Difference between red and black angus?

[djinwa]

Was just reading the simmental thread where it was mentioned that other breeds didn't want to go black just for the color, but they also wanted the improved carcass etc of the black angus.

Which reminded me that I've wondered how much different the red angus are in carcass and other areas than the blacks.

If not much difference between reds and blacks, why not cross with reds to have less trouble with the heat in summer?

Or is the major difference just in marketing?

 

[Anonymous]

I would love a heard of red angus. Put a little ear on em and they would do really really well down here.

 

[Kathie in Thorp]

Djinwa, and me, are not in TX. (Actually, Hook, he and me are similarly situated for climate in Eastern WA, but a couple hundred miles apart.) But thanks for asking that question, 'cuz I'd like to hear responses to that question, too.

 

[ABrauny]

From what I understand there is little to no difference in carcass genetics between red and black angus. The main difference between the red angus and black angus of today is that most Red Angus breeders didn't jump on the frame 7 bandwagon and maintained a more commercial emphasis in their genetics. The general consensus is a big, fat no.

 

[Kathie in Thorp]

From what I understand there is little to no difference in carcass genetics between red and black angus. The main difference between the red angus and black angus of today is that most Red Angus breeders didn't jump on the frame 7 bandwagon and maintained a more commercial emphasis in their genetics. The general consensus is a big, fat no.

"Big fat 'no' for no difference between BA and RA basic genetics?

 

[Baldie Maker]

The difference in my opinion is docility, heat tolerance, and the focus of the associations. Ive meet several higher ups within the red angus assoc. They are focused on the commercial man and sound science.

 

[ABrauny]

From what I understand there is little to no difference in carcass genetics between red and black angus. The main difference between the red angus and black angus of today is that most Red Angus breeders didn't jump on the frame 7 bandwagon and maintained a more commercial emphasis in their genetics. The general consensus is a big, fat no.

"Big fat 'no' for no difference between BA and RA basic genetics?

I should say big fat no for difference in the carcass genetics, Red and Black Angus are identical in that regard but like Bladiemaker said Red Angus generally are more docile, and more heat tolerant because of the red skin.

 

[Kathie in Thorp]

From what I understand there is little to no difference in carcass genetics between red and black angus. The main difference between the red angus and black angus of today is that most Red Angus breeders didn't jump on the frame 7 bandwagon and maintained a more commercial emphasis in their genetics. The general consensus is a big, fat no.

"Big fat 'no' for no difference between BA and RA basic genetics?

I should say big fat no for difference in the carcass genetics, Red and Black Angus are identical in that regard but like Bladiemaker said Red Angus generally are more docile, and more heat tolerant because of the red skin.

That's kinda what I was thinking. Have family that raise BA. We bought 2 steers from them a few years ago. One was okay; the other would try to take you any chance he got -- even on a tractor. So when we finally bought some cows, I was NOT looking at BA, no matter what the family member said about how much more $$ worthy they were. And I'm not saying they are ALL that way. Besides our British Whites, we have some high percentage BA here on the place now -- young stuff -- that have been handled a lot since they were young. But I'm not gearing towards black for the future.

 

[Cross breeder #1]

i think there is less outside blood in red angus even though they have an open herd book (can be bred up to pure bred) and that they have more functional females. also they seem to be much more docile

 

[djinwa]

Yes, Kathie, we don't have nearly the heat and humidity of the midwest or south. But since cattle start experiencing early heat stress at around 70 degrees, it can still affect ours when it gets into the 90's. Fortunately we also lack humidity. I suggested red angus for my sister even up in Alberta. Why not, as it can get pretty warm there. Interesting that Canada has both reds and blacks in their angus registry. I believe I've heard the AAA picked blacks only because angus was the only common breed with blacks, and black is a dominant trait, so they could easily tell cattle that have angus in them?

My daughter's ex-boyfriend at a nearby military base was from Oklahoma. He mentioned the big heat his folks were having last summer, so I started watching their temps and saw many days of 108 degrees. Wondered how cattle could survive such, especially with the humidity. Then inbredredneck mentioned how he lost many in a feedlot from heat, and lost a much higher percentage of blacks, which is what I've read elsewhere.

If there isn't much difference in carcass, you'd think the reds would have an advantage in most of the country. Sounds like just a matter of marketing. You could market the increased heat tolerance, which affects profits also, as this article points out.
http://www.cattletoday.com/archive/2007 ... 1033.shtml

 

[cow pollinater]

I've been around lots of both colors and some of the worst temperment wise were the reds. They are bred to be commercial cattle while alot of the blacks are geared towards big money cattlemen that don't want real cattle and select based on what they can handle.. Notice that the blacks are the breed that scores temperment. :2cents:
I bred a registered red cow for a guy that had to be team roped and layed down in the pasture because they couldn't get her in with horses and dogs. The whole herd was hot but she was just BAD. I've seen blacks that were bad as well but I'm pointing out that reds having a better temperment is a farce. Overall they're really similar cattle.
If you look at across breed epds, they are similar enough that picking out a good bull from either breed is a wash one way or the other.

 

[TexasBred]

Yes, Kathie, we don't have nearly the heat and humidity of the midwest or south. But since cattle start experiencing early heat stress at around 70 degrees, it can still affect ours when it gets into the 90's. Fortunately we also lack humidity. I suggested red angus for my sister even up in Alberta. Why not, as it can get pretty warm there. Interesting that Canada has both reds and blacks in their angus registry. I believe I've heard the AAA picked blacks only because angus was the only common breed with blacks, and black is a dominant trait, so they could easily tell cattle that have angus in them?

