Church

[chrisy]

RAB...you mention no one has said about other religions, perhaps this is because not many on here belong to any, I would think it seems that most are of the Christian faiths, Baptist, Catholic, C/E, and such like. I have a fond interest in other religions to try to understand, and be tollerent of peoples way of thinking. I can't get my head around the Muslium faith, but it is interseting to read, I have found a site that a few of you may be interested in reading to:-http://www.letusreason.org/WorldR.htm

this is a paragraph from it, it seems to explain why Palatine and Israel can't get along, and there is and will always be unrest out there.

The God in the Bible is called the God of the Jews, an impossibility with Allah. They are called his chosen people, but they are not Allah's chosen. Allah commands the Muslim to not take the Jews or Christians as friends, Sura.5:51 disdains the Jews. Mohammed said, "The last hour will not come before the Muslims fight the Jews, and the Muslims kill them." (Mishkat Al Masabih Sh.M. Ashraf pp.147, 721, 810-11, 1130). So how could Israel inherit the land or any of God's promises from Allah, if he is their God. Clearly he is not the same God of the Bible.

 

[rockridgecattle]

Seens how there are 11 pages on church, and it is Sunday, any one going to church?

We are, and it is our Sunday School Picnic as well.
Have a good Father's Day all

RR

 

[larryshoat]

Seens how there are 11 pages on church, and it is Sunday, any one going to church?

We are, and it is our Sunday School Picnic as well.
Have a good Father's Day all

RR

Yeah, we just got back. This was our Pastors last Sunday, we are United Methodist and they move about every four or five years.

Larry

 

[1982vett]

Seens how there are 11 pages on church, and it is Sunday, any one going to church?

We are, and it is our Sunday School Picnic as well.
Have a good Father's Day all

RR

Yeah, we just got back. This was our Pastors last Sunday, we are United Methodist and they move about every four or five years.

Larry

Same here, except our pastor gets to stay another year.
Had a nice Fathers Day covered dish luncheon after church.

 

[Running Arrow Bill]

Some thoughts...

First of all I am not a "student" of the Bible. Was exposed to it as a child in my Southern Baptist upbringing; however, changed after I left home...other denomination.

That aside, some "academic" thoughts:

• Noah's Ark: According to mathmeticians and engineers measurements, there is no way an ark that small could ever hold 2 of each species on Earth.
  Burning Bush: Perhaps a parable? Any number bushes or shrubs could catch fire easily (flammable sap) if struck by lightening.
  Arc of The Covenant: No idea, no comment.
  Sodom & Gomorra: Could happen in any time period or culture (that is, "sinful ways of the people that resulted in their downfall").
  Adam & Eve: Actual only 2 people created (or) a concept that the earth needed a male and female to propagate (and, if only 2 people started, then there had to be a lot of incest and line breeding in order to make enough people that lived to be old enough to reproduce themselves. Also, it implies that a man was the most important one while the woman only was "made" from a small part of man. The beginning of a patriarchial society.
  Genesis: God created heaven and earth in 6 days and rested on the 7th day. Literally 7 days in our own concept of time (or) relative time period over millions of years? [The evolution vs. creation theory].
  Genesis: Too many names to remember or figure out...everyone begat everyone.
  Ten Commandments: God actually sent a lightening bolt to carve them in stone tablets (or) a message that God is all powerful and with a lightening bolt can strike you dead (or maimed) if you disobey?
  Proverbs: Very good instructions, examples, and analogies.
  Revelation: Prophecy, instilling fear, doom, or something else?
  God Created the Heavens and Earth: Are we to assume in our vast and never ending cosmic universe that our own Earth is the only habitable planet in the solar system?
  Samson & Delilah: Another parable, story, or illustration that if one or groups of people engaged in sinful ways that a messenger of God could be seduced by a woman and then have the strength and arm length to grab stone columns and pull the temple down? [If a group of people are sinful or corrupt, someone or something will cause your house to fall].
  Parting of the Sea: Lot of environmental events could have caused it (by hands of God) and not necessarily one man who let his followers into the sea... [Good vs. Evil]
  Lott's Wife Turned to a Pillar of Stone: Probably a parable that says a person will have a bad thing happen to them if they disobey their God, not necessarily a "literal" event.
  Cain & Able: Probably true. It still happens today...siblings killing or trying to kill each other.
  Heaven: Land of Spice and Honey and Milk and fluffy clouds...doubtful.
  Hades: Literal fire and brimstone...doubtful.
  [There is obviously Hades and Heaven on Earth as well as probably the hereafter in some form or another. I don't think any mortal individual (except Jesus) has actually every returned from death to report on either. On the other hand, what about "Guardian Angels"???

