Registered or commercial Hereford

[tncattle]

I've been throwing this decision around in my head for awhile now. Thought I'd see what pros & cons y'all can come up with as many of you have forgotten more about cattle than I know. Either way I will start small but more small if I go with registered only and choose to stay that way.

 

[dun]

Unless you plan on staying the course with registered Herefords, the only advantage they would have over commercial is EPDs and probably more accuart pedigree information. As I undersdtand it the registered game for Herefords can be pretty pricey dealing with the association stuff

 

[SRBeef]

I've been throwing this decision around in my head for awhile now. Thought I'd see what pros & cons y'all can come up with as many of you have forgotten more about cattle than I know. Either way I will start small but more small if I go with registered only and choose to stay that way.

I think the first question to ask yourself is what am I going to sell and how much to whom and at what price. That may guide you as to registered vs commercial cows/heifers. I lean toward a registered bull even on commercial cows to start. with a registered bull at least for half of your calves you know what you have to start... more or less.

In any case, reg or comm'l, I would still start with a few genuine quality animals instead of more of lower quality. However more dollars paid does not necessarily equate to better quality. Better to deal with someone you know and trust but may be a bit higher priced. jmho.

What are you intending to do with these Herefords? What are you going to sell?

Jim

 

[tncattle]

I did look at some bred Hereford cows yesterday and the guy wanted $850 each. There were 7 of them and 3 of them were okay but the other 4 were pretty good quality. They were all 3 and 4 yrs. old and he had all their calves from last yr. so I could look at them also. I'm still thinking I should look at some higher quality registered Herefords and some sales coming up.

 

[bigbull338]

if your going to go with reg cows,you better be willing to stay with them no matter what.an never go for # in a reg herd,always an i mean always go for quality.but do not go hogwild buying reg cattle.an never pay more than you can recoop from the cow.

 

[JHH]

You need to do what ever works for you. Their is a guy about 100 miles from me that has Purebred herefords and he sells 40 bulls a year. They are not registered and cant be registered. He got tired of all the fees from the association and has done very well.

I think good cattle and reputation sell no matter if they have a piece of paper or not.

 

[JHH]

if your going to go with reg cows,you better be willing to stay with them no matter what.an never go for # in a reg herd,always an i mean always go for quality.but do not go hogwild buying reg cattle.an never pay more than you can recoop from the cow.

That last statement is a very wise one. I have seen some guys paying 2500 for some pairs here latly and that does not pencil out.

 

[bigbull338]

ive been in an out of the reg thing twice.an ive learned if a cow wont make profit you dont need her.but if your going reg,you need to cull your heifer calves hard.i was on the fence about a heifer calf,an i looked at her size an she is almost as big as her momma.so she will get to stay.

 

[CPL]

IMO 2500 is not bad for a quality registered cow/calf pair, especially if the cow is bred back.

Yeah those 1500-1800 "registered" cows might seem like a "good deal" but their average (or in some cases below average) progeny don't do any good in trying to build a good cowherd/reputation.

The registered deal is very much different than commerical operations. Its just like any other economic situation, the higher risk (in this case paying more $$ for a cow) can be justified by the potential for a higher reward (more $$ for their progeny).

Quality > Registration Papers, so I would reccomend that if you're going to go into the registration deal you do your fair share of research on Livestock Evaluation. It does not matter whether they have papers, are out of a great bull, or anything if the quality is not there.

 

[novaman]

What are your plans for the resulting calves? Are you planning on selling breeding bulls and replacement heifers? I contemplated getting into registered Holsteins but it wouldn't be worth it for what I do. All my heifers are retained and I don't raise bulls. I would realize no added income with the animals being registered but I would have the added expense of registering the animals.

 

[tncattle]

It seems in my area Herefords are making a come back if you will. It also seems that many guys with all black cattle are realizing that with either Hereford cows or a Hereford bull they can increase their profits. So I guess from that view commercial makes sense but I'm thinking of selling good quality commercial bulls and/or replacement females. So there is where I struggle with starting with the very best quality I can.

 

[LFF]

IMO 2500 is not bad for a quality registered cow/calf pair, especially if the cow is bred back.

Yeah those 1500-1800 "registered" cows might seem like a "good deal" but their average (or in some cases below average) progeny don't do any good in trying to build a good cowherd/reputation.

The registered deal is very much different than commerical operations. Its just like any other economic situation, the higher risk (in this case paying more $$ for a cow) can be justified by the potential for a higher reward (more $$ for their progeny).

Quality > Registration Papers, so I would reccomend that if you're going to go into the registration deal you do your fair share of research on Livestock Evaluation. It does not matter whether they have papers, are out of a great bull, or anything if the quality is not there.

:shock: So if a registered cow is offered for sale at a price of less than 2500 it raises a red flag meaning that she is inferior? I 've heard others in the registered business say something very similar.

I suppose that I should never sell any registered cows under 2500, if you believe that way it may be correct.
Any future registered cattle that are not able to bring twice the value of commercial cattle are not worth messing with? :?:

I'm really very comfortable with that ideal, if I can be absolute certian that the cows, bulls, and heifers that I have to sell for less are killed and not allow back into others herds.

I won't care what other registered herds do, however if you want a registered Hereford with the LFF prefix then expect to pay considerably more than commercial prices? :?:

Is this really what you are implying, because that's the way it comming across? :?:

LFF

 

[CPL]

IMO 2500 is not bad for a quality registered cow/calf pair, especially if the cow is bred back.

Yeah those 1500-1800 "registered" cows might seem like a "good deal" but their average (or in some cases below average) progeny don't do any good in trying to build a good cowherd/reputation.

