 bucks it's pushing 300 today.
We are getting prices today on our calves we were getting ten years ago.
I used to sell one calf and buy three tons of fertilizer, today your lucky if a calf will buy a ton.
Our own government has done a lot of this to us.
The slaughterhouse monopoly, USLD, and the shutdown of all but around 30 NH3 plants due to cost of EPA regulation.
Problem is we buy everything retail and sell wholesale and wholesale hasn't kept up with retail. A lot of what we are buying retail today is being produced in Russia or China.
This didn't happen overnight.
We have shifted away from a production to consumer nation over the last 50 years.

The only handle we have is input cost.

My 2 cents

If you can't look past the cow and the calf to make profit off your operation your not going to do very well.

 

[Lee VanRoss]

Used to you could.
I don't have a clue how anyone could starting out today.
You can't even purchase land like I did , I paid 300 to 800 an an acre for timberland and cut 800 to 1200 an acre off it.
Timber paid for the land and the D-9 with a shear blade to clear all the stumps.
That wasn't uncommon in the 60's and 70's.
I could have bought the 250 acres across the road for 400 an acre with virgin timber.
You can't even find a stand of virgin timber that large in the county today unless its National Forrest.
The cost of hay alone today with 800 dollar a ton fertilizer and 4 buck diesel not including maintenance.
Last roll of net wrap I bought was like 100 bucks it's pushing 300 today.
We are getting prices today on our calves we were getting ten years ago.
I used to sell one calf and buy three tons of fertilizer, today your lucky if a calf will buy a ton.
Our own government has done a lot of this to us.
The slaughterhouse monopoly, USLD, and the shutdown of all but around 30 NH3 plants due to cost of EPA regulation.
Problem is we buy everything retail and sell wholesale and wholesale hasn't kept up with retail. A lot of what we are buying retail today is being produced in Russia or China.
This didn't happen overnight.
We have shifted away from a production to consumer nation over the last 50 years.

The only handle we have is input cost.

My 2 cents

That makes more sense than jawing about the color of a cow or the ears and hump on your bull.

 

[Stocker Steve]

And on years that you don't have a good crop like our corn silage, then you probably didn't have enough rain to make a good hay crop either, so then what???

Running both cows and stockers allows you to protect the cow herd during a mild drought. Stockers get a ride to somewhere that has cheaper feed.

Usually if you don't have feed, it is also high priced to purchase, so you have to do the math on what size and what kind and how many you can still make a profit on. Feeding stocker and feeders can cause big losses at times. You may not want any of them.

Light wt. male calves were the most profitable buys here last fall. Sounds like you capitalized on that. My guess is 2023 will be the same.

 

[Stocker Steve]

If you are the portfolio kind, you want to own both real estate and common stock, because the prices often move differently. Last year was a very good example.

The capital gains tax rate is what makes a cow or heifer investment semi-interesting.

 

[Brute 23]

I have stocks Brute. They make me money. I just don't get too excited about it. I definitely recommend them to everyone. I don't knock the market at all. You gotta admit the last few years haven't been outstanding though. Hopeful it'll turn around, I'm gonna need it when I'm 65.

What years have not been good? We are at all time highs. I made a killing on covid.

 

[Brute 23]

Every one should go to stockers and backgrounding and all that stuff. It's the only way to make money.

The sooner the better in fact.

 

[Brute 23]

I invest in the stock market the same way I do in cattle. Simple, long term, consistent, low risk investments. No fancy games or nonsense. Just consistently increase my net worth year after year after year.

If the cattle today talking heads are saying stockers I'm going cow calf. If the media is saying sell stock... I'm priming up to buy. If every one says use debt I'm going cash. It's pretty simple.

 

[Stocker Steve]

I invest in the stock market the same way I do in cattle. Simple, long term, consistent, low risk investments. No fancy games or nonsense. Just consistently increase my net worth year after year after year.

What is the 2023 plan?

 

[callmefence]

What years have not been good? We are at all time highs. I made a killing on covid.

View attachment 27663

View attachment 27664

That's good but.
I've got fence materials out there in the barn I bought 5 years ago with better gains .

 

[Brute 23]

What is the 2023 plan?

2023 is really no different than any other year. I had been moving to free up cash and generate cash in hopes of higher interest rates. Started moving profits from the few single stocks I had to cash and then in to S&P and other index funds. Working on some storage facilities, again to generate cash.

Nothing new on cattle. Keep inputs low and take advantage of higher prices. Going to try feeding out a few butcher animals and see if that has any legs.

Pretty much the same goal... work less... make more... play harder.

 

[callmefence]

2023 is really no different than any other year. I had been moving to free up cash and generate cash in hopes of higher interest rates. Started moving profits from the few single stocks I had to cash and then in to S&P and other index funds. Working on some storage facilities, again to generate cash.

Nothing new on cattle. Keep inputs low and take advantage of higher prices. Going to try feeding out a few butcher animals and see if that has any legs.

Pretty much the same goal... work less... make more... play harder.

You must play very very cheap.

 

[Brute 23]

You must play very very cheap.

Why?