[/list]

Oh well...dug my hole a little deeper. I'm not saying that any of the above or any previous comments I have made actually correspond to one or more of my everyday beliefs. Just using some logical questions and approaches to the unknown...no crime in that???

 

[Jogeephus]

Some thoughts...

First of all I am not a "student" of the Bible. Was exposed to it as a child in my Southern Baptist upbringing; however, changed after I left home...other denomination.

That aside, some "academic" thoughts:

• Noah's Ark: According to mathmeticians and engineers measurements, there is no way an ark that small could ever hold 2 of each species on Earth.
  Burning Bush: Perhaps a parable? Any number bushes or shrubs could catch fire easily (flammable sap) if struck by lightening.
  Arc of The Covenant: No idea, no comment.
  Sodom & Gomorra: Could happen in any time period or culture (that is, "sinful ways of the people that resulted in their downfall").
  Adam & Eve: Actual only 2 people created (or) a concept that the earth needed a male and female to propagate (and, if only 2 people started, then there had to be a lot of incest and line breeding in order to make enough people that lived to be old enough to reproduce themselves. Also, it implies that a man was the most important one while the woman only was "made" from a small part of man. The beginning of a patriarchial society.
  Genesis: God created heaven and earth in 6 days and rested on the 7th day. Literally 7 days in our own concept of time (or) relative time period over millions of years? [The evolution vs. creation theory].
  Genesis: Too many names to remember or figure out...everyone begat everyone.
  Ten Commandments: God actually sent a lightening bolt to carve them in stone tablets (or) a message that God is all powerful and with a lightening bolt can strike you dead (or maimed) if you disobey?
  Proverbs: Very good instructions, examples, and analogies.
  Revelation: Prophecy, instilling fear, doom, or something else?
  God Created the Heavens and Earth: Are we to assume in our vast and never ending cosmic universe that our own Earth is the only habitable planet in the solar system?
  Samson & Delilah: Another parable, story, or illustration that if one or groups of people engaged in sinful ways that a messenger of God could be seduced by a woman and then have the strength and arm length to grab stone columns and pull the temple down? [If a group of people are sinful or corrupt, someone or something will cause your house to fall].
  Parting of the Sea: Lot of environmental events could have caused it (by hands of God) and not necessarily one man who let his followers into the sea... [Good vs. Evil]
  Lott's Wife Turned to a Pillar of Stone: Probably a parable that says a person will have a bad thing happen to them if they disobey their God, not necessarily a "literal" event.
  Cain & Able: Probably true. It still happens today...siblings killing or trying to kill each other.
  Heaven: Land of Spice and Honey and Milk and fluffy clouds...doubtful.
  Hades: Literal fire and brimstone...doubtful.
  [There is obviously Hades and Heaven on Earth as well as probably the hereafter in some form or another. I don't think any mortal individual (except Jesus) has actually every returned from death to report on either. On the other hand, what about "Guardian Angels"???

[/list]

Oh well...dug my hole a little deeper. I'm not saying that any of the above or any previous comments I have made actually correspond to one or more of my everyday beliefs. Just using some logical questions and approaches to the unknown...no crime in that???

Since you are tossing out food for thought I'd like to toss something out as well. What if the Bible is the history of the Jewish people? Would this not explain many of your "academic questions" ? Would it not also explain how Cain could leave and take a wife and build a city? Of why God marked him so that no one he ran across would kill him? And is this not further suggested in Matt 15 25-27? Best thing to do is to believe in God not a religion. JMO

 

[grannysoo]

Best thing to do is to believe in God not a religion. JMO

Once again, another outstanding quote...

