Registered cattle

[bscattle]

I know how to register a dog with the AKC, and I know horses have a lot of different organization to register horse. Is this the same for cattle?

Do you get more money at the sale barn when your cattle are registered?

 

[wbvs58]

No, some commercial cattle are every bit as good as registered cattle. To get the best money you have to have quality animals being registered or not but as well as having quality you have to present them well. A group of similar aged animals producing an even line, been on good feed to give good growth from birth until weaning and beyond depending on when you market them will give you the best chance of getting good money.

Ken

 

[sstterry]

As a general rule, registered cattle do not bring more at the sale barn. But, if you are selling breeding stock, then it can make a big difference.

 

[Warren Allison]

Each cattle breed association, like horse breeds, has a registry. As a general rule, you wouldn't carry registered cattle to a local sale barn, unless they were having a registered cattle sale. But yes, if there were 2 bulls, let's say, equal and almost identical, one with papers and one without, sellimng by the head.....the registered one will bring a little more. Or the grade one a little les, depending on how you want to look at it .Knowing what it is, how old, etc., is worth a little more, even at a locl cow sale. But, if you want to raise registered stock, you'd want to market them yourself or carry them to breed sales.

 

[alacowman1]

If selling at the stockyard is your goal..then raising registered breeding stock,is a waste of time and money..like building a rare muscle car and running it through a local car auction

 

[elkwc]

Around here actual performance data makes a difference. I know breeders who have quit registering their bull calves. They provide actual data. Their bulls sell as well or better than many registered bulls. Those selling at a sale barn usually sell for less unless a special sale.

 

[coachg]

I have been to the local sale barn and they will sometimes say this is a registered bull and here is his papers . That animal will usually sell to a local and bring a little more . If it's not dead old or has injuries. A lot of folks buy registered bulls , keep them for 4-5 years and then sell them . You get get a good buy on an older proven bull sometimes.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

You only want to raise registered stock if you are looking to sell quality replacement breeding stock.
Your STEERS won't be worth any more than a commercial steer. QUALITY of that steer will make the difference in a sale barn. Hopefully, if someone has registered stock, their steers are better quality - BUT - that is NOT always the case. Just depends on each breeding program - and what breed you are raising. If you choose a novelty breed, they don't always "fit" what a buyer is looking for.
To sell registered breeding stock, you need to build a reputation of quality cattle.

 

[Bestoutwest]

The registries are there to line the pockets of the big boys. It doesn't really do anything for you if you're not running a production sale, or have the ability to be in a production sale (ie bull test, state association sale). Even selling private party, I don't think that it adds enough $ value to the product to really make a difference, because in the end, they're all hamburger. The only thing I liked about buying registered stock is that you know the bloodlines, and it helps you breed to animals not too closely related.

 

[simme]

The registries are there to line the pockets of the big boys. It doesn't really do anything for you if you're not running a production sale, or have the ability to be in a production sale (ie bull test, state association sale). Even selling private party, I don't think that it adds enough $ value to the product to really make a difference, because in the end, they're all hamburger. The only thing I liked about buying registered stock is that you know the bloodlines, and it helps you breed to animals not too closely related.

I will offer an alternate view.

A breed association (registry) offers the opportunity to know the pedigree for many generations back. That may include information about ancestors, breed composition, cow families, genetic defects, polled/horned status, color, individual performance information, utilization of dna analysis, epd's, marketing programs, and other services.

"The registries are there to line the pockets of the big boys."

If that is the case, perhaps look for a different breed. The association should be there to serve the members and provide value. Some breed associations are more progressive than others in that regard.

