Church

[TexasBred]

RAB...you have given some good points there, well said....and if you think about it, people think of Jesus and God as being White, God he obviously was a male as Jesus said 'Father forgive them as they know not what they do' he always refers to him as Father in heaven. But and this is a big BUT, if Jesus came from the part of the World he is said to have come from Bethlehem, Judea (now Palestine), he wouldn't be White as we interpret white to be, he would be Arab, Black or Israeli.

Sacred scripture teaches us that Jesus was of the tribe of Judah....He was a Jew. (Probably a very well tanned Jew at that). :nod:

Both the Bible and the koran teach that arabs are descendents of Ishmael the son of Hagar the servant of Sarah and 2nd wife of Abraham.

There are two tribes that eventually formed England and America. Know which ones they are?

Herf...never heard of any certainty on this claim although Mormon teachings try to make native americans descendents of the "Lost Tribes" even though DNA evidence refutes the claim.

 

[alacattleman]

Don't get me wrong I believe, and attend Church, but I often wonder why Bethlehem (the Middle East) was chosen, and not somewhere else in the World, such as say Britain, as we were all heathens at the time and wars were going on with the folks from over the Channel, i.e Denmark, Rome, and such like. even Italy where the Vatican now is, supposedly the Holiest place around. Just my thoughts.[/quote]


Good internal questions. Also interesting is why a Jewish man was chosen and most Jewish people didn't believe he was the Messiah. The Jewish people I have been around do not like blue eyes.[/quote]............................... because like our thinking they were looking for a mighty king to bust up in amongst them .not a little jew riding a donkey speaking in parables. and making them all mad over their rediculas traditions .. now his return what be as humble ;-)

 

[HerefordSire]

I'll try not to get radical on this...lol!

Given that, there are a number of "valid" religions in the World as practiced by those in different cultures and societies. It is the basis for their belief in some form of Supreme Being. The Native Americans, Aztecs, Incas, and others worshipped "products in the environment and beyond" (e.g., sun, stars, Eagles, Bears, etc.). There are some who say that people that "worship" things other than the Christian God are breaking one of the Commandments: "There Shall Not Have..." There will always be the question of "Who and What is God" People assume that God is White and Male: No one knows. Making that assumption only serves to designate and reinforce the notion that only a White Male can be a God...food for thought! Only those of the "Christian" following consider the Christian Bible to be the only true and valid source of inspiration and faith. Within this, the fundamentalist and various "Bible Belt" denominations accept the Bible as the unquestioned, literal word of God. There is always the issue of interpreting the Bible as "literal" or as a document of parables, analogies, examples, morals, etc. It all depends on one's church group and denomination (or sub-denomination) as to how one interprets (or takes literally each and every word in the Christian Bible).

Over the centuries, there have been various translations of the events that happened in the periods B.C. and A.D. Every time some document is translated from one language to another (verbally or in writing) errors and mis-interpretaions can inadvertently happen. Even some of the highly respected religious scholars are questioning some things.

To any of the participants on this Board, I am not knocking anyone's religion, denomination, and/or interpretation (or lack of interpretation) of any sacred document. Among all of the religious documents that have been produced by various cultures, there are differences of opinion and different ways of reporting and interpreting events, miracles, non-miracles, lifestyles, and all. Every culture has their own history and religious recordings that serve their culture the best for their own peoples.

Learning history is good. If we homo-sapiens are 50,000 years old, and the earth is over 4 billion years old, 2000 years ago just happened. Beliefs are a dangerous thing to tamper with. Many are willing to die for what we believe in.

For the last month or so, a couple of church-goers keep knocking on my door very early Saturday morning. They aren't the kids in white shirts and ties, but the same principal. I reckon they are fulfilling orders to do good works. I wish they would quit waking me up. I eventually quit answering the door and look out the window at them while they stand waiting.

There are 10,000 people in my southern bible belt town. There are 40 churches! :shock: :shock: :shock:
There are about 10 drugstores in a dry county! :shock: :shock: :shock:
Who is the heck is buying all the drugs?

