Black Baldy Program

[WichitaLineMan]

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[frankly]

Frankly = the "anti-frankie"????

Check your pm linbred

 

[ALACOWMAN]

Frankly = the "anti-frankie"????

Check your pm linbred

let me try and guess the content........""angus are ugly and stupid"" a real take home message :lol:

 

[frankly]

Frankly = the "anti-frankie"????

Check your pm linbred

let me try and guess the content........""angus are ugly and stupid"" a real take home message :lol:

Something to that effect.

 

[pdfangus]

Ashton,
Here is my opinion on the question, I have some experience since we do it both ways (Hereford cows x Angus bull and Angus cows x Hereford bull).

Hereford Cows x Angus Bull
Pros
1. Hereford cows will be cheaper,
2. Easier to deal with if you tag at birth
3 Better selection of Angus Bulls

Cons
1 Pinkeye / cancer eye.
2. calves will be probably be lighter at weaning
3. udders on Hereford cows not as good usually


Angus Cows x Hereford Bull
Pros
1. stouter calves at weaning
2. quality cows are easier to find
3. no cancer eye and less pinkeye problems
4. better udders on the black cows (generally)

cons
1. more protective mothers at birth (can be a problem if you tag and weigh calves at birth)
2. good hereford bulls are hard to find, cheaply

Personal opinion, you should buy some Baldie females and cross them with a terminal Angus bull, feed the calves out and really ring the bell on the carcass end of the deal. The true advantage of the baldie is the female, the steer calves gain pretty well but the 3/4 Angus hangs a better carcass and at the end of the day isnt that what we are producing..

http://www.pineridgeblackbaldie.com

SCOTT hits a home run with this analysis. I agree wholeheartedly.
I would add that there are lots of angus cattle just as docile as herefords. The last angus bull I sold was a three year old and I called him away from the cows and led him into the guys trailer with a feed bucket. the guy was thrilled to find such a nice bull with such a nice temperment. Has already called me about one next year.
Cattle will reflect the temperment of the person who deals with them the most. There is a genetic factor too but handling is the most important.

 

[Northern Rancher]

It takes alot of bad handling to make quiet cattle wild but no amount of calm behavior will settle down the truly bad ones-Emulation 31 was a nutcase so people in their infinite wisdom have linebred the crap out of that line with the expected results. Bad handling will make a group tough to work-it's the 5-10% that show up in an otherwise easy bunch of cattle that make life interesting. Taking the breeds as a whole I'd say Herefords were quieter than Angus on the average. I've crossed both ways and really don't see a difference in the quality of F1 produced-you can breed good baldy cows to a billygoat and still get a good saleable calf. We used to run Charolais bulls on ours but it got so our British X females were bringing better money than our Charolais steers.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

It takes alot of bad handling to make quiet cattle wild but no amount of calm behavior will settle down the truly bad ones-Emulation 31 was a nutcase so people in their infinite wisdom have linebred the crap out of that line with the expected results. Bad handling will make a group tough to work-it's the 5-10% that show up in an otherwise easy bunch of cattle that make life interesting. Taking the breeds as a whole I'd say Herefords were quieter than Angus on the average. I've crossed both ways and really don't see a difference in the quality of F1 produced-you can breed good baldy cows to a billygoat and still get a good saleable calf. We used to run Charolais bulls on ours but it got so our British X females were bringing better money than our Charolais steers.

how did you stand to breed those two together,,,, seems like on here, you got to hate one or the other.. are was it the money that took some of the sting out of it
:cowboy:

 

[WichitaLineMan]

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[ALACOWMAN]

It takes alot of bad handling to make quiet cattle wild but no amount of calm behavior will settle down the truly bad ones-Emulation 31 was a nutcase so people in their infinite wisdom have linebred the crap out of that line with the expected results. Bad handling will make a group tough to work-it's the 5-10% that show up in an otherwise easy bunch of cattle that make life interesting. Taking the breeds as a whole I'd say Herefords were quieter than Angus on the average. I've crossed both ways and really don't see a difference in the quality of F1 produced-you can breed good baldy cows to a billygoat and still get a good saleable calf. We used to run Charolais bulls on ours but it got so our British X females were bringing better money than our Charolais steers.

how did you stand to breed those two together,,,, seems like on here, you got to hate one or the other.. are was it the money that took some of the sting out of it
:cowboy:

Don't be retarded. I think most Hereford folks here are just trying to get the word out that Hereford bulls are what needs to be used on all those black cows.

I have never advocated (nor seen any of the other Hereford folks advocate) a straight Hereford commercial herd.

I know it is hard for you not to be stupid but please try.

no whats hard is for me to listen to folks like you hypocrites nortexsook :cowboy:

 

[jscunn]

Alacowman,
Money takes the sting out of most anything.

Seriously they are very complimentary breeds, the genepools are big enough in both breeds that you can find the same type of animal. When crossing the European to the Angus or Hereford I feel your calves arent as consistent. Some are definitely better but some are too big or just too different. It gets hard to put a set of 5 -10 heifers together that all look the same.

I agree with NR cant find many Emulation 31 cattle that are "house broke". Dont feel like getting chased by my own cow.

PDF,
In our herd of mixed Hereford and Angus females the most docile one in the group is without question an Angus cow. She comes to me to get her back scratched some days.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

Alacowman,
Money takes the sting out of most anything.

Seriously they are very complimentary breeds, the genepools are big enough in both breeds that you can find the same type of animal. When crossing the European to the Angus or Hereford I feel your calves arent as consistent. Some are definitely better but some are too big or just too different. It gets hard to put a set of 5 -10 heifers together that all look the same.

I agree with NR cant find many Emulation 31 cattle that are "house broke". Dont feel like getting chased by my own cow.