My daughter's ex-boyfriend at a nearby military base was from Oklahoma. He mentioned the big heat his folks were having last summer, so I started watching their temps and saw many days of 108 degrees. Wondered how cattle could survive such, especially with the humidity. Then inbredredneck mentioned how he lost many in a feedlot from heat, and lost a much higher percentage of blacks, which is what I've read elsewhere.

Don't forget that there is such a thing as heat acclimation. Cattle like people learn to live with it in the South/Southwest. Black do better than you'd ever believe to. It's not comfortable by any means but you do learn to function quite well in the heat. If you're in the NW your cattle simply never have a chance to become acclimated to heat to any degree and really suffer when you do get the occasional hot day.


If there isn't much difference in carcass, you'd think the reds would have an advantage in most of the country. Sounds like just a matter of marketing. You could market the increased heat tolerance, which affects profits also, as this article points out.
http://www.cattletoday.com/archive/2007 ... 1033.shtml

 

[Taurus]

I've been around lots of both colors and some of the worst temperment wise were the reds. They are bred to be commercial cattle while alot of the blacks are geared towards big money cattlemen that don't want real cattle and select based on what they can handle.. Notice that the blacks are the breed that scores temperment. :2cents:
I bred a registered red cow for a guy that had to be team roped and layed down in the pasture because they couldn't get her in with horses and dogs. The whole herd was hot but she was just BAD. I've seen blacks that were bad as well but I'm pointing out that reds having a better temperment is a farce. Overall they're really similar cattle.
If you look at across breed epds, they are similar enough that picking out a good bull from either breed is a wash one way or the other.

The most dangerous cow I ever dealt was a red angus heifer....HEIFER. Tried go after everybody in the same corral and even BREAK IN in the barn to just want to kill us. Even the dogs didn't faze her and she kicks like a bucking horse. Put few dents on the trailer and the trucks when we tried to haul her off to the slaughter. Even flipped up a four wheeler. We have to replace few walls and boards in the barn and also sliding doors too. All we wanted her to goes in the chute so we can tag her ear....

 

[Stocker Steve]

The most dangerous cow I ever dealt was a red angus heifer....HEIFER. Tried go after everybody in the same corral and even BREAK IN in the barn to just want to kill us. Even the dogs didn't faze her and she kicks like a bucking horse. Put few dents on the trailer and the trucks when we tried to haul her off to the slaughter. Even flipped up a four wheeler. We have to replace few walls and boards in the barn and also sliding doors too. All we wanted her to goes in the chute so we can tag her ear....

There is hard cull'in, and then there is gun cull'in. :nod: Sometimes you are way ahead to just shoot.

 

[Stocker Steve]

About $100 per cow here. :cboy:

 

[Deepsouth]

If you went with red Angus cows and put a black bull on them how would that work out with the calves? Seems you could have the positive of the red cows and the positive of black calves.
I am actually considering doing this.

 

[ken]

I think the situation with Canadian Angus is a bit different than the American. Because of the narrower gene pool in red Angus here, I would say that black has more potential for quality, both in terms of carcass and behaviour. Since they are in the same registry, breeding black and red together occurs fairly frequently, often to add the quality of certain black bulls to a red herd, by breeding the genetics in and then selecting red offspring.

Everyone says black baldy cows are better, but when it comes to buying, the majority still want red cows, because they breed Charolais terminal, and the feedlots traditionally don't pay top dollar for grey calves. That's starting to change though, with good silvers getting higher prices than yellows in the 2011 fall run.

 

[redcowsrule33]

Notice that the blacks are the breed that scores temperment.

Here's my :2cents: . The other two mainstream breeds that scores temperament is limousin and simmental. Both breeds are working hard at resolving the perceived temperament issues with their breed. Yet Jerseys, a breed known for their calving ease, don't have a calving ease "EPD". Hmmm....

I have met quiet and crazy in all breeds. But I will allow some breeds are hotter that others on the average. I'm disappointed that some have had a bad experience with the RA breed where mine has been the opposite. But the herds I have dealt with would put crazy on the bus. Selection, selection, selection.

 

[dun]

Notice that the blacks are the breed that scores temperment.

Here's my :2cents: . The other two mainstream breeds that scores temperament is limousin and simmental. Both breeds are working hard at resolving the perceived temperament issues with their breed. Yet Jerseys, a breed known for their calving ease, don't have a calving ease "EPD". Hmmm....

I have met quiet and crazy in all breeds. But I will allow some breeds are hotter that others on the average. I'm disappointed that some have had a bad experience with the RA breed where mine has been the opposite. But the herds I have dealt with would put crazy on the bus. Selection, selection, selection.

When we first started with Red Angus most of our cows came from one herd. All of them were somewaht dingy except one that was the calmest easiest going cow on the place. Her daughters and grandaughters are the same way. They're almost as hard to work as Herefords cause they have no flight zone. But the totally nutsiest cow I ever dealt with was a yearling Hereford heifer, she wasn;t wild she was always on the attack including through the fence or the barn wall if she heard you walking past outside.

 

[Stocker Steve]

In my put together herd the reds out preform the blacks. I had a max price I would pay per cow and I usually got better reds than blacks for the money. Lots of black junk in this area - - while the reds are more consistent and may still sell for less.

Best value I ever bought was horned herf cows.Not many bidders for that kind and they always come up with a calf. :nod: I am thinking about adding some cows and rwf are at the top of my shopping list.

So the difference is wether you want rwf or bwf calves !