I read it. I read your explanation again and the original, again. I don't understand. I have used and been around Pits pretty extensively and have not seen what you are talking about or I am not understanding what you are trying to describe.
A big shout out to my Amish neighbors
- Thread starter jltrent
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That is not true, either.
simme
Old Dumb Guy
My experience is that most pit bulls are gentle friendly dogs. How many have you owned?
Travlr
Well-known member
You said, "They knew they had a human aggressive dog and did nothing about it. They also should not have turned any dog loose with a new kid in the yard, unsupervised."
When I had said, "a dog that my grandson (who was playing with his friend, a person living with the dog) had played with previously," and never said the dog had been aggressive before.
So that's why I asked you to reread...
I'm not sure what you are misunderstanding about what I wrote. You have never seen what? A focused dog attack? The way dogs are bred for specific abilities and behaviors? Most people haven't seen a focused attack, even pit owners. I'm pretty sure you know that dogs have been bred for purposes using artificial selection. and that dogs bred to do a job are specialists.
The beast (Blue Pit) that kept my buddy from committing suicide while he was homeless and fighting addiction. He would pass out and she would sleep beside him on a cot under a tarp made like a tent. We took her in until we could re-home her so he could turn himself in for warrants and to get cleaned up. He wouldn't go in until he knew she was taken care of because he didnt trust the polie not to hurt her. She laid like that with my son for a couple days before she perked up. She would ride like a person in a vehicle front seat or back. She has a good home now.
I never let dogs on furniture but made an exception for her. There is a special place for animals like that.
I never let dogs on furniture but made an exception for her. There is a special place for animals like that.
I have been around a lot of dogs trained for different jobs and participated in that training. I am pretty experienced with harnessing their natural abilities.
How does that relate to a Pit Bull? As a breed standard, they are not trained and bred to bite or attack people. In fact, they are purposely not used for that job by police and others because they are not naturally human aggressive.
Travlr
Well-known member
That's most people's experience. They've never seen a triggered dog.
Interestingly, pit bulls are no more likely to bite than other breeds, which seems like a contradiction. The breed most likely to bite is the Chihuahua. And Cocker Spaniels are said to have the worst bite. But there are a lot of pits that carry the tenacity genes and will never be triggered. That doesn't make them safe.
Travlr
Well-known member
The reason they are not used is because they are difficult to call off. If they carry the trait to be focused in an attack they don't release on command. And it's difficult for even experienced trainers to reliably determine how focused a pit will be. Just like bird dogs, some are less capable and some are hyper-capable.
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Again, not true. How many Pits have you trained?
I have owned, trained, and used with Pits for the last 20+ years. There is no focused gene. It's the same with birds dogs are any other animal, it's natural ability plus brains plus environment. I don't care if it's cow dogs, pit bulls, or bird dogs, it's all the same.
Travlr
Well-known member
(facepalm)
It's really strange when someone has a single year of experience that they've repeated twenty+ times and they think they know it all. Where the h*ll do you think natural ability comes from??? The tooth fairy?
Genetics 101...
TexasJerseyMilker
Well-known member
We were discussing The Amish. Some Amish breed pet dogs for sale. There are many breeders of dogs of all breeds by people that would be considered is puppy mills.
That doesn't make sense, again. A single year of experience? I think it's a jab but I'm not sure. It's just ramblings with no point.
What genetics make a Pit Bull attack a person?
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wbvs58
Well-known member
I don't care what genetics are there, I have a firm belief that dogs like Rottweilers, Pit Bulls that have very powerfull jaws and can inflict a lot of damage should not be allowed to associate with kids, no matter how friendly they are they are not fool proof. I have been involved in many situations usually to put the dog down when a much loved pet has inflicted a lot of damage to a child or a child's friend.
Ken
Ken
Cattle can do just as much damage but when kids lay on them and sit on them every one praises it. There is no difference.
If a kid was walking through the pasture with his friend and a cow trampled the kid would every one be blaming the cow and the breed of cow?
Aren't Holstein Bulls known to be more aggressive due to their envirmonet?
Aren't Holstein Bulls known to be more aggressive due to their envirmonet?
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Travlr
Well-known member
Most aggression attributed to breeds is the result of a genetic trait that is either minimal or enhanced. We select for docility when we look at a bulls EPD stats. Of course environment can be a contributing factor.
We breed dogs for our own purposes. Most of the abilities we select for are based in the "prey drive". Herding, pointing birds, retrieving, and rat terriers going into a frantic hysteria to kill rats have all been the result of humans selecting animals that exhibited those abilities as a prey drive and being selected to be bred with each other... concentrating the genes involved in specific abilities.
It isn't that pits are bred to "attack humans". It's that they are bred to focus in an attack... no matter what they are triggered by. If they are triggered by another dog, a horse, or a duck, they focus on that trigger. They have been bred to focus and then to exhibit tenacity and keep focused until the target is destroyed. Training and human contact and environment are all factors... but the underlying genetics is where the tenacity genes are concentrated (or not)
In a litter of pups with a specific bred-in ability, whatever breed is involved, some pups may carry very little ability while others may carry enhanced ability. You can't look at the dogs and tell which of them will be better at their jobs than the others.
With traits that are expressed through multiple genes you can get a wide variety of potential. This is why crossbred pits may be more dangerous than purebreds. A crossbreed can carry more focus and and less tenacity... or it could be the opposite. This is why some dogs are more likely to bite more targets than others.
And you mentioned your own experience. the statistics on what percentage of pit types are involved in biting isn't well documented compared to what percentage are involved in human deaths, for obvious reasons. But the vast majority of pit will never bite, much less kill a person. That does not mean they don't have the genetic makeup that could be triggered.
I hope you are coming to this in good faith with a mind to consider the science involved. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt by explaining this.
chaded
Well-known member
We kind of get off track at times but I don't think I would of ever imagined we would end up talking about pitbulls after starting about jtrents good experience with his Amish neighbors putting up a building for him. Lol.
Logan52
Well-known member
Once you are attacked by a Pit Bull beside your own barn, the memory tends to color almost any discussion about animals or barns.
Travlr
Well-known member
Do Amish people own a lot of dogs? If they own dogs, is it seen as something useful to the family/farm, or a show of something they don't really need? And if they own dogs, how do they treat them? Are the dogs well trained? What kind of dogs do Amish people own?
Ouachita
Well-known member
Hang on a bit longer and we'll be talking about boobs. Patience!
