Church

[backhoeboogie]

Besides for security reasons, has your church ever gave anything to anyone anonymously?

I absolutely can say mine has.

When mother was laid up in the hospital and then in hospice I remember all the kind lady groups that came around regularly and kept checking up on her when she was moved to hospice. When you think of grief counselling and outreach programs, it all gets way beyond monetary.

The congregation has food drives for food banks regularly.

I will give you an example of what I am referring to. In town there is a local mens group. They do various community tasks such as building a city park building, etc. They donate the materials and the time. They receive most of their income from various functions such as fish frys, membership dues, and auctions of donated mechandise. All this appears to cause no one harm and helps the community. However, I often look deeper into motives. For example, an insurance representative may join to acquire more clients, etc. For some reason, and I am not an attorney or judge, I look closely at people's possible motives. Why this, why that? Always asking myself questions whether people's hearts are in the right place.

In the end, all you really need to worry about is if your heart is in the right place.

It is always best to pick your friends wisely. As such you are always second guessing where other folk's hearts are. There have been surprises both ways for me in the past. You of course have to accept that anyone's else actions or motives are totally beyond your control.

 

[HerefordSire]

It makes a big difference Larry. There is nothing silly about it. This is one of the biggest issues I face with churches. It is one thing to help someone with them knowing you helped them and it is another to help someone without them knowing who helped them.

Many people do "good" things for others so they can brag about it, or put it on a resume, but I believe most people help others because they want to help make the world a little better place. I believe most people have good hearts and good intentions, church or not. If doing something for others makes them feel good, so what? It doesn't mean they're doing it for selfish reasons.

As for being anonymous, sometimes that's not possible. What about people that visit shut-ins or nursing homes, or drive people to the polls on election day, or help out at a homeless shelter or veterans hospital? I could go on and on. Should they have a fake identity and wear a disguise when they do these things? Or maybe they should just stop altogether. After all, they're not doing any good unless they do it anonymously. Right?

I agree with Larry. The notion that a person has to do good things anonymously or it doesn't count is silly.

There is a fundamental difference between me giving anonymously and non-anyonymously. The only way I know I am not being selfish, is to give anonymously. It sounds like you and Larry are much stronger, wiser, and greater than I.

I have often wondered who the people were that helped me anonymously. It bothers me so much, it makes me constantly think about doing the same thing for someone else. The energy, transferred to me upon gift reception, can not be equalized until I give in return. I do not have a chance to say thank-you or even reject a gift because of phony pride. The energy just builds up and builds up over time until blast-off. This is much different than giving to a person that knows the source of the energy. What happens, is the gift receiver when knowing the giver, many times has no need to help others, but are always needing help.

 

[VanC]

It makes a big difference Larry. There is nothing silly about it. This is one of the biggest issues I face with churches. It is one thing to help someone with them knowing you helped them and it is another to help someone without them knowing who helped them.

Many people do "good" things for others so they can brag about it, or put it on a resume, but I believe most people help others because they want to help make the world a little better place. I believe most people have good hearts and good intentions, church or not. If doing something for others makes them feel good, so what? It doesn't mean they're doing it for selfish reasons.

As for being anonymous, sometimes that's not possible. What about people that visit shut-ins or nursing homes, or drive people to the polls on election day, or help out at a homeless shelter or veterans hospital? I could go on and on. Should they have a fake identity and wear a disguise when they do these things? Or maybe they should just stop altogether. After all, they're not doing any good unless they do it anonymously. Right?

I agree with Larry. The notion that a person has to do good things anonymously or it doesn't count is silly.

There is a fundamental difference between me giving anonymously and non-anyonymously. The only way I know I am not being selfish, is to give anonymously. It sounds like you and Larry are much stronger, wiser, and greater than I.

No. It simply means that we see things differently. My point was that sometimes, as in the cases I cited, it is impossible to give anonymously. It doesn't automatically mean that the person is being selfish, or that they should stop giving in that manner.

 

[larryshoat]

It makes a big difference Larry. There is nothing silly about it. This is one of the biggest issues I face with churches. It is one thing to help someone with them knowing you helped them and it is another to help someone without them knowing who helped them.

