WichitaLineMan
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WichitaLineMan":1n65pr7i said:Frankly = the "anti-frankie"????
let me try and guess the content........""angus are ugly and stupid"" a real take home message :lol:frankly":2umfz1ey said:WichitaLineMan":2umfz1ey said:Frankly = the "anti-frankie"????
Check your pm linbred
ALACOWMAN":f8j3cpag said:let me try and guess the content........""angus are ugly and stupid"" a real take home message :lol:frankly":f8j3cpag said:WichitaLineMan":f8j3cpag said:Frankly = the "anti-frankie"????
Check your pm linbred
jscunn":1qx1ncam said:Ashton,
Here is my opinion on the question, I have some experience since we do it both ways (Hereford cows x Angus bull and Angus cows x Hereford bull).
Hereford Cows x Angus Bull
Pros
1. Hereford cows will be cheaper,
2. Easier to deal with if you tag at birth
3 Better selection of Angus Bulls
Cons
1 Pinkeye / cancer eye.
2. calves will be probably be lighter at weaning
3. udders on Hereford cows not as good usually
Angus Cows x Hereford Bull
Pros
1. stouter calves at weaning
2. quality cows are easier to find
3. no cancer eye and less pinkeye problems
4. better udders on the black cows (generally)
cons
1. more protective mothers at birth (can be a problem if you tag and weigh calves at birth)
2. good hereford bulls are hard to find, cheaply
Personal opinion, you should buy some Baldie females and cross them with a terminal Angus bull, feed the calves out and really ring the bell on the carcass end of the deal. The true advantage of the baldie is the female, the steer calves gain pretty well but the 3/4 Angus hangs a better carcass and at the end of the day isnt that what we are producing..
http://www.pineridgeblackbaldie.com
how did you stand to breed those two together,,,, seems like on here, you got to hate one or the other.. are was it the money that took some of the sting out of itNorthern Rancher":1qwyf1pw said:It takes alot of bad handling to make quiet cattle wild but no amount of calm behavior will settle down the truly bad ones-Emulation 31 was a nutcase so people in their infinite wisdom have linebred the crap out of that line with the expected results. Bad handling will make a group tough to work-it's the 5-10% that show up in an otherwise easy bunch of cattle that make life interesting. Taking the breeds as a whole I'd say Herefords were quieter than Angus on the average. I've crossed both ways and really don't see a difference in the quality of F1 produced-you can breed good baldy cows to a billygoat and still get a good saleable calf. We used to run Charolais bulls on ours but it got so our British X females were bringing better money than our Charolais steers.
no whats hard is for me to listen to folks like you hypocrites nortexsook :cowboy:WichitaLineMan":34ax5d6d said:ALACOWMAN":34ax5d6d said:how did you stand to breed those two together,,,, seems like on here, you got to hate one or the other.. are was it the money that took some of the sting out of itNorthern Rancher":34ax5d6d said:It takes alot of bad handling to make quiet cattle wild but no amount of calm behavior will settle down the truly bad ones-Emulation 31 was a nutcase so people in their infinite wisdom have linebred the crap out of that line with the expected results. Bad handling will make a group tough to work-it's the 5-10% that show up in an otherwise easy bunch of cattle that make life interesting. Taking the breeds as a whole I'd say Herefords were quieter than Angus on the average. I've crossed both ways and really don't see a difference in the quality of F1 produced-you can breed good baldy cows to a billygoat and still get a good saleable calf. We used to run Charolais bulls on ours but it got so our British X females were bringing better money than our Charolais steers.
:cowboy:
Don't be retarded. I think most Hereford folks here are just trying to get the word out that Hereford bulls are what needs to be used on all those black cows.
I have never advocated (nor seen any of the other Hereford folks advocate) a straight Hereford commercial herd.
I know it is hard for you not to be stupid but please try.
I understand that.. i was using hereford bulls long before nortexsook. was trying to figure out what breed to raisejscunn":16hyefdp said:Alacowman,
Money takes the sting out of most anything.
Seriously they are very complimentary breeds, the genepools are big enough in both breeds that you can find the same type of animal. When crossing the European to the Angus or Hereford I feel your calves arent as consistent. Some are definitely better but some are too big or just too different. It gets hard to put a set of 5 -10 heifers together that all look the same.
I agree with NR cant find many Emulation 31 cattle that are "house broke". Dont feel like getting chased by my own cow.
PDF,
In our herd of mixed Hereford and Angus females the most docile one in the group is without question an Angus cow. She comes to me to get her back scratched some days.
thats true.. but you'r not fooling me asshole so its best if we stop nowWichitaLineMan":1sy8t3xn said:ALACOWMAN":1sy8t3xn said:I understand that.. i was using hereford bulls long before nortexsook. was trying to figure out what breed to raisejscunn":1sy8t3xn said:Alacowman,
Money takes the sting out of most anything.
Seriously they are very complimentary breeds, the genepools are big enough in both breeds that you can find the same type of animal. When crossing the European to the Angus or Hereford I feel your calves arent as consistent. Some are definitely better but some are too big or just too different. It gets hard to put a set of 5 -10 heifers together that all look the same.
I agree with NR cant find many Emulation 31 cattle that are "house broke". Dont feel like getting chased by my own cow.
PDF,
In our herd of mixed Hereford and Angus females the most docile one in the group is without question an Angus cow. She comes to me to get her back scratched some days.
Being older don't make you smarter ;-)
As in all things cattle, there are no 100% anythings. Our too tame bull and or way too tame cow begat a calf that is a total lunatic. The other calves look at her like they're trying to figure out waht her problem is.jscunn":1jkdswn4 said:I agree with NR cant find many Emulation 31 cattle that are "house broke". Dont feel like getting chased by my own cow.
PDF,
In our herd of mixed Hereford and Angus females the most docile one in the group is without question an Angus cow. She comes to me to get her back scratched some days.
the Debter sale is saturday :cowboy: ,,do you know the flemings?jscunn":3n0mdu86 said:Alacowman,
Personally if I was starting or changing direction to just raising and selling calves at the auction. I would go with a F1 baldie (hereford x angus) female with a black or blaze face simmental bull. (Make sure he is homo black and polled).
If I wanted to retain the steers all the way thru harvest I would change to an Angus bull on the F1 female.
If I was intending on selling the heifers as replacements I would try and create the F1 (hereford bull x Angus cows or vice versa)
Just my $0.02 worth, if you want a refund on it you have to wait 6-8 weeks and pay the shipping and handling charges :lol:
WichitaLineMan said:...I have never advocated (nor seen any of the other Hereford folks advocate) a straight Hereford commercial herd...
SRBeef":1ytfnttw said:.......................... alot of that is due to the heterosis not so much either parent once you venture out of thepredictabilityWichitaLineMan...I have never advocated (nor seen any of the other Hereford folks advocate) a straight Hereford commercial herd...[/quote:1ytfnttw said:I have not followed this thread very closely so just happened across this quote.
While I am still very much a beginner, fwiw I would volunteer to be the first to advocate a straight Hereford commercial herd.
I tried keeping a few baldy heifers which were the offspring of a high-priced Angus bull on a couple commercial Hereford cows I bought bred and do not care to have any more.
They are the only ones I have had calving problems with so far. Partially my fault for letting them graze corn but there were Herefords grazing with them. The calves were just too big for a heifer. Hereford cows and heifers under similar conditions and same sire did not have any calving problems.
Calving ease is related to the dam as well as the sire.
I think that eventually I can get to a pure Hereford commercial herd with similar carcass production as an Angus but retaining the Hereford strong points. Except they will not be black. jmho. Jim
SRBeef":tbq9d5lz said: