Church

[TSR]

What's that Bumper Sticker I like so well?? "Christians aren't perfect, just forgiven."

 

[HerefordSire]

I would go back to church, except for the religion part. It's great if you can practice faith, but some of us crave some hard evidence before committing alot of time and resources. I never understood why it'd be so terrible for God to make things more obvious.

It didn't help when Jesus and the apostles were performing miracles, why would it help today?

What would you think if someone told you their friend took one loaf of bread and fed thousands of people? Then what would you think if you read, in a newpaper, that someone did the same thing?

 

[HerefordSire]

It seems that some have had bad experiences in Churches and I think if we read about the 7 Churches in Revalations we'll see that bad Churches should not be a surprise, it's all right there.

So to those that had bad experiences I would offer a few suggestions 1. Read your Bible daily and when you're confronted by evil you'll know the truth. 2. If your Church is not what it should be, get involved in the leadership and change it. Make sure your bad experience never happens to anyone else. 3. If #2 doesn't work find a different Church.

The mother of two young kids once told me that getting those two ready for Church made the hour before Church the most un-holy hour of the week. My reply.... that's Satan's last chance to keep your kids out of Church. Satan is alive and well in the church and given the chance will send people away, He hates God and He hates the Church, and would do anything to destroy it.

Larry

If I were a bank robber, I would hangout by banks.
If I were an elephant hunter, I would hangout by a watering hole in Africa.
If I were a stockbroker, I would hangout by rich people.
If I were a saint, I would hang out by needy people.

Where does Satan hang out at? The church?

 

[HerefordSire]

What kind of hard evidence could convince you? Would seeing with your own eyes do it?

I used to have a sig line that read something to the effect of "If Jesus lived amongst us today, people would break His windows.", and that is so. I also believe religious organizations, and those that participate in and with them, would be His greatest persecutors.

I am looking in the mirror. Where are you looking?

 

[HerefordSire]

I would go back to church, except for the religion part. It's great if you can practice faith, but some of us crave some hard evidence before committing alot of time and resources. I never understood why it'd be so terrible for God to make things more obvious.

Maybe He could write a book or something, you know something we could go to on a daily basis to read and apply to our lives.


Jesus tells us in John 16:23 that whatever is asked in His name it shall be given. If ever there is a point in your life when you're up against something so big and so scary that you can't imagine a way out, when it looks impossible, think of John 16:23 and ask Jesus Christ to forgive your sins and to save you from your impossible situation. Try it , believe me you won't have anything to lose and everything to gain.

Larry

Have you ever looked for something and discovered it was in your hand? How about driving to work the same way for many years, and then all of the sudden on your way, you see a building for the first time?

 

[HerefordSire]

What kind of hard evidence could convince you? Would seeing with your own eyes do it?

I used to have a sig line that read something to the effect of "If Jesus lived amongst us today, people would break His windows.", and that is so. I also believe religious organizations, and those that participate in and with them, would be His greatest persecutors.

Angie that is what I always believed as well. Also I do not think he would be hobnobbing with the holier than thou and patting them on the back, he would be out with the real people who are just trying to be their best and need the strength and guidance to do it. Or those that are lost and need the wisdom to accept the help they need to get on the right track.

What is the difference between the "real people who are just trying to be their best and need the strength and guidance to do it" and the "holier than thou" people?

 

[HerefordSire]

"The Church is one: she acknowledges one Lord, confesses one faith, is born of one Baptism, forms only one Body, is given life by one Spirit, for the sake of one hope, at whose fulfilment all divisions will be overcome."

Total submission.... as in a man having a submissive wife?

 

[jw]

]

What would you think if someone told you their friend took one loaf of bread and fed thousands of people? Then what would you think if you read, in a newpaper, that someone did the same thing?

This has to be a trick question - they did not have newspapers back then, and I don't recall reading where someone else did the same thing. However, Jesus did give his apostles the power to perform miracles and the powers ended with them. If someone claimed they could do them and they were not of Jesus' they were "accursed".

What is the difference between the "real people who are just trying to be their best and need the strength and guidance to do it" and the "holier than thou" people?

Humility and wisdom.

 

[jw]

Total submission.... as in a man having a submissive wife?

You are correct - only the man doesn't have to be an a$$ about it. He is also to love his wife as his own body and care and protect her.

 

[HerefordSire]

You have to remember HS, people can fool people and they can even fool themselves, but no one is fooling God.

Religion is personal for me. It is not about image or social activities.

