The land is an investment just like my 401k however, unlike my 401k I get to enjoy the land. The cattle are also an investment. The cattle pay me fair market lease value and pay their own way. I keep anything that's left. I generally squeeze $400-500 a head out of them. Since I value the ranch and cattle more than money (like most ranchers I know) I pretty well spend that money on things for the ranch. I've used it for the 20% down on more land, tractors, equipment, more cows, fencing, the list goes on and on. The thing people need to realize is that land and cattle payments aren't like pick up and bass boat payments. If you've got 75k worth of land and cattle payments due on March 6 th and you make them, well that money is still yours. It's in a different form but it's still yours and you can get it back anytime. Again anyone that thinks they can buy all this stuff soley on money cattle make isn't living in the real world. It takes planning and multiple income streams. It's not easy but it is possible.
Cattle people/ farmers are getting old.
- Thread starter kickinbull
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For the last 5-6 yrs the cattle have proffited $400-500 a head. That's after feed, pasture spraying, Vaccinations, and lease payments. The land is a investment I chose to make. Running cattle is fairly simple and doesn't take much time once you get setup right. I don't know what I'd do all day if all I had to do was run the ranch.
Dave
Well-known member
I bought this place 4 years ago. The price works out to $705 an acre. That is the deeded acres with house, garage, shop, barn, and corrals. If you tossed in the acres of BLM grazing rights the price per acre gets real cheap. But it is only 50 miles to WalMart where I never go. There is some big country around here but I don't think you can get 200 miles from the nearest WalMart.
People here look at it not in price per acre but in dollars of cost per cow. I see a lot advertised that work out to $10,000 per cow. Those are people hoping someone with too much money comes along. But I do see places available at $6,000 per cow. That pencils out if you own the cows.
My closest neighbor bought his place using an FSA loan. The process was so long that his parents had to buy the place to keep him from losing out on it and then sold it to him at the original price once the FSA money finally came through. A lot of sellers wont wait through this long drawn out process.
I agree. If you never got all your principle back that you spent on land from cattle profits land would still be a good investment. If you didn't have cows it would be hard to justify the maintenance on the land unless it was all wooded.
smartin0022
Well-known member
I understand that. My closing took 3 months it was difficult for us the buyer and the seller but I told them the process beforehand and they played ball. Isn't gonna work for everyone but it might work for some.
My brother in law is in the construction business. For years he worked for a company that paid him milage to use his own truck for work. At this time he was averaging 4,000 - 5,000 miles a month plus 2,000 personal miles. I believe he was getting 40 cents a mile from the company. He was always complaining about the job miles causing him to be upside down when he went to trade and he couldn't get a truck paid for before it was wore out. I finally ask him what he was doing with the $1,800 a month the job gave him for miles and how he could be upside down if he got the $1,800. Of course he didn't want to discuss it anymore. I say all of that to say most people I know have the same problem with their ranching operation.
WalkerRanch 3-2
Active member
Land itself makes money. It is the investment based on how you choose to work it.
I am not willing to eat plant-based meat substitute products so raising a small herd 30-40 allows me to raise some hamburger and steaks
. I live on property that my parents placed in a trust. It is a pine plantation but we have pastures that dad used for hay meadows before he sold cattle out and planted pines. These pastures require work or they become brush. The small herd keep some pastures clean, some I hay and it is full time work repairing fence to keep neighboring animals and hogs out.
My folks bought the property like many others have done. We lived lean and folks both worked outside the home to afford land payments, raising cattle, selling timber and leasing minerals. It was a family investment and we worked it, and try to keep money making options diverse. Fencing up and down a rocky mountain off a survey line that dad and I ran was rough work. My oldest son is a directional driller in the oil industry. He is buying a saw-mill (which we have been waiting almost a year to get) so that we can make more money from our pine harvests. The trust will allow future generations choices so my thought is look ahead to what can you acquire to make family prosperous.