 

[BeefmasterB]

Best thing to do is to believe in God not a religion. JMO

Your absolutely right, Jogee!! :nod: While "church" organizations and religions have done some good, they have also stirred up more divisiveness than can never be undone.

 

[grannysoo]

Best thing to do is to believe in God not a religion. JMO

Your absolutely right, Jogee!! :nod: While "church" organizations and religions have done some good, they have also stirred up more divisiveness than can never be undone.

At times, you can't tell the difference between organized religion and organized crime...

 

[HerefordSire]

I am surprised no one picked up on the purpose of the Ark of the Convenant post I posted. If you were to click on a link to obtain more information, you could have read this. It is amazing no one seems to be interested in this. The following information is related to the orginal post so you may need to read that again first.

Whilst in the chamber, Ron noticed a dried, black substance in an earthquake crack in the roof, above the Ark of the Covenant. He noticed that this black substance was also on the lid of the cracked stone casing. Obviously, this substance had dripped from the crack in the roof, and provision had been made for it to land on the Ark of the Covenant, as the stone lid had been cracked and moved aside. Ron wondered what substance could be so sacred, that God made provision for it to land on the Mercy Seat of the Ark of the Covenant. He remembered the earthquake crack at the foot of the cross hole, and suddenly an awesome realization as to what had happened, came over him. Ron traced the earthquake crack, and indeed it was the same crack as the one at the cross hole. The dried black substance in the crack was tested and proved to be blood, apparently the blood of Jesus Christ. The Bible says that when Jesus died there was an earthquake and the rocks were rent (Matt. 27:51). A Roman soldier speared Christ in His side in order to make sure He was dead, and blood and water poured out (John 19:34). Ron discovered that this same blood and water poured down through the earthquake crack and fell upon the Mercy Seat of the Ark of the Covenant.

Human cells normally have 46 chromosomes. These are actually 23 pairs of homologous chromosomes. In each pair of chromosomes, one of the pair is from the mother and the other member is from the father. Therefore, 23 chromosomes come from the mother and 23 from the father. In each set of 23, 22 chromosomes are autosomal and one is sex-determining. The sex-determining ones are the X chromosome and the Y chromosome. Females are XX, so they can only contribute an X chromosome to their offspring, whereas males are XY, which allows them to contribute either an X or a Y. If they contribute an X, the child is female, whereas if they contribute a Y, the child is male. The fascinating finding in this blood was that instead of 46 chromosomes, there were only 24. There were 22 autosomal chromosomes, one X chromosome and one Y chromosome. This evidences that the person to whom this blood belonged to had a mother but no human father, because the normal contribution of paternal chromosomes is missing. 1John.5.8, 9: "And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son." What does Daniel 9:24 mean, when it says, "To anoint the Most Holy."? The rest of the verse refers to events that occurred at the cross. Did this also, then occur at Jesus' crucifixion? The Hebrew word for Most Holy is, "qodesh haq-qodeshim". It is used several times in the Old Testament and always refers to the Most Holy place, or furniture in the Most Holy place ie. the Ark of the Covenant. This then must be a prophecy that Christ, on the cross, will anoint the Ark of the Covenant, with His blood.

http://english.sdaglobal.org/evangelism ... venant.htm

 

[rockridgecattle]

HS, to deep for me.
I believe. That is it. Simple like the faith of a little child. I believe He created us, that He died on the cross for our sins and that we need to ask Him into our hearts and for forgiveness of our sins. With that, and that alone we will be saved. However, if the confession is true, He will work in our lives and change us to be more like Him in our actions, our thoughts, our heart. These will be visible signs of the change in us. That said, we are human, and even though we strive to be Christ like with His help, we do and will screw up and make a mess of things. And like the loving Father he is, He will forgive us, and love us unconditionally. That is it. Nothing more nothing less. Its a two parter. Like "and", "but", "because", and "cause and effect".
Anymore than that and it gets confusing and confusion is not of the Father. There can be all the physical proof in the world and more and still it would require faith in Him. In Christ's time, they had Him walking the earth and they chose not to believe.