There are so many preachers in town, they could fill of a church with just preachers. There is a local TV station showing various preachers. Some are better than others. Where do all the salaries come from to support all these people? Even if every citizen in town made $100K per year and tithed 10% per year, there would not be enough money to mow all the church lawns. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

 

[TexasBred]

Herf I know what you mean. The kids visiting the house are probably Jehovah's Witnesses. I try to be nice and always take the literature for two reasons..They get credit for passing it out and since I don't beleive their theology it keeps it out of the hands of some gullible person that might.

We have our share of the tv "personalities' as well. Almost comical how some pound the podium on the evils of TV and the "real followers" do not have TV's in their homes, yet the preacher has a TV show....not to mention a BMW and a big huge house. Preach love and forgiveness then the first time someone get's PO'd they move down the street, open up a new church and name is "Friendly Baptist or whatever". I live in a small community but we have 6 churches, each a different denomination. Guess there have not been any serious fights to cause a split yet. :lol2:

Reminded of the minister who had his bicycyle stolen so decided to preach on the 10 commandments and really emphasis "Thou Shalt Not Steal".....preached his sermon but stopped before he got to "Thou Shalt Not Steal". Friend asked him why and he said "Well when I got to "Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultry", I remembered where I left my bicycle. :lol2: :lol2: :lol2:

 

[HerefordSire]

Herf...never heard of any certainty on this claim although Mormon teachings try to make native americans descendents of the "Lost Tribes" even though DNA evidence refutes the claim.

I heard that also. Read this theory...

Great Britian and the USA are believed to be the Anglo-Saxon ancestors of the tribes Ephraim and Manasseh

"The kingly line of Judah (Genesis 49:10) reached Britain when a
daughter of Zedekiah, the last king of Judah before the fall of Jerusalem,
arrived with Jeremiah in 569 B.C. This princess, Tea-Tephi, married the
king of Ireland, who also happened to be a descendant of Judah through
Zarah, Judah's younger son (Genesis 38:30), and so both branches of the
kingly line were established as the Royal House of Ireland. This kingdom
was transferred to Scotland and then to England with James I (James VI of
Scotland) in 1603. Queen Elizabeth II of Great Britian, therefore is a
direct descendant of King David and recipient of his throne." (D. Olinger,
_British Israelism_, Bob Jones University Press)

"Jeremiah also brought with him in 569 B.C. the liafail, or Jacob's
pillow-stone (Genesis 28:18) which had been used as the coronation stone of
the kings of Judah (II Kings 11:14 - "pillar"). This stone now rests in
the royal coronation chair of Great Britain in Westminster Abbey. All kings
and queens of Great Britain are crowned while sitting on this chair."
(D. Olinger)

The transfer of the kingdom from James VI of Scotland/James I England
(who was of the house of Tudor) to the present queen (Elizabeth II) who is
of the house of Windsor, was achieved through a distant relative, the king
of Bohemia, and then back through George I into the house of Windsor. This,
British Israelists say, completes the lineage back to King David.

Isaac = Saxon and British = Men of the Covenant

By removing the letter "I" from Isaac, Herbert Armstrong derives the word
"saac" which combines with the word "son" to form "Saxon", i.e. "British".
His logic is that "I" should be removed as the Hebrews omitted the vowels
in their writing. This of course, should also require the "a"'s to be
removed. The name "Isaac" is in reality anyway a latinsed form of the
Hebrew name "Yitschak" (as in the late Yitschak Rabin), which would be
significantly more difficult for Armstrong to twist.

"Berith" is Hebrew for the word "Covenant" while "Ish" is Hebrew for "man".
If you join the two, British Israelists claim you obtain the word "British"
which means "men of the Covenant". There is, however, no significant
relationship between Hebrew and English.

 

[HerefordSire]

TB...

The tribe of Judah and the tribe of Ephraim are as one.

Ephraim was the younger son of Joseph, son of Jacob, and Asenath, daughter of Potiphera (priest of the sun god Re of Heliopolis). Ephraim is the ancestor of the Tribe of Ephraim. Before his death, Jacob adopted his grandchildren Ephraim and Manasseh to be equal with his own sons (Genesis 48:5). When Jacob blessed Joseph's two sons he placed his right hand on the head of the younger boy, Ephraim, and his left hand on the older boy, Manasseh. Joseph was upset when his father laid his right hand on the younger grandson, rather than the older grandson. But Jacob said that although Manasseh would become the ancestor of a great nation, his younger brother would be the ancestor of an even greater nation. (Genesis 48:19). In the chronicles of the tribes, Ephraim takes precedence over Manasseh in all matters, such as the order of marching, the consecration gifts for the Tabernacle, and the order of the allocation of territory. When the Kingdom of Israel divided about 2900 years ago, the northern portion was often referred to by the name of Ephraim. In Revelation 7:7, Ephraim is not listed as one of the tribes receiving the Seal of God for 12,000 of its members. The name Ephraim means "fruitful."

 

[alacattleman]

Herf I know what you mean. The kids visiting the house are probably Jehovah's Witnesses. I try to be nice and always take the literature for two reasons..They get credit for passing it out and since I don't beleive their theology it keeps it out of the hands of some gullible person that might.

We have our share of the tv "personalities' as well. Almost comical how some pound the podium on the evils of TV and the "real followers" do not have TV's in their homes, yet the preacher has a TV show....not to mention a BMW and a big huge house. Preach love and forgiveness then the first time someone get's PO'd they move down the street, open up a new church and name is "Friendly Baptist or whatever". I live in a small community but we have 6 churches, each a different denomination. Guess there have not been any serious fights to cause a split yet. :lol2:
Reminded of the minister who had his bicycyle stolen so decided to preach on the 10 commandments and really emphasis "Thou Shalt Not Steal".....preached his sermon but stopped before he got to "Thou Shalt Not Steal". Friend asked him why and he said "Well when I got to "Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultry", I remembered where I left my bicycle. :lol2: :lol2: :lol2:

6 church's just a starter kit in alabama towns, we got that many on one block. ive seen churchs splits 3 or 4 times over one thing or another wheather dress code, make up, hair i could go on an on an on

 

[grannysoo]

"Religion is man's atttempt to reach God by man's terms."

That was a most excellent quote!

 

[HerefordSire]

I doubt very seriously that Jesus was blonde haired and blue eyed, like the picture hanging in Granny's dining room. Who knows, though! Photos were scarce back then! :lol2:

we all have images of the lord in our head,, but the bible said JESUS was not a comely man meaning he wasnt goodlooking or one too be desired,, though you would thought he would be,, being the son of GOD but GOD knows the focus was on the inner man

If the great flood killed everyone but Noah's family, and King David descended from Noah, and Jesus descended from King David, and Jesus was Jewish, and the majority of Jewish people have dark eyes, where did blue eyes and blond hair come from, and at what point in time did blue eyes arrive?

 

[HerefordSire]

If a person receives a letter from an acquaintance, that person must read the whole letter to know what has been said. It is the same way with the letter mankind has received from God. We need to know the whole context of God's letter to us (the Holy Bible), and not cherry pick only that which we want to hear. Love is the key. Christianity without love is meaningless and false.

Is the bible cherry picking? In other words, is the bible the only letter sent to us?

 

[HerefordSire]

The Ark...

The Ark of the Covenant was rediscovered through the leading of God. Ron Wyatt, the archeologist whom God had permitted to re-discover a number of significant archeological finds including Noah's ark, the Red Sea crossing site with its encrusted chariot wheels, the real Mt. Sinai with its blackened top and altars, was directed by God to dig in an area outside of old Jerusalem known as the Calvary Escarpment. The place is also known as the place of the Skull, reflecting a pattern in the rock and is fairly close to the Garden Tomb, one of the suspected burial places of Jesus (see map below). This was in an area located between the walls of Jerusalem and the Babylonian siege wall during the siege of Jerusalem prior to its fall and destruction around 586 B.C. Permission to excavate was granted by the Israeli government as well as by the owners of the two properties that would be affected.
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When the Roman soldier pierced Jesus' side, His blood flowed down through the crack and the open casement lid anointing the atonement cover (mercy seat) of the Ark of the Covenant. It fulfilled in part the Day of the Atonement (Yom Kippur) service where the blood of "the Lord's goat" was to be sprinkled on the mercy seat (see Lev. 16:7, 15, 16) atoning for the "uncleanness and rebellion of the Israelites, whatever their sins have been." This Jesus' symbol contrasts markedly with the other goat (the scapegoat) which represents Satan. Upon this scapegoat, all the sins from God's people were placed after the ritual cleansing of the temple, and then it was taken to a desolate place to perish.
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This find is probably the most significant archeological find in history. A number of dictators, including Adolph Hitler and Mussolini, felt that possessing the Ark would give them power over their enemies and aggressively sought for it. Yet it should be emphasized that the Ark itself has no power except as God's presence is dwelling there.