I am not willing to eat plant-based meat substitute products so raising a small herd 30-40 allows me to raise some hamburger and steaks
. I live on property that my parents placed in a trust. It is a pine plantation but we have pastures that dad used for hay meadows before he sold cattle out and planted pines. These pastures require work or they become brush. The small herd keep some pastures clean, some I hay and it is full time work repairing fence to keep neighboring animals and hogs out.My folks bought the property like many others have done. We lived lean and folks both worked outside the home to afford land payments, raising cattle, selling timber and leasing minerals. It was a family investment and we worked it, and try to keep money making options diverse. Fencing up and down a rocky mountain off a survey line that dad and I ran was rough work. My oldest son is a directional driller in the oil industry. He is buying a saw-mill (which we have been waiting almost a year to get) so that we can make more money from our pine harvests. The trust will allow future generations choices so my thought is look ahead to what can you acquire to make family prosperous.
Otha
Well-known member
I don't aim to complain but to share the experience I had with the FSA beginning farmer loan. I was trying to buy a piece of ground from family. They had it priced about right and the total fell within the FSA limits. So I headed down to their office to ask a few questions. Turns out they didn't know I existed or anything about my 3 years of running cattle or 6 years of growing hay. I had never signed up for any of their welfare programs for drought relief or peanut and wheat base acres. So even though the program is supposedly intended for beginning farmers you must have 3 years of some kind of production on their records. Now yes I am aware you can tell them what ground you are leasing and do that paper work without receiving the government handouts. Why would I have taken time to do that before I knew they required it for the loan? Maybe it was just my local office but they weren't very helpful in this situation. They didn't want to talk much about the loan but had lots of question to ask about the land I had been renting. They wanted to get me signed up for all of their programs.
smartin0022
Well-known member
I hear you they do pry alot I forgot about the 3 years experience. I had grown up farming had my 3 years (2 managing cattle Cow calf operation and 1 at a smaller thoroughbred farm. So I guess my situation just lined up better at the time.
Otha
Well-known member
I do understand the 3 years experience requirement. I was just irritated that sale barn check stubs and other records like that wouldn't prove the 3 years experience to them, had to be signed up with them for the last 3 years. Glad it worked out for you. It's definitely a good program for those that meet the requirements.
I was thinking about this post while I was fixing fence today.....sorry the post turned out looong...
I think getting into the cattle business is just like anything else in life. Last Friday I got through with a 30 day stretch of 12hr shifts at work. I got up at 4:45 everyday and left the house at 5:30 to have a quick talk with the girls at our business then got to work by 6:40 am. We get off at 7pm so I head home and feed the bulls, cows, horses, and yearlings then get home around 8:30 pm (if there's no problems). Friday I started a 3 week vacation. Everday since has been spent working at the ranch and getting caught up on things. I never complain about any of this and definitely don't think I'm doing anything out of the ordinary. Last Saturday a friend stopped by and asked if we'd go riding side x sides with them. I never stopped what I was doing and just told him I didn't have time. I got the same blah blah blah work all the time and never have fun. I didn't say anything but I was actually enjoying what I was doing. The very next day I saw the same guy and got the I don't know how you keep all this together and how it must be nice. Then came the talk about how hard it is to find a good paying job. All this coming from a guy that spends $50 a day on beer and cigarettes and might work 40hrs a week if he's forced too. This guy is no different than the majority of people I know. They'll talk about wanting stuff and how nice it must be but, at the end of the day you couldn't poor this life on them.
Making good money and having nice things isn't hard but it does require sacrifices. We don't take vacations, I miss all the grandkids games and birthdays. I've ask them many times if they'd like us to sell the ranch and move closer and everytime they say no. Id guess in the last 25 years I've been off Thanksgiving and Christmas maybe 6-8 times. Holidays and weekends are just another day to us. It's all in what you want out of life. It's funny how the people that "have" put in the time and rarely complain but the "have nots" don't wanna put in the time but complain about the "haves" and expect them to pay more taxes etc.
At the end of the day the world needs both groups and I don't look down on anyone for their choices. Most days I think why am I doing all this? Maybe I'll sell out quit the job and start smoking crack. Lol It's all out there and the worlds full of opportunities, you just have to want it bad enough.