Just so we are clear, I believe in the literalness of the bible. I believe that God inspired men to write the books and letters. And that He inspired men to put the bible together for us to read and learn about our Father in heaven. In my heart, I believe if we start reading between the lines, interpreting what is said, we leave ourselves open to allow different interpretations of the bilbe. If we do that we end up with confusion...and strife in the church...and again...God is not the author of confusion

 

[TexasBred]

Hope someone will not shoot me here...lol.

I find it interesting on ANY forum anywhere, that when the subject of religion is addressed it is always the Christian faith and 99.99% of time never touches the other religions of the world. Also, a religious discussion is always a magnet for the scripture quoters to come out of the woodwork and have an answer for everything... ;-)

Guess the Bible quoting people would consider the scientific advances in the past 10 to 20 years that have examined archelogical remains, DNA tested, etc.,etc. to be "false prophecy" since these findings were apparently not mentioned in the Christian Bible. Then there is the Davinchi (sp?) Code or writings that discuss other things.

I am not against any valid religion, denomination, or group (except the Jihadists who want to kill everyone not in their group).

From a World Religion standpoint, the Bible is but one version of human's creation and prescription for life. It is not the only "true word".

Please, I am not anti-religion or anti-Christian by any means. Just am aware, broadminded, and worldly enough in my intellect and education to know there is more than one source or answer...

What bothers me, is if one piece of important information is incorrect, the incorrect branch could also branch and branch and branch, etc., until billions of erroneous pieces of information are circulating. By the way, the Davinchi Code was very interesting. I saw a preacher on TV taking the other side of the debate so it must be making headway and the preacher must be sacared about it.

Herf there are a number of well written books and other articles which have little or no problem difusing all the goofy claims in the DaVinci code books. Mr. Brown writes a good book for the ignorant but is a very poor scholar and researcher.

That said, one thing did before his death burial and resurrection was to build a church. Even Holy Scripture tells us to "listen to the Church, the pillar and foundation of TRUTH. if the Church did not tell me that the Holy Bible was the inerrant word of God I would have no reason to believe one word of it.

 

[HerefordSire]

In Revelation 7:7, Ephraim is not listed as one of the tribes receiving the Seal of God for 12,000 of its members.

So we can assume that one of Joseph's sons, Ephraim, who is also Jacob's grandson, is included under the tribe of "Joseph," while Joseph's other son, Manasseh, is listed separately as his own tribe.

My point: the tribe of Ephrain while not list by name is mentioned if you read the bible as a whole....

That agrees with the general concensus. The Ephaim tribe was embedded in Joseph's tribe which is listed. I guess the logic behind Manasseh being listed and the younger son Ephraim not being listed, is because the prophet laid his right hand on Ephraim and as you mentioned previously, Joseph's double portion to be received.

 

[HerefordSire]

blond hair and blue eyes came from the Scandinavians, Denmark, Sweden and Germany etc. When the Vikings invaded. ;-) :nod:

The Tribe of Dan is probably what you are after. I would think the blue eyes were a genetic mutation at some point. Dark eyes are dominant to blue eyes. For the blue eyes to continue, they would have likely had to split off or they would have been overtaken by dark eyes. Since Jesus supposedly didn't descend from Dan, he likely did not have blue eyes but I would need to study more. There could have been other major mutations.

 

[HerefordSire]

Hope someone will not shoot me here...lol.

I find it interesting on ANY forum anywhere, that when the subject of religion is addressed it is always the Christian faith and 99.99% of time never touches the other religions of the world. Also, a religious discussion is always a magnet for the scripture quoters to come out of the woodwork and have an answer for everything... ;-)

Guess the Bible quoting people would consider the scientific advances in the past 10 to 20 years that have examined archelogical remains, DNA tested, etc.,etc. to be "false prophecy" since these findings were apparently not mentioned in the Christian Bible. Then there is the Davinchi (sp?) Code or writings that discuss other things.