The Israeli government after examining artifacts brought from the chamber, has confirmed to its satisfaction that the Ark has indeed been found. However, to its credit, the government has been very careful with the release of information to prevent riots and the potential destruction of the Dome of the Rock by Jewish extremists. Some examples of what happened when people misused the ark discovery information.

A brash young intrusive tourist who called a press conference to announce the find was found by the press corps dead from a gunshot to the back of the head.

A doctor of archeology from the Israeli university, as he attempted to enter the chamber became totally paralyzed in his back and legs. He spent two weeks in the hospital and swore he'd never try to enter the chamber again.

When the Israeli government released some information about the find, a riot ensued at the Dome of the Rock resulting in over 20 deaths.

The Israeli government, satisfied that the Ark has been found, has ordered the chamber to be sealed. The entryway was covered with a steel plate and then covered with 2 feet of rock and dirt. It awaits a better time for God to reveal it.

http://www.bibleplus.org/discoveries/arkintro.htm

 

[redfornow]

TB...
In Revelation 7:7, Ephraim is not listed as one of the tribes receiving the Seal of God for 12,000 of its members.

But "Joseph" is added? In a sense, the tribe of Joseph was only a tribe in theory?
As you might recall, Joseph's two sons were given separate tribal status because Joseph
was specially honored with a double portion. Even though he was not born first (chronologically),
he was, by Jacob's decree, given the rights of the firstborn socially
(hence receiving the double portion given to the firstborn son). Jacob himself had been in a similar position: even though his twin Esau was born first, Jacob received the honors of the firstborn.
So we can assume that one of Joseph's sons, Ephraim, who is also Jacob's grandson, is included under the tribe of "Joseph," while Joseph's other son, Manasseh, is listed separately as his own tribe.

Also, the tribe of Dan isnt included in Rev 7 either...

 

[HerefordSire]

TB...
In Revelation 7:7, Ephraim is not listed as one of the tribes receiving the Seal of God for 12,000 of its members.

But "Joseph" is added? In a sense, the tribe of Joseph was only a tribe in theory?
As you might recall, Joseph's two sons were given separate tribal status because Joseph
was specially honored with a double portion. Even though he was not born first (chronologically),
he was, by Jacob's decree, given the rights of the firstborn socially
(hence receiving the double portion given to the firstborn son). Jacob himself had been in a similar position: even though his twin Esau was born first, Jacob received the honors of the firstborn.
So we can assume that one of Joseph's sons, Ephraim, who is also Jacob's grandson, is included under the tribe of "Joseph," while Joseph's other son, Manasseh, is listed separately as his own tribe.

Also, the tribe of Dan isnt included in Rev 7 either...

Here is quick access to the King James version....

http://kingjbible.com/revelation/7.htm

 

[VanC]

We have our share of the tv "personalities' as well. Almost comical how some pound the podium on the evils of TV and the "real followers" do not have TV's in their homes, yet the preacher has a TV show....not to mention a BMW and a big huge house.

Who can name the song and the artist?

Preacher man talkin' on the TV,
He's a-puttin' down the rock 'n' roll.
He wants me to send a donation,'Cos he's worried about my soul.
He said: "Jesus walked on the water,"And I know that is true,
But sometimes I think that preacher man,
Would like to do a little walkin', too.

 

[Running Arrow Bill]

Hope someone will not shoot me here...lol.

I find it interesting on ANY forum anywhere, that when the subject of religion is addressed it is always the Christian faith and 99.99% of time never touches the other religions of the world. Also, a religious discussion is always a magnet for the scripture quoters to come out of the woodwork and have an answer for everything... ;-)

Guess the Bible quoting people would consider the scientific advances in the past 10 to 20 years that have examined archelogical remains, DNA tested, etc.,etc. to be "false prophecy" since these findings were apparently not mentioned in the Christian Bible. Then there is the Davinchi (sp?) Code or writings that discuss other things.