PDF,
In our herd of mixed Hereford and Angus females the most docile one in the group is without question an Angus cow. She comes to me to get her back scratched some days.

I understand that.. i was using hereford bulls long before nortexsook. was trying to figure out what breed to raise

 

[WichitaLineMan]

.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

Alacowman,
Money takes the sting out of most anything.

Seriously they are very complimentary breeds, the genepools are big enough in both breeds that you can find the same type of animal. When crossing the European to the Angus or Hereford I feel your calves arent as consistent. Some are definitely better but some are too big or just too different. It gets hard to put a set of 5 -10 heifers together that all look the same.

I agree with NR cant find many Emulation 31 cattle that are "house broke". Dont feel like getting chased by my own cow.

PDF,
In our herd of mixed Hereford and Angus females the most docile one in the group is without question an Angus cow. She comes to me to get her back scratched some days.

I understand that.. i was using hereford bulls long before nortexsook. was trying to figure out what breed to raise

Being older don't make you smarter ;-)

thats true.. but you'r not fooling me asshole so its best if we stop now

 

[dun]

I agree with NR cant find many Emulation 31 cattle that are "house broke". Dont feel like getting chased by my own cow.

PDF,
In our herd of mixed Hereford and Angus females the most docile one in the group is without question an Angus cow. She comes to me to get her back scratched some days.

As in all things cattle, there are no 100% anythings. Our too tame bull and or way too tame cow begat a calf that is a total lunatic. The other calves look at her like they're trying to figure out waht her problem is.
EXT is supposed to sire wild cattle, yet our vet tried an experminet of breeding an EXT daughter to EXT and the resulting daughter back to EXT. That breeding resulted in a daughter that he culled only because it was so darn small it barely looked like a yearling. He still has the other parts of the EXT experiment and they're as calm and easy handling as dogs. To trailer them he puts the trailer in the pasture and walks in with a bucket of cubes. They follow him in and he ducks out. No fuss or bother.

 

[jscunn]

Alacowman,
Personally if I was starting or changing direction to just raising and selling calves at the auction. I would go with a F1 baldie (hereford x angus) female with a black or blaze face simmental bull. (Make sure he is homo black and polled).

If I wanted to retain the steers all the way thru harvest I would change to an Angus bull on the F1 female.

If I was intending on selling the heifers as replacements I would try and create the F1 (hereford bull x Angus cows or vice versa)

Just my $0.02 worth, if you want a refund on it you have to wait 6-8 weeks and pay the shipping and handling charges :lol:

 

[jscunn]

Dun,
I agree that is why I said many and not any.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

Alacowman,
Personally if I was starting or changing direction to just raising and selling calves at the auction. I would go with a F1 baldie (hereford x angus) female with a black or blaze face simmental bull. (Make sure he is homo black and polled).

If I wanted to retain the steers all the way thru harvest I would change to an Angus bull on the F1 female.

If I was intending on selling the heifers as replacements I would try and create the F1 (hereford bull x Angus cows or vice versa)

Just my $0.02 worth, if you want a refund on it you have to wait 6-8 weeks and pay the shipping and handling charges :lol:

the Debter sale is saturday :cowboy: ,,do you know the flemings?

 

[SRBeef]

...I have never advocated (nor seen any of the other Hereford folks advocate) a straight Hereford commercial herd...

I have not followed this thread very closely so just happened across this quote.

While I am still very much a beginner, fwiw I would volunteer to be the first to advocate a straight Hereford commercial herd.

I tried keeping a few baldy heifers which were the offspring of a high-priced Angus bull on a couple commercial Hereford cows I bought bred. I do not care to have any more heifers like these.

They are the only ones I have had calving problems with so far. Partially my fault for letting them graze corn but there were Herefords grazing with them. The calves were just too big for a heifer. Hereford cows and heifers under similar conditions and same sire did not have any calving problems.

Calving ease is related to the dam as well as the sire.

I think that eventually I can get to a pure Hereford commercial herd with similar carcass production as an Angus but retaining the Hereford strong points.

Main draw back would be at the sale barn (if I sold them that way) would be they will not be black and probably be docked for that. I could use some spray paint I guess. jmho. Jim

 

[ALACOWMAN]

I have not followed this thread very closely so just happened across this quote.

While I am still very much a beginner, fwiw I would volunteer to be the first to advocate a straight Hereford commercial herd.

I tried keeping a few baldy heifers which were the offspring of a high-priced Angus bull on a couple commercial Hereford cows I bought bred and do not care to have any more.

They are the only ones I have had calving problems with so far. Partially my fault for letting them graze corn but there were Herefords grazing with them. The calves were just too big for a heifer. Hereford cows and heifers under similar conditions and same sire did not have any calving problems.

Calving ease is related to the dam as well as the sire.

I think that eventually I can get to a pure Hereford commercial herd with similar carcass production as an Angus but retaining the Hereford strong points. Except they will not be black. jmho. Jim

.......................... alot of that is due to the heterosis not so much either parent once you venture out of thepredictability

 

[KNERSIE]

[

I run a straight hereford commercial herd, mostly because I have my own hereford bulls to use as yearlings before selling them so bull cost can't even be compared to what it would be buying different breed bulls and thus the economics will never even out even with the supposed free lunch of heterosis and secondly because I can sell the calves for a premium because of past performance in the feedlot I sell to. There is also a big demand for quality hereford replacement heifers and since I have just about reached my target as far as herd size goes it offers another marketing option. I'm not denying the fact that heterosis could be advantageous, but in my situation the straight herefords makes more sense.

I am toying with the idea of AI-ing a few heifers to angus bulls just to see how the resulting heifers will sell, but haven't found any semen I like that is readily available.