cows

[ALACOWMAN]

like to see em 10-15 years down the road,,providing you have'nt changed breeds again... money can buy good cattle. ive seen it on here time and again..... man goes out buys another man genetics, show some pics... and the oooooo and awwwwwin' over em,, begins....

 

[SSGenetics]

Nice cattle Massey! Like the replacements and really like the 3/4 sisters...

I do agree about the bull selection on those type cows, but it looks like you are heading in the right direction with the Buster bull... :nod:

Do you prefer the reds or the roans?

 

[Massey135]

like to see em 10-15 years down the road,,providing you have'nt changed breeds again... money can buy good cattle. ive seen it on here time and again..... man goes out buys another man genetics, show some pics... and the oooooo and awwwwwin' over em,, begins....

Besides a handful of registered beefmasters I had 10 years ago, the shorthorns are the first registered cows I've owned. Where you get 'changing breeds again' I don't know. I experimented with many different breeds of bulls over grade Angus/brangus type cattle but nvr in a position to change cow breeds. Notice how you didn't comment on my selection and its roll in establishing a herd whether purchased or developed. Though I hope to accomplish it one day, there are very very few closed herds out there that operate solely with their own genetics. That's a lifetime accomplishment. You have to start somewhere and I feel like I've done a damn good job at establishing a foundation.

 

[Massey135]

Nice cattle Massey! Like the replacements and really like the 3/4 sisters...

I do agree about the bull selection on those type cows, but it looks like you are heading in the right direction with the Buster bull... :nod:

Do you prefer the reds or the roans?

I prefer the deep reds and the dark even roans. I'm not too fond of the red neck roans like the pair I posted. I might even put that white bull over the black commercials to get some blues. I really like them.

 

[goddy]

His sire, Muridale Buster 14k:

heck of a bull regardless of breed!

 

[Commercialfarmer]

Why the horned bulls?

 

[kenny thomas]

You convinced me how good they are. I went out and bought 3 registered shorthorns Monday. They are good but way to darn big.

 

[Massey135]

I don't necessarily have a preference for horned bulls but I would never select an inferior animal solely because they were polled. I see it so often someone overlooking a superior animal just because it has horns. Seems like the worst type of single trait selection.

Good for you, KT. Their maternal quality is second to none. What's the pedigrees on the cows you bought? Just as in any breed, shorthorns come in all sizes.

 

[kenny thomas]

I don't necessarily have a preference for horned bulls but I would never select an inferior animal solely because they were polled. I see it so often someone overlooking a superior animal just because it has horns. Seems like the worst type of single trait selection.

Good for you, KT. Their maternal quality is second to none. What's the pedigrees on the cows you bought? Just as in any breed, shorthorns come in all sizes.

Massey, they sent the papers off so I didnt even look at them. I bought them at slaughter price and they still averaged $1100.

 

[Commercialfarmer]

Seems like the worst type of single trait selection.

They are your cattle, but I don't know that I can completely agree with the above statement.
Horns cost the beef industry quite a bit of money each year. You can breed it back out of them, but it seems like extra work for someone especially if your heifers are already homozygous polled. If your producing heterozygous or horned breeding animals, a producer with a mixed herd that ends up with a lot of calves to dock may have a different opinion. Unnecessary expense and stress.

Feeders/Packers lose a ton of money shipping fed cattle with tiped horns. Bruised meat isn't worth much.


I do like those heifers. What program are they from? How much does your Bonanza bull weigh? What is the dam's breeding?

 

[Massey135]

Seems like the worst type of single trait selection.

They are your cattle, but I don't know that I can completely agree with the above statement.
Horns cost the beef industry quite a bit of money each year. You can breed it back out of them, but it seems like extra work for someone especially if your heifers are already homozygous polled. If your producing heterozygous or horned breeding animals, a producer with a mixed herd that ends up with a lot of calves to dock may have a different opinion. Unnecessary expense and stress.

Feeders/Packers lose a ton of money shipping fed cattle with tiped horns. Bruised meat isn't worth much.


I do like those heifers. What program are they from? How much does your Bonanza bull weigh? What is the dam's breeding?

For starters, there are very very few homozygous polled shorthorn bulls. That being said, using a horned bull is not that big of a deal to me. I take the Barnes dehorners to my calves when theyre born if the buds are already present or at weaning when they're not. In my experience with shorthorns, even at 6-7 mnths the horns are still unattached. It's too easy to dehorn or even put a docking ring on that loose horn. I just would never select an inferior bull solely bc they were polled. Fact is, you can buy a considerably better horned bull for the money than you can a polled bull. Imo, that solid red Dover son is exceptional and there is no way the breeder would have let him go if he were polled. I feel like I got one of the best shorthorn bulls out there and at a discounted price at that. All else equal, I'd pick a polled bull but I've yet to see all else equal. Horned bulls that make the sales are always the better bulls in the sale. not because theyre intrinsically better, but because they were offered despite being horned.

Those heifers are a combination of (Jungles/Rocker Bros/ Keith Lauer) and Lovings breeding. The bonanza son is smaller than I'd like but he is a pretty capacious bull in his own right. He's a FS 5 and weighs ~1600 at 3yrs old. He is out of a Dover Ranch female.

 

[Commercialfarmer]

Seems like the worst type of single trait selection.

They are your cattle, but I don't know that I can completely agree with the above statement.
Horns cost the beef industry quite a bit of money each year. You can breed it back out of them, but it seems like extra work for someone especially if your heifers are already homozygous polled. If your producing heterozygous or horned breeding animals, a producer with a mixed herd that ends up with a lot of calves to dock may have a different opinion. Unnecessary expense and stress.