The registered deal is very much different than commerical operations. Its just like any other economic situation, the higher risk (in this case paying more $$ for a cow) can be justified by the potential for a higher reward (more $$ for their progeny).

Quality > Registration Papers, so I would reccomend that if you're going to go into the registration deal you do your fair share of research on Livestock Evaluation. It does not matter whether they have papers, are out of a great bull, or anything if the quality is not there.

:shock: So if a registered cow is offered for sale at a price of less than 2500 it raises a red flag meaning that she is inferior? I 've heard others in the registered business say something very similar.

I suppose that I should never sell any registered cows under 2500, if you believe that way it may be correct.
Any future registered cattle that are not able to bring twice the value of commercial cattle are not worth messing with? :?:

I'm really very comfortable with that ideal, if I can be absolute certian that the cows, bulls, and heifers that I have to sell for less are killed and not allow back into others herds.

I won't care what other registered herds do, however if you want a registered Hereford with the LFF prefix then expect to pay considerably more than commercial prices? :?:

Is this really what you are implying, because that's the way it comming across? :?:

LFF

Ken-

When did I say anything under 2500 would be flagged? Where did I say nothing under 2500 should be sold as registered stock?

Basically what it comes down to is that the 2500 price range was thrown out there as a price that was too high for a registered pair and I simply said (or what I tried to say) is I have no problem paying 2500 if the quality is there. Now if you can find the same quality at a price less than that go for it, but typically at sales with large amounts of bidders thats not going to happen.

It's not so much the price that I'm concerned about, its the typical quality associated with that price range.

You're not going to build a progressive cow herd when you go out and buy the lower end cows at production sales. I would rather invest in higher quality cows and that typically means paying more per head.(and that's not to say deals can be found)


Back to the original thread, I know of alot of guys who have commerical bred heifer sales and make out very well with them. The problem is you typically have to have the reputation, quality, and numbers to have a large enough sale to attract the bidders.

 

[JHH]

CPL what I was trying to say was that for starting out I think 2500 for a pair that the cow is not bred back is to high. By the time you pencil everthing out she is most likely not going to make you as much as 1500 pairs.

If you have the outlet to sell some of those 2500 pairs then that makes it a little easier. i dont think I can sell 2500 pairs even if the quality is there. You kind of need to have a reputation.

Using A-I on those 1500 cows will improve your herd to. Alot of improvement can be made in one generation. It is the consistency that is hard to get.

 

[Black Coos]

I have had Reg. stock and like full blood cows...But when it comes to breeding cattle, it is just hard to pass on Hybrid Vigor, you know the 15% extra for staying away from Full blood stock...Do not get me wrong 50% of my cow herd is fullblood Black Angus, the rest at least, 50% B.Angus or close....The calves all got pretty white or dirty white faces..

That is where a Hereford Bull is excellent, making BAH Baldies, and the Black Angus cow show her inner strengths thur the calves on the ground..

 

[angus9259]

I did look at some bred Hereford cows yesterday and the guy wanted $850 each. There were 7 of them and 3 of them were okay but the other 4 were pretty good quality. They were all 3 and 4 yrs. old and he had all their calves from last yr. so I could look at them also. I'm still thinking I should look at some higher quality registered Herefords and some sales coming up.

I'd pay $850 for a 3-4 year old bred cow right now. My last open slaughters were almost $800.

 

[angus9259]

IMO 2500 is not bad for a quality registered cow/calf pair, especially if the cow is bred back.

Yeah those 1500-1800 "registered" cows might seem like a "good deal" but their average (or in some cases below average) progeny don't do any good in trying to build a good cowherd/reputation.

The best registered cow I own cost me $1100 bred three years ago. I've paid $2500 for 3n1s that same year that didn't pan out. Do your research, take your shot with what you know, but the price does not dictate quality.

Also, if you're going registered, don't be afraid of age. With age you get more data on progeny for proof of quality and a lower price. Registered heifers and bred heifers are almost ridiculously high and have no proof. If I were starting again, I'd buy a group of 5-8 year olds with some data and proof, ai, and retain my heifers. Actually, I don't retain my heifers much either. They sell for twice what a 6 year old with proof sells for so I sell my heifers and buy older cows. The heifers I sell OUGHT to be great and worth retaining, but a cow ain't great till she's been great.

 

[CPL]

Do your research, take your shot with what you know, but the price does not dictate quality.

Exactly, but more often than not quality comes with extra price. Not always, and "deals" are out there, but more often than not the average registered cow costs more than the average commerical cow.

I still believe that if you are trying to have a top of the line progressive cowherd in order to sell registered genetics to commerical producers and other registered breeders, you're going to have to invest more into your genetics than you would into a commerical herd.

Like I said before Quality > Registration Papers, but I guess I should also add Quality > Price as well.

 

[novaman]

I understand that quality usually comes with a price. My question is why would anyone spend $2500+ on a cow and expect to get her to pay that off and eventually make money? I would rather spend bigger money on a good quality bull as he is half of your future genetics (on the cows he breeds). One cow will only produce a small percentage of the future genetics.

 

[dun]

I understand that quality usually comes with a price. My question is why would anyone spend $2500+ on a cow and expect to get her to pay that off and eventually make money? I would rather spend bigger money on a good quality bull as he is half of your future genetics (on the cows he breeds). One cow will only produce a small percentage of the future genetics.

When a couple of her daughters sell for the same 2500 or a bull for 5000 it seems that would pretty well answer that. It's always a crap shoot