That is what I am mostly referring to....fooling myself. I was taught our conscience (soul) was geometrically square in shape and each deception we present, turned our conscience (soul) a quarter turn. There is renewable friction around the corners of our initially square conscience. Before long, many deceptions makes our conscience geometrically round in shape and the friction is no longer present so deception no longer bothers us.

 

[BeefmasterB]

I used to have a sig line that read something to the effect of "If Jesus lived amongst us today, people would break His windows.", and that is so. I also believe religious organizations, and those that participate in and with them, would be His greatest persecutors.

Angie that is what I always believed as well. Also I do not think he would be hobnobbing with the holier than thou and patting them on the back, he would be out with the real people who are just trying to be their best and need the strength and guidance to do it. Or those that are lost and need the wisdom to accept the help they need to get on the right track.

I would agree with both of you for the most part. Although, there are a lot of good church building people out there that don't have that HTT attitude. You know them by the seeds they sew outside of the building walls. Those who have read the NT for themselves know where He spent most of His time and who He spent it with.

 

[HerefordSire]

]

What would you think if someone told you their friend took one loaf of bread and fed thousands of people? Then what would you think if you read, in a newpaper, that someone did the same thing?

This has to be a trick question - they did not have newspapers back then, and I don't recall reading where someone else did the same thing. However, Jesus did give his apostles the power to perform miracles and the powers ended with them. If someone claimed they could do them and they were not of Jesus' they were "accursed".

No trick quesiton jw. I am referring to right now, not back 2,009 + 33 year ago.

 

[backhoeboogie]

Those who have read the NT for themselves know where He spent most of His time and who He spent it with.

You hit the nail square on the head there. It has always amazed me how people can be Christian but have never fully read the word. Their whole belief system is based on hearsay. But, then again, surely there have been some very strong individuals in history who could neither read nor write. So from that concept, I simply must accept things for what they are.

The sermond on the mound, in all versions, is my favorite part of the Bible. No telling how many times I have read that through the years. Matthew is probably my favorite version.

 

[hillsdown]

HS :

What is the difference between the "real people who are just trying to be their best and need the strength and guidance to do it" and the "holier than thou" people ?

I have very very good friends who are the sweetest kindest most caring and understanding people you could ever meet, they do not go to church or have any religious persuasion, and I also have the best friends ever who are Jehovah witness who are caring non judgemental and the all around greatest friends ever.

These people do not judge me for my religious beliefs but for who I am... I am a caring, empathetic person who hopes that one day the good will prevail. I try to do my best and not judge, but sometimes it is hard..I ask for the strength and guidance to be the best that I can be as well as for the wisdom to care for and look after all that depend upon me each and every day..

I do not however appreciate hypocrites and personally ,I pray to God that I never will be or am one.. AND I do not need to go to church for this..

 

[angie1]

What kind of hard evidence could convince you? Would seeing with your own eyes do it?

I used to have a sig line that read something to the effect of "If Jesus lived amongst us today, people would break His windows.", and that is so. I also believe religious organizations, and those that participate in and with them, would be His greatest persecutors.

I am looking in the mirror. Where are you looking?

If you projected the above statement about the would-be persecutors of Jesus onto yourself, and took it personally, then your self evaluation/examination should prove helpful. I simply made a statement I believe to be so, neither incriminating nor exonerating myself. I do not need to account.

 

[TexasBred]

You have to remember HS, people can fool people and they can even fool themselves, but no one is fooling God.

Religion is personal for me. It is not about image or social activities.

That is what I am mostly referring to....fooling myself. I was taught our conscience (soul) was geometrically square in shape and each deception we present, turned our conscience (soul) a quarter turn. There is renewable friction around the corners of our initially square conscience. Before long, many deceptions makes our conscience geometrically round in shape and the friction is no longer present so deception no longer bothers us.

Square peg in the round hole. Tell a lie enough times and you eventually convince even yourself.

 

[Running Arrow Bill]

Those who have read the NT for themselves know where He spent most of His time and who He spent it with.

You hit the nail square on the head there. It has always amazed me how people can be Christian but have never fully read the word. Their whole belief system is based on hearsay. But, then again, surely there have been some very strong individuals in history who could neither read nor write. So from that concept, I simply must accept things for what they are.

The sermond on the mound, in all versions, is my favorite part of the Bible. No telling how many times I have read that through the years. Matthew is probably my favorite version.

I'll try not to get radical on this...lol!