I am not against any valid religion, denomination, or group (except the Jihadists who want to kill everyone not in their group).

From a World Religion standpoint, the Bible is but one version of human's creation and prescription for life. It is not the only "true word".

Please, I am not anti-religion or anti-Christian by any means. Just am aware, broadminded, and worldly enough in my intellect and education to know there is more than one source or answer...

 

[HerefordSire]

Hope someone will not shoot me here...lol.

I find it interesting on ANY forum anywhere, that when the subject of religion is addressed it is always the Christian faith and 99.99% of time never touches the other religions of the world. Also, a religious discussion is always a magnet for the scripture quoters to come out of the woodwork and have an answer for everything... ;-)

Guess the Bible quoting people would consider the scientific advances in the past 10 to 20 years that have examined archelogical remains, DNA tested, etc.,etc. to be "false prophecy" since these findings were apparently not mentioned in the Christian Bible. Then there is the Davinchi (sp?) Code or writings that discuss other things.

I am not against any valid religion, denomination, or group (except the Jihadists who want to kill everyone not in their group).

From a World Religion standpoint, the Bible is but one version of human's creation and prescription for life. It is not the only "true word".

Please, I am not anti-religion or anti-Christian by any means. Just am aware, broadminded, and worldly enough in my intellect and education to know there is more than one source or answer...

What bothers me, is if one piece of important information is incorrect, the incorrect branch could also branch and branch and branch, etc., until billions of erroneous pieces of information are circulating. By the way, the Davinchi Code was very interesting. I saw a preacher on TV taking the other side of the debate so it must be making headway and the preacher must be sacared about it.

 

[redfornow]

In Revelation 7:7, Ephraim is not listed as one of the tribes receiving the Seal of God for 12,000 of its members.

So we can assume that one of Joseph's sons, Ephraim, who is also Jacob's grandson, is included under the tribe of "Joseph," while Joseph's other son, Manasseh, is listed separately as his own tribe.

My point: the tribe of Ephrain while not list by name is mentioned if you read the bible as a whole....

 

[chrisy]

I doubt very seriously that Jesus was blonde haired and blue eyed, like the picture hanging in Granny's dining room. Who knows, though! Photos were scarce back then! :lol2:

we all have images of the lord in our head,, but the bible said JESUS was not a comely man meaning he wasnt goodlooking or one too be desired,, though you would thought he would be,, being the son of GOD but GOD knows the focus was on the inner man

If the great flood killed everyone but Noah's family, and King David descended from Noah, and Jesus descended from King David, and Jesus was Jewish, and the majority of Jewish people have dark eyes, where did blue eyes and blond hair come from, and at what point in time did blue eyes arrive?

blond hair and blue eyes came from the Scandinavians, Denmark, Sweden and Germany etc. When the Vikings invaded. ;-) :nod:

 

[MO_cows]

VanC, that was Charlie Daniels' 'Long Haired Country Boy'

 

[larryshoat]

Hope someone will not shoot me here...lol.

I find it interesting on ANY forum anywhere, that when the subject of religion is addressed it is always the Christian faith and 99.99% of time never touches the other religions of the world. Also, a religious discussion is always a magnet for the scripture quoters to come out of the woodwork and have an answer for everything... ;-)

Guess the Bible quoting people would consider the scientific advances in the past 10 to 20 years that have examined archelogical remains, DNA tested, etc.,etc. to be "false prophecy" since these findings were apparently not mentioned in the Christian Bible. Then there is the Davinchi (sp?) Code or writings that discuss other things.

I am not against any valid religion, denomination, or group (except the Jihadists who want to kill everyone not in their group).

From a World Religion standpoint, the Bible is but one version of human's creation and prescription for life. It is not the only "true word".
Please, I am not anti-religion or anti-Christian by any means. Just am aware, broadminded, and worldly enough in my intellect and education to know there is more than one source or answer...

Well Bill I reckon that explains a lot, I'm not worldly, not all that educated, probably not very broad minded either. I see one problem with your philosophy, if you're right...... it doesn't matter anyway, if I'm right...... you're in a heck of a lot of trouble.

Larry