cows

[Massey135]

Silly old man. Brangus are homozygous black and polled as well. All the calves out if a red horned shorthorn bull bred to black brangus cows will black and polled.

Your comments are trash - go elsewhere if you don't wish to add or discuss the topics at hand. From what youre saying 2/3 of cattleman need to do a little more reading. Evolve.


They may be Luccheses, but they're boots nonetheless :cowboy:

 

[TexasBred]

Silly old man. Brangus are homozygous black and polled as well. All the calves out if a red horned shorthorn bull bred to black brangus cows will black and polled.

Your comments are trash - go elsewhere if you don't wish to add or discuss the topics at hand. From what youre saying 2/3 of cattleman need to do a little more reading. Evolve.


They may be Luccheses, but they're boots nonetheless :cowboy:

I know that....but most cattle owners don't. My comments were dead on. From what I'm seeing two thirds of the cattlemen don't give a dam. Most own dehorners. But most have never met a shorthorn but you'll always be able to swap with other breeders....if your's are any good. ;-)

 

[Isomade]

Silly old man. Brangus are homozygous black and polled as well. All the calves out if a red horned shorthorn bull bred to black brangus cows will black and polled.

Your comments are trash - go elsewhere if you don't wish to add or discuss the topics at hand. From what youre saying 2/3 of cattleman need to do a little more reading. Evolve.


They may be Luccheses, but they're boots nonetheless :cowboy:

MF if you were a reputable breeder of brangus replacements I would have already met you in person and I know several others in the same boat. You made a statement a while back that I agree with 100%, that if you look around most seed stock producers around here use brangus females as carriers regardless of breed for a reason. I think that's TBs point. If I could find quality replacements as close to me as you are it would solve a lot of problems, but the problem is I can't, and I don't want SH, nor do the other commercial producers around me.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

Silly old man. Brangus are homozygous black and polled as well. All the calves out if a red horned shorthorn bull bred to black brangus cows will black and polled.

Your comments are trash - go elsewhere if you don't wish to add or discuss the topics at hand. From what youre saying 2/3 of cattleman need to do a little more reading. Evolve.


They may be Luccheses, but they're boots nonetheless :cowboy:

i expected no less.. typical of your thinking...are they like these :cowboy:
http://pbr2010.files.wordpress.com/2011 ... lle-31.jpg

 

[Massey135]

Silly old man. Brangus are homozygous black and polled as well. All the calves out if a red horned shorthorn bull bred to black brangus cows will black and polled.

Your comments are trash - go elsewhere if you don't wish to add or discuss the topics at hand. From what youre saying 2/3 of cattleman need to do a little more reading. Evolve.


They may be Luccheses, but they're boots nonetheless :cowboy:

MF if you were a reputable breeder of brangus replacements I would have already met you in person and I know several others in the same boat. You made a statement a while back that I agree with 100%, that if you look around most seed stock producers around here use brangus females as carriers regardless of breed for a reason. I think that's TBs point. If I could find quality replacements as close to me as you are it would solve a lot of problems, but the problem is I can't, and I don't want SH, nor do the other commercial producers around me.

As commercial producers become more educated (in general, but especially) to the facts of heterosis, you're going to see an every increasing demand for a solid black 100% British f1 female. There are only 2 breeds that can accompany the black Angus in doing this: red Angus and shorthorn. Undoubtedly, more heterosis is achieved with the shorthorn x black Angus cross than w/ the black Angus x red Angus.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

that dont make any sense..... most commercial cattlemen are well aware of the benefits of crossbreeding.. and if im going with another british breed on angus red or black it will be Hereford.. you won't do any better

 

[cow pollinater]

Correct my thinking if its wrong, but the overwhelming majority of commercial cowherds are homozygous polled..and homozygous black at that. My thinking is that these people should be indifferent about using a horned bull just as they should be indifferent about using a red bull. The resulting offspring should be black and polled regardless..no?

