Making the best black baldy cattle

[Clodhopper]

CB states that retaining heifers is a crapshoot on which ones will turn out to be good cows. Can tell he has no experience doing this. One thing I can assure someone is that I can save every heifer out of 100 cows of mine, and they will all turn out to be cows. No later culling will be necessary. I just don't, after generations of retaining them, have any that won't make cows. I may have a small percentage open when bred in a 70 day period, but even that is getting smaller and smaller.
Where in the world does those good cows he claims he buys come from? If everyone is broke saving heifers, how can there be commercial cows available? Accidently bred ones in the feedlot, I guess.
In order to gain net worth and retirement income, assets must be acculimated. If it all was about cash money, and how much can I make today, assets cannot be stockpiled.

CB, did not take Economics 101. It was a general education requirement or I would not have taken it - boring as watching paint dry. Nevertheless, I wanted an A , so I read the damm book. You just stated a fundamental principle of accumulating wealth! It is not just holding currency. It is the assets you hold. You get a gold star.

If it were all about cash, a guy like me wouldn't have a thing, since I've never made enough wages to pay all the bills and buy assets outright at the same time. The trick is to borrow money on something that makes money back, and pay cash for as much else as possible.

 

[Clodhopper]

CB makes some good points that ever one needs to consider but I agree what works for one does not work for all.

We buy and retain cattle. I cull just as many purchased cattle as retained cattle, if not more.

What I like about retaining them is any where along the way I can sell them and usually get real close to breaking even just on weight gain. I've got 2 heifers right now that have had their first calf and are bred back. I'm not real happy with them so I am going to sell them as bred 2nd calf heifers, or 3N1s. One man's trash is another man's treasure. As long as I am honest with the buyer and sell at what we both agree is fair, I have no problem with it. I will get my money back on them, or so close it won't matter.

Friend of mine just sent me a pic Friday of a black heifer he bought from me bred back to a tigerstripe bull. It has a good little red and white calf standing beside her. He's happy as can be. I sell off every thing that doesn't carry as much ear as I would like but a lot of people specifically want those so it works good for both of us.

You said the magic word... cull. We've all let emotion get in the way of culling decisions I'm sure, but a guy needs to be a hard azz when it comes to culling. I've bought and retained both as well, but I try to stick to principle when it comes to what I want long term. I have jumped on good deals of lesser quality, but they have to be a short term money maker.

 

[elkwc]

CB states that retaining heifers is a crapshoot on which ones will turn out to be good cows. Can tell he has no experience doing this. One thing I can assure someone is that I can save every heifer out of 100 cows of mine, and they will all turn out to be cows. No later culling will be necessary. I just don't, after generations of retaining them, have any that won't make cows. I may have a small percentage open when bred in a 70 day period, but even that is getting smaller and smaller.
Where in the world does those good cows he claims he buys come from? If everyone is broke saving heifers, how can there be commercial cows available? Accidently bred ones in the feedlot, I guess.
In order to gain net worth and retirement income, assets must be acculimated. If it all was about cash money, and how much can I make today, assets cannot be stockpiled.

+1 The same here. The cull rate on retained heifers is very low for us. The few we have culled have been mostly for docility. And some of those weren't bad and the new owners love them. Being that the lady I go with is in her 70's if one takes a little longer to pen or just a little flighty to handle we cull them. There hadn't been any culling for that when I started helping. In the last year we haven't culled any. The same can't be said about purchased females. And we have tried to be very selective in what we have bought. After the drought and everyone started building up their herds again many purchased females. Everyone I've talked to has had to cull deeper on most of them despite of where they came from or what they gave. The few exceptions were those bought from local reputable breeders. Which wasn't many as most of them were tying to build numbers back up also. If I purchase anymore it will be something I know something about.

To summarize my views I will post what I was told many years ago when I was a lot younger. That you can retain the top females you raise and develop your dream herd or at least the cowherd you set your goal to raise. Or you can go to the sale and purchase someone elses dream and culls. That is not to say that there isn't good females being sold at the sales. In today's world a person can also use AIing to help advance their herd. If a person is happy with buying cows every few years and raising someone elses dream cow or even trading them that is great. But in my opinion to develop a uniform herd that represents my desires the only way to get there is by retaining heifers. Look at some of the posters on this board like Nesi that shows his females and bulls that he has raised. To me I have more pride in something I made the breeding decisions on.