Many people do "good" things for others so they can brag about it, or put it on a resume, but I believe most people help others because they want to help make the world a little better place. I believe most people have good hearts and good intentions, church or not. If doing something for others makes them feel good, so what? It doesn't mean they're doing it for selfish reasons.

As for being anonymous, sometimes that's not possible. What about people that visit shut-ins or nursing homes, or drive people to the polls on election day, or help out at a homeless shelter or veterans hospital? I could go on and on. Should they have a fake identity and wear a disguise when they do these things? Or maybe they should just stop altogether. After all, they're not doing any good unless they do it anonymously. Right?

I agree with Larry. The notion that a person has to do good things anonymously or it doesn't count is silly.

There is a fundamental difference between me giving anonymously and non-anyonymously. The only way I know I am not being selfish, is to give anonymously. It sounds like you and Larry are much stronger, wiser, and greater than I.

I have often wondered who the people were that helped me anonymously. It bothers me so much, it makes me constantly think about doing the same thing for someone else. The energy, transferred to me upon gift reception, can not be equalized until I give in return. I do not have a chance to say thank-you or even reject a gift because of phony pride. The energy just builds up and builds up over time until blast-off. This is much different than giving to a person that knows the source of the energy. What happens, is the gift receiver when knowing the giver, many times has no need to help others, but are always needing help.

Herf as I read your posts it seems to me that you're more caught up in how you give than in meeting the needs of others. When I take a broad look at what you're saying you seem to do the very thing that you're trying to avoid. It seems the central focus is you.

Larry

 

[HerefordSire]

Larry...yes, it is a catch 22.

 

[djinwa]

I would go back to church, except for the religion part. It's great if you can practice faith, but some of us crave some hard evidence before committing alot of time and resources. I never understood why it'd be so terrible for God to make things more obvious.

I also think some are more social than others. My mom loves church, but doesn't have a deep understanding of what's going on there - she just enjoys the company. I've always been more solitary - I get a bit uneasy in a crowd. Some will support the group no matter what. Gangs require you to prove your faithfulness. In high school it was tradition to smear the freshmen in the locker room with hot ointment causing considerable pain - happened to me, and I sent some guys flying and put an end to that ceremony forever. I realized later that I was supposed to accept the practice and keep it going.

Anyway, I'm a bit leary of joining a group just because it's good for me, as I don't know where it's heading.

 

[CattleHand]

I think its good to go to church. You cant control everything in life and its a peace of mind to know something bigger is out there. Im not the most religious, but God does deserve all the respect you could give him in my book and going to church is a good way to show that respect.

I thought what was interesting (and what i read of it) was the part about giving to charities from the church and if the people knew where it came from. I think it takes a bigger man to give something away and the people that recieve it and need it never knew where it came from and no one ever knew he gave it away. I think Churches are a good median for us to get out of our daily lives about worrying about only ourselves and come togather as a community.

 

[grannysoo]

I would go back to church, except for the religion part.

That sums it up nicely for me. There is a huge difference between my faith in God and religion...

 

[alacattleman]

I would go back to church, except for the religion part.

That sums it up nicely for me. There is a huge difference between my faith in God and religion...

yep even the lord did'nt care for it ,during his stay on earth ;-)

 

[jw]

I would go back to church, except for the religion part. It's great if you can practice faith, but some of us crave some hard evidence before committing alot of time and resources. I never understood why it'd be so terrible for God to make things more obvious.

It didn't help when Jesus and the apostles were performing miracles, why would it help today?

 

[HerefordSire]

I have had good and bad experiences in a church. but i believe the benifits far out wiegh the bad.

What is your best experience with a church and your worst experience with a church?

 

[HerefordSire]

I would go back to church, except for the religion part. It's great if you can practice faith, but some of us crave some hard evidence before committing alot of time and resources. I never understood why it'd be so terrible for God to make things more obvious.

What kind of hard evidence could convince you? Would seeing with your own eyes do it? Do you think it is harder, for say an astronomer or a scientist (professions needing proof), to have conviction in a belief?