 

[Warren Allison]

I recently took some cows and heifers to a sale for man Clay was working for. He has registerd CHi-Angus cows that he breeds ( AI) to Reg blck Simm bulls and reg black Simm cows that he breeds to reg Chi-angus bulls ( AI) . He uses sexed semen to produce heifers, These heifers are essentially commercial cows, but he sends a copy of the sire and dams papers with each one. Any he hasn't sold by 16 mos of age, he breeds to a reg black Beefmaster bull, WHen he sells these bred, or wioth a calf at their ie, o0r 3 N 1 deals, he includes q copy of the BM bull's papers, too. He gave me several binder notebooks with these copies in them, to give to the sale barn owner so he could stop the sale and talk about them when they got in the ring. A man came to me when I was waiting to unload, and asked about them. I showed him the paper work. He called the owner and made a deal $3500 for the pairs. And he paid the sale barn fees. I doubt the man knew anything at all about the Chi-ANg or black Simm bloodlines, and surely not the BM bull bloodlines. But, having these records showed the buyer that these were not culls, and that the breeder knew what he was doing. He included a sheet that showed their birth date, weaning weights, birth weights, birth date of the calf, breeding dates and vet records . This made the buyers confident in the purchase. Plus, these were VERY good cattle. No one who raises their own commercial replacements, that I have seen, have ever produced anything even close to the quality of these cattle. So yeah, papers can make a difference in price even at a local commercial cow sale. You knew everything about these cows that you would have known had you raised them yourself.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

@simme - I really appreciate your answer. I was trying to figure out a way to not pizz off @Bestoutwest and to word it so that it sounded just like what you did. But, I am not good with words. I blurt out what I'm thinking, and I tend to get people "excited".
You eloquently put all my thoughts into beautiful words!!! THANK YOU
I will add, that there are a lot of cattle that the owners maintain registration papers that are no better than Joe Blows up the road. Papers does NOT make an animal good. The breeding/breeder/management does.

 

[Travlr]

Just like any other business... the people with the best product know what the best product is and how to get it.

 

[Bestoutwest]

@simme - I really appreciate your answer. I was trying to figure out a way to not pizz off @Bestoutwest and to word it so that it sounded just like what you did. But, I am not good with words. I blurt out what I'm thinking, and I tend to get people "excited".
You eloquently put all my thoughts into beautiful words!!! THANK YOU
I will add, that there are a lot of cattle that the owners maintain registration papers that are no better than Joe Blows up the road. Papers does NOT make an animal good. The breeding/breeder/management does.

I get there's folks that love the registries, and they do fit in with the industry. But for the little guy, unless you're selling in a well promoted sale, there's not a real good reason to register your cattle. I just don't think it's beneficial if your end game is sell at the barn, or even sell private treaty on C-List, because you can only get so much doing that. Someone isn't going to pay $2K for a solid commercial cow, and honestly, probably won't pay that much for a solid AI heifer even with papers.

 

[Travlr]

I get there's folks that love the registries, and they do fit in with the industry. But for the little guy, unless you're selling in a well promoted sale, there's not a real good reason to register your cattle. I just don't think it's beneficial if your end game is sell at the barn, or even sell private treaty on C-List, because you can only get so much doing that. Someone isn't going to pay $2K for a solid commercial cow, and honestly, probably won't pay that much for a solid AI heifer even with papers.

Something else that needs to be said...

This idea that crossbred cattle now have "papers" is pretty ludicrous. This entire polluting of the breeds with outside genetics to get color, or anything else for that matter, is highly questionable.

 

[simme]

Something else that needs to be said...

This idea that crossbred cattle now have "papers" is pretty ludicrous. This entire polluting of the breeds with outside genetics to get color, or anything else for that matter, is highly questionable.

I will offer an alternate view. "Papers" are a record of ancestors, not evidence of genetic purity or superiority. The idea that the old breeds are "pure" is just wrong. Cows were not created with papers. A few hundred years ago, similar cattle in an area were accepted into a breed registry. Do you think that those first cattle accepted into the angus or hereford registry did not have any crossbreeding behind them through the ages? They were all angus or hereford for thousands of years even before any written records were kept? I suspect the situation is no different than the people in that area. I suspect there was some visitation and relocation in all those genetics.

If anyone thinks that American simmental, Simangus, beefmasters, brangus, etc are "polluted", they just need to be enlightened. They have "papers" and were developed to meet a need for cattle that excel in an environment. "polluted"? I don't think so. Some of those "pure" angus and polled herefords of the 50's and 60's have probably benefited from "pollution" as well.

