Black Hereford

[Muddy]

Not ALL continental breeds have gone black ...

Name them.

 

[Turkeybird]

Turning a breed black is nothing more than a dilution of pure genetics into a counterfeit mongralized offspring

 

[Son of Butch]

Turning a breed black is nothing more than a dilution of pure genetics into a counterfeit mongralized offspring

And the solution is... to withdraw from any breed association that allows it and send any animals registered with said association to slaughter. Then buy registered black anus and boom automatic herd improvement!
Both I and the angus association :heart: the way you think Turkeybird.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Turning a breed black is nothing more than a dilution of pure genetics into a counterfeit mongralized offspring

The AHA will never recognize them the herd book is closed just like AAA.
I totally agree with the septic tank of Angus in the other breed associations.
Pity is they were even to lazy to make them into a standardized composite versus polluting the entire pool for black hair

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Turning a breed black is nothing more than a dilution of pure genetics into a counterfeit mongralized offspring

The AHA will never recognize them the herd book is closed just like AAA.
I totally agree with the septic tank of Angus in the other breed associations.
Pity is they were even to lazy to make them into a standardized composite versus polluting the entire pool for black hair

I thought Bright Raven straightened you out? The Angus pool isn't a septic tank, it's the non Angus breeds trying to look like Angus that have become septic tanks. Why do you continue to misrepresent?

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Turning a breed black is nothing more than a dilution of pure genetics into a counterfeit mongralized offspring

Turkey bird and Bright Raven must flock together. He knows the truth.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Turning a breed black is nothing more than a dilution of pure genetics into a counterfeit mongralized offspring

The AHA will never recognize them the herd book is closed just like AAA.
I totally agree with the septic tank of Angus in the other breed associations.
Pity is they were even to lazy to make them into a standardized composite versus polluting the entire pool for black hair

I thought Bright Raven straightened you out? The Angus pool isn't a septic tank, it's the non Angus breeds trying to look like Angus that have become septic tanks. Why do you continue to misrepresent?

You apparently haven't seen what some are trying to sell as Angus.
It's black has papers so it must be seedstock.
TT I have an Angus bull it was quite a search to find the right genotype and phenotype. Now you can find paper everywhere.
Maybe I just got hard to please after selling bulls for twenty years across several states.
Always felt you should only sell the best and cut the rest.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

The AHA will never recognize them the herd book is closed just like AAA.
I totally agree with the septic tank of Angus in the other breed associations.
Pity is they were even to lazy to make them into a standardized composite versus polluting the entire pool for black hair

I thought Bright Raven straightened you out? The Angus pool isn't a septic tank, it's the non Angus breeds trying to look like Angus that have become septic tanks. Why do you continue to misrepresent?

You apparently haven't seen what some are trying to sell as Angus.
It's black has papers so it must be seedstock.
TT I have an Angus bull it was quite a search to find the right genotype and phenotype. Now you can find paper everywhere.
Maybe I just got hard to please after selling bulls for twenty years across several states.
Always felt you should only sell the best and cut the rest.

Totally different discussion. I agree there might be less than ideal bulls out there in the Angus breed. That has nothing to do with their lineage or pedigree just a poor eye on the breeders part.

 

[Rafter S]

I thought Bright Raven straightened you out? The Angus pool isn't a septic tank, it's the non Angus breeds trying to look like Angus that have become septic tanks. Why do you continue to misrepresent?

You apparently haven't seen what some are trying to sell as Angus.
It's black has papers so it must be seedstock.
TT I have an Angus bull it was quite a search to find the right genotype and phenotype. Now you can find paper everywhere.
Maybe I just got hard to please after selling bulls for twenty years across several states.
Always felt you should only sell the best and cut the rest.

Totally different discussion. I agree there might be less than ideal bulls out there in the Angus breed. That has nothing to do with their lineage or pedigree just a poor eye on the breeders part.

A poor eye, don't know better, or are just downright dishonest. I've seen cattle advertised as Angus that had white on the face, or horns 6" long.

 

[elkwc]

Turning a breed black is nothing more than a dilution of pure genetics into a counterfeit mongralized offspring

And the solution is... to withdraw from any breed association that allows it and send any animals registered with said association to slaughter. Then buy registered black anus and boom automatic herd improvement!
Both I and the angus association :heart: the way you think Turkeybird.

Angus have been diluted also. I'm not sure any major breed got through the 80's & 90's without some dilution.

 

[Son of Butch]

I'm pretty sure angus were black before the '80s

 

[Caustic Burno]

Turning a breed black is nothing more than a dilution of pure genetics into a counterfeit mongralized offspring

And the solution is... to withdraw from any breed association that allows it and send any animals registered with said association to slaughter. Then buy registered black anus and boom automatic herd improvement!
Both I and the angus association :heart: the way you think Turkeybird.

Angus have been diluted also. I'm not sure any major breed got through the 80's & 90's without some dilution.

Nailed it a big Angus bull of the 70's was a thousand pounds. What did they throw in the woodpile to get ton freight trains overnight.
Hereford had some hinky shyt going on as well, when they got caught those cattle got green papered. Angus just covered it up better.

 

[elkwc]

And the solution is... to withdraw from any breed association that allows it and send any animals registered with said association to slaughter. Then buy registered black anus and boom automatic herd improvement!
Both I and the angus association :heart: the way you think Turkeybird.

Angus have been diluted also. I'm not sure any major breed got through the 80's & 90's without some dilution.