 

[HerefordSire]

I think its good to go to church. You cant control everything in life and its a peace of mind to know something bigger is out there. Im not the most religious, but God does deserve all the respect you could give him in my book and going to church is a good way to show that respect.

I thought what was interesting (and what i read of it) was the part about giving to charities from the church and if the people knew where it came from. I think it takes a bigger man to give something away and the people that recieve it and need it never knew where it came from and no one ever knew he gave it away. I think Churches are a good median for us to get out of our daily lives about worrying about only ourselves and come togather as a community.

Do you think more people gravitate to churches during bad times, like we are having now, and tend to move away when times are better?

 

[backhoeboogie]

You have to remember HS, people can fool people and they can even fool themselves, but no one is fooling God.

Religion is personal for me. It is not about image or social activities.

 

[angie1]

What kind of hard evidence could convince you? Would seeing with your own eyes do it?

I used to have a sig line that read something to the effect of "If Jesus lived amongst us today, people would break His windows.", and that is so. I also believe religious organizations, and those that participate in and with them, would be His greatest persecutors.

 

[hillsdown]

What kind of hard evidence could convince you? Would seeing with your own eyes do it?

I used to have a sig line that read something to the effect of "If Jesus lived amongst us today, people would break His windows.", and that is so. I also believe religious organizations, and those that participate in and with them, would be His greatest persecutors.

Angie that is what I always believed as well. Also I do not think he would be hobnobbing with the holier than thou and patting them on the back, he would be out with the real people who are just trying to be their best and need the strength and guidance to do it. Or those that are lost and need the wisdom to accept the help they need to get on the right track.

 

[larryshoat]

I would go back to church, except for the religion part. It's great if you can practice faith, but some of us crave some hard evidence before committing alot of time and resources. I never understood why it'd be so terrible for God to make things more obvious.

Maybe He could write a book or something, you know something we could go to on a daily basis to read and apply to our lives.


Jesus tells us in John 16:23 that whatever is asked in His name it shall be given. If ever there is a point in your life when you're up against something so big and so scary that you can't imagine a way out, when it looks impossible, think of John 16:23 and ask Jesus Christ to forgive your sins and to save you from your impossible situation. Try it , believe me you won't have anything to lose and everything to gain.

Larry

 

[larryshoat]

It seems that some have had bad experiences in Churches and I think if we read about the 7 Churches in Revalations we'll see that bad Churches should not be a surprise, it's all right there.

So to those that had bad experiences I would offer a few suggestions 1. Read your Bible daily and when you're confronted by evil you'll know the truth. 2. If your Church is not what it should be, get involved in the leadership and change it. Make sure your bad experience never happens to anyone else. 3. If #2 doesn't work find a different Church.

The mother of two young kids once told me that getting those two ready for Church made the hour before Church the most un-holy hour of the week. My reply.... that's Satan's last chance to keep your kids out of Church. Satan is alive and well in the church and given the chance will send people away, He hates God and He hates the Church, and would do anything to destroy it.

Larry

 

[grannysoo]

I have had good and bad experiences in a church. but i believe the benifits far out wiegh the bad.

What is your best experience with a church and your worst experience with a church?

My best experience in church? Seeing the power of God bring someone to salvation.

My worst church experience? When a poor woman came to the alter to give her life to Christ and the preacher turned his back to her. He was such a "fine, religious man", but could not stand the thought of this lowly poor woman in "his" church.

Needless to say, one of the church leaders stepped up and helped take care of her needs. That was the next to last time I ever went to that church. I did go back one more time to the business meeting to let the preacher know my less than modest opinion of him and his action. That church went from 150+ regular members to 25 in less than 6 months.

And if I was in the area, I'm sure that I would want to attend church with larryshoat! It's good to see a someone that loves his convictions and his church...

 

[TexasBred]

"The Church is one: she acknowledges one Lord, confesses one faith, is born of one Baptism, forms only one Body, is given life by one Spirit, for the sake of one hope, at whose fulfilment all divisions will be overcome."