Your thinking is wrong. Most commercial herds have at some point used the other english breed, horned hereford, because it keeps enough heterosis(and most of them don't know what that means but they do know it when they see it)in the cows that they get the most out of having mostly black cows without losing consistancy in the cowherd. And you have to watch brangus genetics pretty close... some of them aren't to far away from the parent breeds and some of the brahman side was horned.
Your thinking is short sighted. You're only thinking about the results of the first cross. You are correct to think that a purebred angus bred to a horned bull should give a polled calf and a black one at that(or blue roan...which you will give away on sale day).... NOW what? You got one cross out of it and got a black heifer but she has nowhere to go but back to a black bull. Her daughter stands a good chance of throwing both red and horned cattle if she's bred to anything red or horned and now the producer has a mixed herd. My registered angus cows give me baldies when they're bred to the horned herfords but my comercial give about twenty five percent reds and or horns.
I'm glad you like your shorthorns because I think you're going to get to keep alot of them.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

http://www.j-franch.com/Photos/Cattle/b ... oramic.jpg to heck with shorthorns,,, come to papa, :cowboy:

 

[Isomade]

I think your biggest and most obvious problem is there just aren't many SH cattle in this part of the country compared to Angus, Hereford, or Brangus. I have never owned a SH cow but I sure like the looks of the few good ones I have seen. However that doesn't help me when I need to find good quality replacements if I'm using SH in this part of the country. It is already difficult to find a quality Angus or Brangus replacements. You may have the best SH in the world but if your customer base is small who cares? One thing I have noticed for our general area is we are overrun with Angus seed stock producers, and there are a few Hereford. Do you know of one really good Brangus breeder within 2 hours from here? Since Tinker Ray went out of business I don't know of one.

 

[Farmer Ben]

nice cattle there :nod:

 

[Massey135]

Cp, The second cross, producing the 3way calf, should be a terminal cross. These are the only results that should matter. It's been years since I've seen a hereford bull anywhere around here. You could drive around here all day and never see a whiteface cow. Brangus and now straight Angus dominate the pastures.
Blue roan heifers will top the sale all over the country.

ISO, you're seriously underestimating the demand for shorthorn bulls. I sold 10 weaned bull calves for $12-1500 last fall on THE LIVESTOCK WEEKLY online classified in less than 3 weeks. If I would have had 30 I would have sold em.

 

[cow pollinater]

Cp, The second cross, producing the 3way calf, should be a terminal cross.

Maybe in your perfect little world that you've figured out for yourself but in reality most ranches tend towards keeping breeds that they can keep the best heifers out of. Terminal is saved for older proven cows from outdated genetics that are on the way out.

These are the only results that should matter.

Pure ignorance. What is the terminal breed going to be? It has to be black something or yourcustomer is on the losing end.

It's been years since I've seen a hereford bull anywhere around here. You could drive around here all day and never see a whiteface cow. Brangus and now straight Angus dominate the pastures.

The influence is there. They don't have to have a white face to carry the genetics.

Blue roan heifers will top the sale all over the country.

:lol: Send a load to me. I'll show you what they're worth. I admit they are worth more than the steers but they ain't worth much.

ISO, you're seriously underestimating the demand for shorthorn bulls. I sold 10 weaned bull calves for $12-1500 last fall on THE LIVESTOCK WEEKLY online classified in less than 3 weeks. If I would have had 30 I would have sold em

.
I'm not Iso, but I did sell four angus CULLS uncut by the pound for about what you got and they were bred for efficiancy so I doubt they weighed as much as your culls did.

 

[TexasBred]

[/quote] i expected no less.. typical of your thinking...are they like these :cowboy:
http://pbr2010.files.wordpress.com/2011 ... lle-31.jpg[/quote]


Dam Bammy....you actually found the kid....but he's not wearing his Sunday "Taco" hat.

 

[Massey135]

Cp, youre full of it. F1 cattle, brafords particularly are not in huge demand bc of their ability to produce replacements. People seek f1s to cover with carcass bulls that lb the scales. Considerably more terminal operations out there. Char bulls everywhere you look around here and not a smoke cow in sight.