Nailed it a big Angus bull of the 70's was a thousand pounds. What did they throw in the woodpile to get ton freight trains overnight.
Hereford had some hinky shyt going on as well, when they got caught those cattle got green papered. Angus just covered it up better.

The AHA turned their heads also when the money people were involved. Titan is a classic case and the off colors still show up as they chose not to address it

 

[WalnutCrest]

Not ALL continental breeds have gone black ...

Name them.

There is one continental breed I know of that (i) allows a breed up program, (ii) requires a minimum of 90% of the reference breeds' blood (per pedigree) to qualify as 'Purebred', (iii) requires each animals actual percentage to be used for calculating offspring breed percentages, and (iv) disallows any animal who doesn't represent all of the traditional color points from achieving 'Purebred' status.

Meaning, there will be no black purebreds of this breed.

I'll give you one guess which breed it is.

 

[True Grit Farms]

And the solution is... to withdraw from any breed association that allows it and send any animals registered with said association to slaughter. Then buy registered black anus and boom automatic herd improvement!
Both I and the angus association :heart: the way you think Turkeybird.

Angus have been diluted also. I'm not sure any major breed got through the 80's & 90's without some dilution.

Nailed it a big Angus bull of the 70's was a thousand pounds. What did they throw in the woodpile to get ton freight trains overnight.
Hereford had some hinky shyt going on as well, when they got caught those cattle got green papered. Angus just covered it up better.

I don't buy all of that. Adding size is the easiest thing to breed for, the hard part is keeping the birth weights down. And somehow the Angus breeders manage to do that for the most part. Like it or not, Angus is flying the plane, some breeds are riding first class and the others are stuck in the economy class.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Grit I agree frame is the easiest to change just not overnight poof.
Takes seven generations to standardize
Angus isn't flying the plane they are running the greatest scam in history
with CAB.

 

[cbcr]

Turning a breed black is nothing more than a dilution of pure genetics into a counterfeit mongralized offspring

The AHA will never recognize them the herd book is closed just like AAA.
I totally agree with the septic tank of Angus in the other breed associations.
Pity is they were even to lazy to make them into a standardized composite versus polluting the entire pool for black hair

This has been what we have said from the very beginning when we started our registries. We have felt that if a breed had a composite is should have been standardized at a 5/8 x 3/8 mix. But big money, greed and big breeders are the ones that pushed for what it is now. Very few of the breeds have or offer what would be considered purebreds. How many purebred or fullblood Simmental are there? How many Gelbvieh, Limousin, Maine Anjou or other breeds? Look at the Chianina, are there any fullblood or purebred Chianina in the US? They even allow as little as 6% or lower and still be considered a Chianina.

With our diary registry, the Montbeliarde (in France) and Fleckvieh (Germany and Austria primarily) both have infused red Holstein into the breeds. Their is also the Swedish Red, Red Dane and Finnish Ayrshire. These three breeds are now being called Viking Reds and the individuality of these breeds will diminish because they are mixing them together. The breeds codes that are associated with these breeds will show what country the animals was bred in.

Back when many of these breeds were brought to the US, fullblood animals could not be brought in because of disease issues from Europe. They did get some fullbloods into Canada. With Embryo Transplant, it was much easier to be able to have fullblood animals.

 

[Muddy]

Full blooded Chianina and full blooded Maine Anjou are literally non-existent. I hasn't see a Fleckvieh or Gelbvieh in years. For some strange reason, the black hide fad don't mess around Romagnolas and Marchigiana that much.

 

[WalnutCrest]

Full blooded Chianina and full blooded Maine Anjou are literally non-existent. I hasn't see a Fleckvieh or Gelbvieh in years. For some strange reason, the black hide fad don't mess around Romagnolas and Marchigiana that much.

Here's a hint ...

The breed name starts with the letter A.

 

[DLD]

There are a very small handful of full blood Chi's in North America, a few more full blood Maine's. It might take some hunting but they are out there. Enough with the Maine's that semen on younger full blood bulls are readily available, probably can be found on the Chi's but I can't swear to it.
Purebred black Maines, Simmental, Limousine and Gelbvieh have enough generations of consistent breeding to provide heterosis on Angus cows. Pb ChiAngus, Limflex, Balancer plus many multigeneration Maine/Angus and Simmi/Angus also have enough consistency to successfully and predictably cross on breeds outside of their own base breeds. Probably not the distinct of advantages of something like a true F1 Brahman x Hereford, but they certainly can and do work every day out in the country.

I give the Angus breed a lot of credit for a lot of things, but to call all other breeds a cesspool and the Angus not is just not accurate. They've got their share of problems beyond breed purity, including several different genetic defects being an issue at this time. I've read many Angus bull sale catalogs over the past 20 years, and most of them read pretty much the same for generations back. 100 or less (many of which are still closely related) very influential sires spread over hundreds of thousands of cows makes for a pretty shallow gene pool - I know there are bound to be some good outcross Angus out there somewhere, but can the average breeder find them, and are they even willing to use them if they do? And whether it's one breeders fault or the whole breeds fault, the fact remains today and has been for years that there are a whole lot of poor quality registered Angus seedstock being sold. It's to the point around here that calling them pb Angus at the sale barns is a disadvantage in some buyers eyes - if the quality's not there, it deteriorates the reputation pretty quickly.

I'm not saying there aren't lots and lots of good Angus cattle out there, but I am saying that if Angus breeders aren't willing to see their issues and try to correct them, the issues will continue to grow.