I think getting into the cattle business is just like anything else in life. Last Friday I got through with a 30 day stretch of 12hr shifts at work. I got up at 4:45 everyday and left the house at 5:30 to have a quick talk with the girls at our business then got to work by 6:40 am. We get off at 7pm so I head home and feed the bulls, cows, horses, and yearlings then get home around 8:30 pm (if there's no problems). Friday I started a 3 week vacation. Everday since has been spent working at the ranch and getting caught up on things. I never complain about any of this and definitely don't think I'm doing anything out of the ordinary. Last Saturday a friend stopped by and asked if we'd go riding side x sides with them. I never stopped what I was doing and just told him I didn't have time. I got the same blah blah blah work all the time and never have fun. I didn't say anything but I was actually enjoying what I was doing. The very next day I saw the same guy and got the I don't know how you keep all this together and how it must be nice. Then came the talk about how hard it is to find a good paying job. All this coming from a guy that spends $50 a day on beer and cigarettes and might work 40hrs a week if he's forced too. This guy is no different than the majority of people I know. They'll talk about wanting stuff and how nice it must be but, at the end of the day you couldn't poor this life on them.
Making good money and having nice things isn't hard but it does require sacrifices. We don't take vacations, I miss all the grandkids games and birthdays. I've ask them many times if they'd like us to sell the ranch and move closer and everytime they say no. Id guess in the last 25 years I've been off Thanksgiving and Christmas maybe 6-8 times. Holidays and weekends are just another day to us. It's all in what you want out of life. It's funny how the people that "have" put in the time and rarely complain but the "have nots" don't wanna put in the time but complain about the "haves" and expect them to pay more taxes etc.
At the end of the day the world needs both groups and I don't look down on anyone for their choices. Most days I think why am I doing all this? Maybe I'll sell out quit the job and start smoking crack. Lol It's all out there and the worlds full of opportunities, you just have to want it bad enough.
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I have seen two local people lose their wives late in life (65+) and pretty much destroy their relationship with their kids in the quest of land and cattle. Another one's marriage is in jeopardy as we speak and his son is followinh right in his foot steps and is in hot water with his wife.
They are all known as extremely driven, successful, hard workers around town. Most of their kids/ wives will sell asap because land and cattle have become curse words to them.
Every thing needs balance in life. More and more people value that balance than in years past.
They are all known as extremely driven, successful, hard workers around town. Most of their kids/ wives will sell asap because land and cattle have become curse words to them.
Every thing needs balance in life. More and more people value that balance than in years past.
puzzled in oregon
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It's mostly about choices. "$50 a day on beer and cigarettes". Or by the end of the month he could buy a nice cow
$50 a day on beer in cigarettes is practically impossible - if it were I would be doing it.It's mostly about choices. "$50 a day on beer and cigarettes". Or by the end of the month he could buy a nice cow
smartin0022
Well-known member
My loan agent Adam is in Shelbyville and he's a farmer as well so he understands and has always been really helpful moving money around trading out equipment culling and changing herd #'s he always works with me. But it ain't perfect I do like the annual payments and the low interest rates though before I paid off the equipment the rate was like 1.875%. Farm Loan is 3.5%. Yeah I agree they should have allowed you some way to prove out your experience without having lease agreements or subsidized crop claims etc. I can see how with the long application process and requirements, if you didn't have an agent willing to bend the rules to suit the applicant it could be difficult.
Dave
Well-known member
I was with a good friend of mine. One of the hardest working people I have ever known. He is a self made multi millionaire. We were at a friend of his place. Which is a beautiful place along the Thompson River in Montana. There was a young man there who I didn't know. The young man commented on what a nice place this was. He said the owner was lucky to have it. Both the owner and my friend quickly replied "what has luck got to do with it". He had this place because he worked long and hard.
What do you want in life and how hard are you willing to work to get it?
What do you want in life and how hard are you willing to work to get it?
My main advice to young people is always the same....Work hard and get used to it because things only get worse. The only other advice I have is to get with someone that has the same goals as you. If I was get a divorce today I'd make sure my wife got half of everything. She never questions my dumb decisions and supports me.
5 yrs ago I spent $55,000 on a new skidsteer. She found out when the delivery man called the business to ask for the gate code. She called me laughing about it even though she was wanting a new car really bad (hers is twenty years old).oh yes she's still driving the old car....maybe next year.
D2Cat
Well-known member
I always hear luck is when opportunity and preparedness meet.
Nesikep
Well-known member
There's few greater fallacies than working hard will lead to riches. Many a miner or ditch digger worked tremendous back breaking hours and received nothing in return otherthan a busted up body.