The terminal breed is charolais. You know those big white curly headed guys..? Smokes and buckskins are the bellringers in these parts.

And to assume there's hereford influence in the majority of commercial cows is just silly. Maybe 40 yrs ago, but surely you don't think those genetics are still in play??

Do your own search for blue roan replacement heifers - you'll see what the free mkt dictates they're worth.

And your last comments are just dam lies. You've never sold cull 6-700lb calves for over $2/lb.

TB, if that kids got a cpl hundred grand worth of of cows, I'd sure like to meet him too. He must be doin somethin right.

 

[cow pollinater]

F1 cattle, brafords particularly are not in huge demand bc of their ability to produce replacements. People seek f1s to cover with carcass bulls that lb the scales. Considerably more terminal operations out there. Char bulls everywhere you look around here and not a smoke cow in sight.

Yep. My contention is that shorthorns are going to make a bunch of off colored cattle that nobody wants. They don't fit in as an angus replacement and they don't fit in as a terminal.

The terminal breed is charolais. You know those big white curly headed guys..? Smokes and buckskins are the bellringers in these parts.

Yep, I know what chars are... I have a few myself. Even some that I register.

And to assume there's hereford influence in the majority of commercial cows is just silly. Maybe 40 yrs ago, but surely you don't think those genetics are still in play??

You WILL be surprised if you ever get a clue.

Do your own search for blue roan replacement heifers - you'll see what the free mkt dictates they're worth.

I disagree on that one. I think the market doesn't give them anywhere near what they are worth but it won't give them much.

And your last comments are just dam lies. You've never sold cull 6-700lb calves for over $2/lb.

I didn't sell 6-700 pound calves. I sold bulls that didn't cut it for me. There's a BIG differance there. If you can't match with a shorthorn you are doing something wrong.

 

[cow pollinater]

Correct my thinking if its wrong, but the overwhelming majority of commercial cowherds are homozygous polled..and homozygous black at that. My thinking is that these people should be indifferent about using a horned bull just as they should be indifferent about using a red bull. The resulting offspring should be black and polled regardless..no?

Now hang on here. Weren't you the one that was trying to tell me that char was the way to go as a terminal over sh/an cows a few minutes ago? If you understand that the best market is for black influenced calves then I'd assume that you can understand why a char over a shorthorn/angus is a bad idea.
I'm back to thinking that you don't know what you want.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

Best market isn't always for the black influenced calves. Char bull on a red cow or red bull on a char cow, gets a yellow colored calf that sells at the top of the market around here.

 

[Taurus]

Best market isn't always for the black influenced calves. Char bull on a red cow or red bull on a char cow, gets a yellow colored calf that sells at the top of the market around here.

Depends on the areas but the black influenced calves remained mighty popular in most areas.

 

[Massey135]

Correct my thinking if its wrong, but the overwhelming majority of commercial cowherds are homozygous polled..and homozygous black at that. My thinking is that these people should be indifferent about using a horned bull just as they should be indifferent about using a red bull. The resulting offspring should be black and polled regardless..no?

Now hang on here. Weren't you the one that was trying to tell me that char was the way to go as a terminal over sh/an cows a few minutes ago? If you understand that the best market is for black influenced calves then I'd assume that you can understand why a char over a shorthorn/angus is a bad idea.
I'm back to thinking that you don't know what you want.

I've said the same all along. The best mkt for replacements is for black heifers. F1 shorthorn x Angus are black; a 100% British, solid black f1 (use a linebred red shorthorn bull if your concerned bout the blues)
The best mkt for terminal calves is for smokes and buckskins(around here) Those F1s covered w/ a char will produce a smoke or buckskin evertime- The buckskin coming out bc charolais are really red colored (but diluted).

 

[chippie]

... I sold 10 weaned bull calves for $12-1500 last fall on THE LIVESTOCK WEEKLY online classified in less than 3 weeks. If I would have had 30 I would have sold em.

Were they purchased as herd bull prospects or show steer prospects? Many people like Shorthorns for market steer projects. Your price sounds like what a friend pays for a calf for his daughter to show.