 

[dun]

We retained 3 2016 heifers from the spring crop. That was all the heifers we got out of the bull that went queer or at least lost his libido. They are sort of OK but they will be going to the salebarn as feeders this week. This is the first time that we didn;t breed the majority of the heifers. He was a decent bull but just seemed to fall apart while breeding the cows. When we preg checked he went on the trailer, only the one breeding season. He was out of a great cow and AI sired by one of the top bulls in the Red Angus breed. The cows sired by that bull turned out well, but his son sure didn;t

 

[Post Oak]

CB states that retaining heifers is a crapshoot on which ones will turn out to be good cows. Can tell he has no experience doing this. One thing I can assure someone is that I can save every heifer out of 100 cows of mine, and they will all turn out to be cows. No later culling will be necessary. I just don't, after generations of retaining them, have any that won't make cows. I may have a small percentage open when bred in a 70 day period, but even that is getting smaller and smaller.
Where in the world does those good cows he claims he buys come from? If everyone is broke saving heifers, how can there be commercial cows available? Accidently bred ones in the feedlot, I guess.
In order to gain net worth and retirement income, assets must be acculimated. If it all was about cash money, and how much can I make today, assets cannot be stockpiled.

+1 The same here. The cull rate on retained heifers is very low for us. The few we have culled have been mostly for docility. And some of those weren't bad and the new owners love them. Being that the lady I go with is in her 70's if one takes a little longer to pen or just a little flighty to handle we cull them. There hadn't been any culling for that when I started helping. In the last year we haven't culled any. The same can't be said about purchased females. And we have tried to be very selective in what we have bought. After the drought and everyone started building up their herds again many purchased females. Everyone I've talked to has had to cull deeper on most of them despite of where they came from or what they gave. The few exceptions were those bought from local reputable breeders. Which wasn't many as most of them were tying to build numbers back up also. If I purchase anymore it will be something I know something about.

To summarize my views I will post what I was told many years ago when I was a lot younger. That you can retain the top females you raise and develop your dream herd or at least the cowherd you set your goal to raise. Or you can go to the sale and purchase someone elses dream and culls. That is not to say that there isn't good females being sold at the sales. In today's world a person can also use AIing to help advance their herd. If a person is happy with buying cows every few years and raising someone elses dream cow or even trading them that is great. But in my opinion to develop a uniform herd that represents my desires the only way to get there is by retaining heifers. Look at some of the posters on this board like Nesi that shows his females and bulls that he has raised. To me I have more pride in something I made the breeding decisions on.

AMEN!

 

[WalnutCrest]

It appears some posters in this thread are confusing (intentionally or otherwise) the differences between profit, positive cash flow and increases in net worth.

At weaning, heifers can be retained, sold as future breeders or culled.
Before breeding, heifers can be retained, sold as future breeders or culled.
After breeding, heifers van be retained, sold as bred, sold as future breeders, or culled.
After calving the first time ...

... well you get the idea.

And each guy gets to mark different times they like to jump off the train on any given animal.

At this point in my herds development, I'm more inclined to sell heifers and buy back older cows than to sell cows and buy someone else's heifers.

 

[Muddy]

Are we gonna talking about black baldies or what?

 

[TexasBred]

CB states that retaining heifers is a crapshoot on which ones will turn out to be good cows. Can tell he has no experience doing this. One thing I can assure someone is that I can save every heifer out of 100 cows of mine, and they will all turn out to be cows. No later culling will be necessary. I just don't, after generations of retaining them, have any that won't make cows. I may have a small percentage open when bred in a 70 day period, but even that is getting smaller and smaller.
Where in the world does those good cows he claims he buys come from? If everyone is broke saving heifers, how can there be commercial cows available? Accidently bred ones in the feedlot, I guess.
In order to gain net worth and retirement income, assets must be acculimated. If it all was about cash money, and how much can I make today, assets cannot be stockpiled.

CB, did not take Economics 101. It was a general education requirement or I would not have taken it - boring as watching paint dry. Nevertheless, I wanted an A , so I read the damm book. You just stated a fundamental principle of accumulating wealth! It is not just holding currency. It is the assets you hold. You get a gold star.

Depends on the quality of the assets. I know folks worth many millions "on paper" that can hardly buy a meal at a restaurant because they have no cash or cash flow. Asset Rich......cash poor.

 

[Clodhopper]

Are we gonna talking about black baldies or what?

I'm ready to. I found some Line 1 cows that will be coming home this week! :banana: Let the Hereford bashing commence!

 

[Bright Raven]

CB states that retaining heifers is a crapshoot on which ones will turn out to be good cows. Can tell he has no experience doing this. One thing I can assure someone is that I can save every heifer out of 100 cows of mine, and they will all turn out to be cows. No later culling will be necessary. I just don't, after generations of retaining them, have any that won't make cows. I may have a small percentage open when bred in a 70 day period, but even that is getting smaller and smaller.
Where in the world does those good cows he claims he buys come from? If everyone is broke saving heifers, how can there be commercial cows available? Accidently bred ones in the feedlot, I guess.
In order to gain net worth and retirement income, assets must be acculimated. If it all was about cash money, and how much can I make today, assets cannot be stockpiled.