Given that, there are a number of "valid" religions in the World as practiced by those in different cultures and societies. It is the basis for their belief in some form of Supreme Being. The Native Americans, Aztecs, Incas, and others worshipped "products in the environment and beyond" (e.g., sun, stars, Eagles, Bears, etc.). There are some who say that people that "worship" things other than the Christian God are breaking one of the Commandments: "There Shall Not Have..." There will always be the question of "Who and What is God" People assume that God is White and Male: No one knows. Making that assumption only serves to designate and reinforce the notion that only a White Male can be a God...food for thought! Only those of the "Christian" following consider the Christian Bible to be the only true and valid source of inspiration and faith. Within this, the fundamentalist and various "Bible Belt" denominations accept the Bible as the unquestioned, literal word of God. There is always the issue of interpreting the Bible as "literal" or as a document of parables, analogies, examples, morals, etc. It all depends on one's church group and denomination (or sub-denomination) as to how one interprets (or takes literally each and every word in the Christian Bible).

Over the centuries, there have been various translations of the events that happened in the periods B.C. and A.D. Every time some document is translated from one language to another (verbally or in writing) errors and mis-interpretaions can inadvertently happen. Even some of the highly respected religious scholars are questioning some things.

To any of the participants on this Board, I am not knocking anyone's religion, denomination, and/or interpretation (or lack of interpretation) of any sacred document. Among all of the religious documents that have been produced by various cultures, there are differences of opinion and different ways of reporting and interpreting events, miracles, non-miracles, lifestyles, and all. Every culture has their own history and religious recordings that serve their culture the best for their own peoples.

 

[alacattleman]

Those who have read the NT for themselves know where He spent most of His time and who He spent it with.

You hit the nail square on the head there. It has always amazed me how people can be Christian but have never fully read the word. Their whole belief system is based on hearsay. But, then again, surely there have been some very strong individuals in history who could neither read nor write. So from that concept, I simply must accept things for what they are.

The sermond on the mound, in all versions, is my favorite part of the Bible. No telling how many times I have read that through the years. Matthew is probably my favorite version.

I'll try not to get radical on this...lol!

Given that, there are a number of "valid" religions in the World as practiced by those in different cultures and societies. It is the basis for their belief in some form of Supreme Being. The Native Americans, Aztecs, Incas, and others worshipped "products in the environment and beyond" (e.g., sun, stars, Eagles, Bears, etc.). There are some who say that people that "worship" things other than the Christian God are breaking one of the Commandments: "There Shall Not Have..." There will always be the question of "Who and What is God" People assume that God is White and Male: No one knows. Making that assumption only serves to designate and reinforce the notion that only a White Male can be a God...food for thought! Only those of the "Christian" following consider the Christian Bible to be the only true and valid source of inspiration and faith. Within this, the fundamentalist and various "Bible Belt" denominations accept the Bible as the unquestioned, literal word of God. There is always the issue of interpreting the Bible as "literal" or as a document of parables, analogies, examples, morals, etc. It all depends on one's church group and denomination (or sub-denomination) as to how one interprets (or takes literally each and every word in the Christian Bible).

Over the centuries, there have been various translations of the events that happened in the periods B.C. and A.D. Every time some document is translated from one language to another (verbally or in writing) errors and mis-interpretaions can inadvertently happen. Even some of the highly respected religious scholars are questioning some things.

To any of the participants on this Board, I am not knocking anyone's religion, denomination, and/or interpretation (or lack of interpretation) of any sacred document. Among all of the religious documents that have been produced by various cultures, there are differences of opinion and different ways of reporting and interpreting events, miracles, non-miracles, lifestyles, and all. Every culture has their own history and religious recordings that serve their culture the best for their own peoples.

i don't know bill.. looking at a east indian rib cage while he's bowed down too a cow? or muslims tying a bomb around their childs waist, too me you either believe in"THE GOD JEHOVAH"" which i do completely" or just presume there's one and follow tradition

 

[chrisy]

RAB...you have given some good points there, well said....and if you think about it, people think of Jesus and God as being White, God he obviously was a male as Jesus said 'Father forgive them as they know not what they do' he always refers to him as Father in heaven. But and this is a big BUT, if Jesus came from the part of the World he is said to have come from Bethlehem, Judea (now Palestine), he wouldn't be White as we interpret white to be, he would be Arab, Black or Israeli.

 

[alacattleman]

RAB...you have given some good points there, well said....and if you think about it, people think of Jesus and God as being White, God he obviously was a male as Jesus said 'Father forgive them as they know not what they do' he always refers to him as Father in heaven. But and this is a big BUT, if Jesus came from the part of the World he is said to have come from Bethlehem, Judea (now Palestine), he wouldn't be White as we interpret white to be, he would be Arab, Black or Israeli.

he was born in that part of the world, but he was not of this world.as we all know