I am not against any valid religion, denomination, or group (except the Jihadists who want to kill everyone not in their group).

From a World Religion standpoint, the Bible is but one version of human's creation and prescription for life. It is not the only "true word".
Please, I am not anti-religion or anti-Christian by any means. Just am aware, broadminded, and worldly enough in my intellect and education to know there is more than one source or answer...

Well Bill I reckon that explains a lot, I'm not worldly, not all that educated, probably not very broad minded either. I see one problem with your philosophy, if you're right...... it doesn't matter anyway, if I'm right...... you're in a heck of a lot of trouble.

Larry

That is how my father explained it in different words. According to the teachings I received and if I understand correctly, even if a worldy person is incorrect in their beliefs all their life except for the last 5 seconds, it is possible the person could be admitted to heaven. If worldly life was ended unexpectedly, then your statement becomes more though provoking.

 

[KMacGinley]

I have read all of the "impossibilities" that people throw out there: the 7 days of creation or 7 ages? The miracles and other examples from the bible that people say are impossible, but here are some things that made me stop and think on my spiritual Journey.

God's people still exist. Where are the hittites, the assyrians, the moabites, the babylonians, the amorites, the canaanites? The Hebrews are still with us despite horrible persecution and very professional attempts to blot them out. God's protection? I think so.

Anyone that is close to the earth, that sees how nature works knows that there is an intelligent design involved. There is a creator, all around us was created and it is good. How it was done, I have no idea, evolution might be part or it or not. Doesn't matter. It was done.

Now for Jesus... When he was crucified. You had 11 terrified disciples that were in hiding. a couple of days later, they were boldly preaching his resurrection. Now stop and think about that. 10 out of the 11 were killed for their testimony eventually. You do not die for something that you know to be false. They were killed in horrible fashion. Why did they do it? Because they knew that he had risen from the dead! and they had no fear.

And they established the church before they were killed and it took over most of the known world. Amazing. Very unlikely without God. And impossible if it was all a lie.

That is why I believe.

Now one more thing. Those of you that tell yourselves that if you lead a good life, that is all it takes, need to realize that you will never be good enough to stand in the presence of a perfect God. No one is without Jesus's gift. You must tell Jesus that you accept that he paid for your sins and accept him as your savior, live in him and then lead that good life as well as you can. And when you mess up, ask to be forgiven.
Easy as pie.

That is what I believe.

 

[HerefordSire]

RAB...you mention no one has said about other religions, perhaps this is because not many on here belong to any, I would think it seems that most are of the Christian faiths, Baptist, Catholic, C/E, and such like. I have a fond interest in other religions to try to understand, and be tollerent of peoples way of thinking. I can't get my head around the Muslium faith, but it is interseting to read, I have found a site that a few of you may be interested in reading to:-http://www.letusreason.org/WorldR.htm

this is a paragraph from it, it seems to explain why Palatine and Israel can't get along, and there is and will always be unrest out there.

The God in the Bible is called the God of the Jews, an impossibility with Allah. They are called his chosen people, but they are not Allah's chosen. Allah commands the Muslim to not take the Jews or Christians as friends, Sura.5:51 disdains the Jews. Mohammed said, "The last hour will not come before the Muslims fight the Jews, and the Muslims kill them." (Mishkat Al Masabih Sh.M. Ashraf pp.147, 721, 810-11, 1130). So how could Israel inherit the land or any of God's promises from Allah, if he is their God. Clearly he is not the same God of the Bible.

Didn't the Jews kill Jesus? Don't many Arabs want to kill Jews? How many Jews did blue eyed Hitler kill, 6M? The theme I see is to not kill. How many Christians are involved in killing right now? Because of politicians? Because of power and wealth? Any other excuses?