Angus association says that everything needed for cattle is in the angus breed. No other genetics needed. Progressive breed associations recommend cross breeding. It gives longevity, heterosis, fertility and such.

Just my opinion.

 

[Named'em Tamed'em]

I get there's folks that love the registries, and they do fit in with the industry. But for the little guy, unless you're selling in a well promoted sale, there's not a real good reason to register your cattle. I just don't think it's beneficial if your end game is sell at the barn, or even sell private treaty on C-List, because you can only get so much doing that. Someone isn't going to pay $2K for a solid commercial cow, and honestly, probably won't pay that much for a solid AI heifer even with papers.

When you raise quality cattle with a pedigree you can get a premium on some. $2500-2800 isn't a bad profit on a 13 month old Registered Angus or Limflex bull for me. But on the same hand I'll eat a Registered heifer too, much to my vets dismay.

 

[Warren Allison]

I will offer an alternate view. "Papers" are a record of ancestors, not evidence of genetic purity or superiority. The idea that the old breeds are "pure" is just wrong. Cows were not created with papers. A few hundred years ago, similar cattle in an area were accepted into a breed registry. Do you think that those first cattle accepted into the angus or hereford registry did not have any crossbreeding behind them through the ages? They were all angus or hereford for thousands of years even before any written records were kept? I suspect the situation is no different than the people in that area. I suspect there was some visitation and relocation in all those genetics.

If anyone thinks that American simmental, Simangus, beefmasters, brangus, etc are "polluted", they just need to be enlightened. They have "papers" and were developed to meet a need for cattle that excel in an environment. "polluted"? I don't think so. Some of those "pure" angus and polled herefords of the 50's and 60's have probably benefited from "pollution" as well.

Angus association says that everything needed for cattle is in the angus breed. No other genetics needed. Progressive breed associations recommend cross breeding. It gives longevity, heterosis, fertility and such.

Just my opinion.

Exactly! A record of ancestry, A pedigree....will make your cross bred cattle sell for more money. A pedigree, vet records, DOB, weaning weight, birth weight. number of calves she produced. IT cost you nothing to keep accurate and maybe 10 cents to print off for buyers. Lots of registered cows sold at local auctions or private treaties. for little to no more than a similar quality. Now we aren't talking buying 5-figure cows or 6 figure bulls to breed for calves to sell at a local auction. The man I mentioned above had bought 30 reg Black Simm cows and 30 reg Chi-Angus cows when he started. Don't know if he joined both associations, or if you have to be a member to register or transfer...I dunno. He may have just kept the papers. and not transferred them to him self He didnt need to...the info he wants is on the papers, no matter who the registered owner is. Having that pedigree , and the other info, helped make those cross bred pairs bring $1000 more than other good pairs did that day. I fail to see what is "ludicrous" or "questionable" about that.

 

[Travlr]

Well it's definitely a strange world we live in. It used to be that if someone owned a purebred dog they would guard it diligently to protect it from being bred by another breed of dog. And they would be proud of the high quality product they produced when selling puppies because everyone knew what they were getting and what they could expect from their purchase.

Now a dog jumps the fence and the owner of the bitch calls it a "designer dog" and they charge more for it than for a purebred... and the buyer has no idea what they are getting. Two or more breeds with breed specific weaknesses like psychosis, hip dysplasia, allergies, or who knows what... combined to create a dog with the likelihood of being a carrier of any or all of the genetic anomalies.

And the public eats it up and brags about how much they paid for their mutt, as though paying more makes the dog a better animal and the owner smarter...

 

[Mountaintown Creek Ranch]

If we don't register our Wagyu cattle we can't get DNA checked to verify parentage, prediction of EPDs, check for genetic defects, fat type or tenderness rating.
Knowing this helps us to decide on crossing of cattle breeds for harvest.
If the livestock is enrolled in CAR, better known as complete animal reporting, then you do not have to pay to register calves !
Obviously the cattle that are being fed out for harvest are never registered.