Feeders/Packers lose a ton of money shipping fed cattle with tiped horns. Bruised meat isn't worth much.


I do like those heifers. What program are they from? How much does your Bonanza bull weigh? What is the dam's breeding?

For starters, there are very very few homozygous polled shorthorn bulls. That being said, using a horned bull is not that big of a deal to me. I take the Barnes dehorners to my calves when theyre born if the buds are already present or at weaning when they're not. In my experience with shorthorns, even at 6-7 mnths the horns are still unattached. It's too easy to dehorn or even put a docking ring on that loose horn. I just would never select an inferior bull solely bc they were polled. Fact is, you can buy a considerably better horned bull for the money than you can a polled bull. Imo, that solid red Dover son is exceptional and there is no way the breeder would have let him go if he were polled. I feel like I got one of the best shorthorn bulls out there and at a discounted price at that. All else equal, I'd pick a polled bull but I've yet to see all else equal. Horned bulls that make the sales are always the better bulls in the sale. not because theyre intrinsically better, but because they were offered despite being horned.

Those heifers are a combination of (Jungles/Rocker Bros/ Keith Lauer) and Lovings breeding. The bonanza son is smaller than I'd like but he is a pretty capacious bull in his own right. He's a FS 5 and weighs ~1600 at 3yrs old. He is out of a Dover Ranch female.

That is kinda my point. If I was looking to produce seed stock, I would look at it from a seller's standpoint. I'd rather have a hand full of quality expensive polled cattle in the sale vs a handful of discounts because they are horned.

AI is a wonderful tool. And breading heterozygous x heterozygous, 1/4 of all offspring will be homozygous.

There may be a reason in the pricing, when you have several hundred head as most producers around here have, one more chore to screw with in February isn't necessarily appealing.

Good luck with your adventure.

 

[Massey135]

Fortunately for me, I'm in a position to look at it from MY standpoint and what I like- s conformist wouldn't have shorthorns to begin with. From the 2 bull calves I've sold, I just pitched the fact that it didn't matter if they were horned or polled as both customers planned on using them over homozygous polled grade Angus cattle.


Of all the shorthorn AI sires out there, I'm only familiar with a few that have been verified homozygous polled. A homoxygous bull I plan to AI some to in the future is Crooked Post Grissom.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

Fortunately for me, I'm in a position to look at it from MY standpoint and what I like- s conformist wouldn't have shorthorns to begin with. From the 2 bull calves I've sold, I just pitched the fact that it didn't matter if they were horned or polled as both customers planned on using them over homozygous polled grade Angus cattle.


Of all the shorthorn AI sires out there, I'm only familiar with a few that have been verified homozygous polled. A homoxygous bull I plan to AI some to in the future is Crooked Post Grissom.

it's good you can afford to do that,, means you gonna have to do some heavy, creative marketing in the future.... but dont expect much business, from real, cattle producers

 

[Dave]

Fortunately for me, I'm in a position to look at it from MY standpoint and what I like- s conformist wouldn't have shorthorns to begin with. From the 2 bull calves I've sold, I just pitched the fact that it didn't matter if they were horned or polled as both customers planned on using them over homozygous polled grade Angus cattle.


Of all the shorthorn AI sires out there, I'm only familiar with a few that have been verified homozygous polled. A homoxygous bull I plan to AI some to in the future is Crooked Post Grissom.

it's good you can afford to do that,, means you gonna have to do some heavy, creative marketing in the future.... but dont expect much business, from real, cattle producers

I have to agree with AC. I come looking to buy a bull and see that you use a horned bull... I will walk away. There are lots of good bulls out there who don't add horns into the mix. And that is nothing personal. And I do like your cattle and I do like shorthorns. I have burnt off lots of horns in the past and would like to avoid it in the future as much as possible.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

im all for people to raise what they like to look at, ive done it to """and done with it""" just don't expect everyone to be a hog about em

 

[Massey135]

Correct my thinking if its wrong, but the overwhelming majority of commercial cowherds are homozygous polled..and homozygous black at that. My thinking is that these people should be indifferent about using a horned bull just as they should be indifferent about using a red bull. The resulting offspring should be black and polled regardless..no?

 

[ALACOWMAN]

Correct my thinking if its wrong, but the overwhelming majority of commercial cowherds are homozygous polled..and homozygous black at that. My thinking is that these people should be indifferent about using a horned bull just as they should be indifferent about using a red bull. The resulting offspring should be black and polled regardless..no?

no what?? the way i see it... you might pick up some commercial business.. but most of your customer base, will be hobbist... and you need to get your finger on the pulse, of what they want

 

[TexasBred]

Correct my thinking if its wrong, but the overwhelming majority of commercial cowherds are homozygous polled..and homozygous black at that. My thinking is that these people should be indifferent about using a horned bull just as they should be indifferent about using a red bull. The resulting offspring should be black and polled regardless..no?

Do you spend all your time with your face in a book reading?? Get out and look at some cattle herds... go to a salebarn and watch a typical sale. Dam boy open your eyes and see what you're missing. Two thirds of the folks that own cattle have never heard the word "homozygous" let alone know what the he77 it means. Most have never even seen a shorthorn bull or cow either. Go back to Brangus. :cowboy:

 

[ALACOWMAN]

maybe slip those penny loafers off, and put on a pair of boots,, and go hang out with folks like this for a spell http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDZW3EVO ... ure=relmfu