 

[larryshoat]

HS, to deep for me.
I believe. That is it. Simple like the faith of a little child. I believe He created us, that He died on the cross for our sins and that we need to ask Him into our hearts and for forgiveness of our sins. With that, and that alone we will be saved. However, if the confession is true, He will work in our lives and change us to be more like Him in our actions, our thoughts, our heart. These will be visible signs of the change in us. That said, we are human, and even though we strive to be Christ like with His help, we do and will screw up and make a mess of things. And like the loving Father he is, He will forgive us, and love us unconditionally. That is it. Nothing more nothing less. Its a two parter. Like "and", "but", "because", and "cause and effect".
Anymore than that and it gets confusing and confusion is not of the Father. There can be all the physical proof in the world and more and still it would require faith in Him. In Christ's time, they had Him walking the earth and they chose not to believe.

Just so we are clear, I believe in the literalness of the bible. I believe that God inspired men to write the books and letters. And that He inspired men to put the bible together for us to read and learn about our Father in heaven. In my heart, I believe if we start reading between the lines, interpreting what is said, we leave ourselves open to allow different interpretations of the bilbe. If we do that we end up with confusion...and strife in the church...and again...God is not the author of confusion

Once again RR a very good post :tiphat: .

Larry

 

[larryshoat]

I have read all of the "impossibilities" that people throw out there: the 7 days of creation or 7 ages? The miracles and other examples from the bible that people say are impossible, but here are some things that made me stop and think on my spiritual Journey.

God's people still exist. Where are the hittites, the assyrians, the moabites, the babylonians, the amorites, the canaanites? The Hebrews are still with us despite horrible persecution and very professional attempts to blot them out. God's protection? I think so.

Anyone that is close to the earth, that sees how nature works knows that there is an intelligent design involved. There is a creator, all around us was created and it is good. How it was done, I have no idea, evolution might be part or it or not. Doesn't matter. It was done.

Now for Jesus... When he was crucified. You had 11 terrified disciples that were in hiding. a couple of days later, they were boldly preaching his resurrection. Now stop and think about that. 10 out of the 11 were killed for their testimony eventually. You do not die for something that you know to be false. They were killed in horrible fashion. Why did they do it? Because they knew that he had risen from the dead! and they had no fear.

And they established the church before they were killed and it took over most of the known world. Amazing. Very unlikely without God. And impossible if it was all a lie.

That is why I believe.

Now one more thing. Those of you that tell yourselves that if you lead a good life, that is all it takes, need to realize that you will never be good enough to stand in the presence of a perfect God. No one is without Jesus's gift. You must tell Jesus that you accept that he paid for your sins and accept him as your savior, live in him and then lead that good life as well as you can. And when you mess up, ask to be forgiven.
Easy as pie.

That is what I believe.

Excellent post.

Larry

 

[HerefordSire]

Seens how there are 11 pages on church, and it is Sunday, any one going to church?

We are, and it is our Sunday School Picnic as well.
Have a good Father's Day all

RR

TY for the Father's day greeting RRC.

I haven't been to church in a long time and didn't go as the result of 11 pages on church. Speaking from your personal perspective, is there more sin in church in one day (or how many days you go per week) than outside of church the remaining days of the week?


Edit:
Sin is a term used mainly in a religious context to describe an act that violates a moral rule, or the state of having committed such a violation. Commonly, the moral code of conduct is decreed by a divine entity, i.e. Divine law.

Sin is often used to mean an action that is prohibited or considered wrong; in some religions (notably some sects of Christianity), sin can refer to a state of mind rather than a specific action. Colloquially, any thought, word, or act considered immoral, shameful, harmful, or alienating might be termed "sinful".

Common ideas surrounding sin in various religions include:

Punishment for sins, from other people, from God either in life or in afterlife, or from the Universe in general.
The question of whether an act must be intentional to be sinful.
The idea that one's conscience should produce guilt for a conscious act of sin.
A scheme for determining the seriousness of the sin.
Repentance from (expressing regret for and determining not to commit) sin, and atonement (repayment) for past deeds.
The possibility of forgiveness of sins, often through communication with a deity or intermediary; in Christianity often referred to as salvation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sin