CB, did not take Economics 101. It was a general education requirement or I would not have taken it - boring as watching paint dry. Nevertheless, I wanted an A , so I read the damm book. You just stated a fundamental principle of accumulating wealth! It is not just holding currency. It is the assets you hold. You get a gold star.

Depends on the quality of the assets. I know folks worth many millions "on paper" that can hardly buy a meal at a restaurant because they have no cash or cash flow. Asset Rich......cash poor.

Richard, I hope you didn't feel sorry for them and buy their meal!!! 8)

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

CB states that retaining heifers is a crapshoot on which ones will turn out to be good cows. Can tell he has no experience doing this. One thing I can assure someone is that I can save every heifer out of 100 cows of mine, and they will all turn out to be cows. No later culling will be necessary. I just don't, after generations of retaining them, have any that won't make cows. I may have a small percentage open when bred in a 70 day period, but even that is getting smaller and smaller.
Where in the world does those good cows he claims he buys come from? If everyone is broke saving heifers, how can there be commercial cows available? Accidently bred ones in the feedlot, I guess.
In order to gain net worth and retirement income, assets must be acculimated. If it all was about cash money, and how much can I make today, assets cannot be stockpiled.

CB, did not take Economics 101. It was a general education requirement or I would not have taken it - boring as watching paint dry. Nevertheless, I wanted an A , so I read the damm book. You just stated a fundamental principle of accumulating wealth! It is not just holding currency. It is the assets you hold. You get a gold star.

Depends on the quality of the assets. I know folks worth many millions "on paper" that can hardly buy a meal at a restaurant because they have no cash or cash flow. Asset Rich......cash poor.

Time to liquidate some assets.

 

[Bright Raven]

It appears some posters in this thread are confusing (intentionally or otherwise) the differences between profit, positive cash flow and increases in net worth.

At weaning, heifers can be retained, sold as future breeders or culled.
Before breeding, heifers can be retained, sold as future breeders or culled.
After breeding, heifers van be retained, sold as bred, sold as future breeders, or culled.

I hope my net worth has increased because I have converted a significant amount of liquid assets into real assets. Based on appraisal, I feel good but only when I sell will I know.

 

[TexasBred]

CB, did not take Economics 101. It was a general education requirement or I would not have taken it - boring as watching paint dry. Nevertheless, I wanted an A , so I read the damm book. You just stated a fundamental principle of accumulating wealth! It is not just holding currency. It is the assets you hold. You get a gold star.

Depends on the quality of the assets. I know folks worth many millions "on paper" that can hardly buy a meal at a restaurant because they have no cash or cash flow. Asset Rich......cash poor.

Time to liquidate some assets.

You and I would.

 

[BrannonCarroll]

I am interested in making Super Baldies. Financial arguments aside...what would be the best combination for someone starting fresh

Pure F1 Brangus x Registered Hereford
Pure F1 Brangus x registered black Hereford
BWF Brangus x hereford
BWF Brangus x black Hereford

 

[dun]

For the most heterosis number 1

 

[ALACOWMAN]

For the most heterosis number 1

No question about that...

 

[BrannonCarroll]

Not just heterosis (and I do understand that importance) but would one produce more or less BWF "baldy" look than the other? For example, would an already BWF Brangus x black Hereford have a increase percentage of BWF?

Or would super baldy cows x super baldy bull be better?

My only concern, is not really knowing how far you have drifted from the purebred. How do you maintain the best heterosis situation while increasing your chances of getting BWF.

Thanks for any input

 

[WalnutCrest]

I believe your most consistent calves will come from reasonably tightly bred mama cows bred to reasonably tightly bred bulls.

By definition, registered cattle (due to known pedigrees (which assumes everyone was honest)) will have fewer genetic surprises than commercial cattle. So, that right there indicates that mossy registered cattle are more tightly bred than commercial cattle (although there are exceptions, like a couple of closed commercial herds I know of).

To get even more tightly bred, you'd need to find a breeder who was breeding the way you wanted to breed and buy from them.

Finding cattle close to your operation who are managed consistent to how you plan on raising them should be you're first goal. IMO.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

Not just heterosis (and I do understand that importance) but would one produce more or less BWF "baldy" look than the other? For example, would an already BWF Brangus x black Hereford have a increase percentage of BWF?

Or would super baldy cows x super baldy bull be better?

My only concern, is not really knowing how far you have drifted from the purebred. How do you maintain the best heterosis situation while increasing your chances of getting BWF.

Thanks for any input

breeding to a Hereford bull like from " Danny Millers ""aka mrvictordomino straight bred herd..will,give you a big predictable bang... Bred to a brangus..

 

[JWBrahman]

I am interested in making Super Baldies. Financial arguments aside...what would be the best combination for someone starting fresh

Pure F1 Brangus x Registered Hereford
Pure F1 Brangus x registered black Hereford
BWF Brangus x hereford
BWF Brangus x black Hereford

F1 Hybrid Braford x Angus bull