Black baldie crosses

[Ashton V]

Sorry that this is probably a stupid question but im new to all this. If you cross a homozygous black gelbvieh or limo bull to hereford cows, would you come out with a black white faced calf like in a angus/hereford cross?

 

[dun]

Yes

 

[3waycross]

The key word here is Homozygous. Make sure the bull has been tested for that or you are in a crap shoot with every calf.

BTW if you are doing this as you say make sure that whatever bull you use has a good milk EPD

 

[Caustic Burno]

You don't have the crap shoot if you use a true black bull like Angus or stabilized composite like Brangus. The other blacks are just Angus genetics that are trying to sell a composite breed as the real thing.

 

[dun]

You don't have the crap shoot if you use a true black bull like Angus or stabilized composite like Brangus. The other blacks are just Angus genetics that are trying to sell a composite breed as the real thing.

That's why he specified homozygous black. Not all angus are homozygous black, but there is a btter chance with one then with the others unless they are proven to be homo black

 

[3waycross]

You don't have the crap shoot if you use a true black bull like Angus or stabilized composite like Brangus. The other blacks are just Angus genetics that are trying to sell a composite breed as the real thing.

Genetically tested for Homo blk is homo blk regardless of the breed. Why argue that point? And maybe he is looking for something besides FREAKIN ANGUS.

 

[Ashton V]

You don't have the crap shoot if you use a true black bull like Angus or stabilized composite like Brangus. The other blacks are just Angus genetics that are trying to sell a composite breed as the real thing.

Genetically tested for Homo blk is homo blk regardless of the breed. Why argue that point? And maybe he is looking for something besides FREAKIN ANGUS.

Exactly. As long as the bull is homo black, does breed really come into the color factor? Even if it is a cross bull? The reason i am asking is to mix it up a bit instead of just angus/hereford. I would like to get some gelbvieh or limo in the mix somewhere. Really wouldn't mind getting some simmental in there either. Just trying to look at my options.

 

[Caustic Burno]

You don't have the crap shoot if you use a true black bull like Angus or stabilized composite like Brangus. The other blacks are just Angus genetics that are trying to sell a composite breed as the real thing.

Genetically tested for Homo blk is homo blk regardless of the breed. Why argue that point? And maybe he is looking for something besides FREAKIN ANGUS.

If he is truely wanting to maximizing growth ne should be looking for a Cont/Brimmer cross bull to put on herefords. If it is Black he is getting Angus genetics. No way round that.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

AshtonV there is going to be a fairly good sized Limosin bull sale in Durrant OK Dec. 11. You can google American Cattle Services web site to see a sale catalog. There is almost always a 100 head of bulls. Red and black.

 

[Ashton V]

AshtonV there is going to be a fairly good sized Limosin bull sale in Durrant OK Dec. 11. You can google American Cattle Services web site to see a sale catalog. There is almost always a 100 head of bulls. Red and black.

Thanks for the info. Thats actually not too far from me. I really like the idea of a low birth weight limo bull. I think i will make sure and go to that one. Looks like they are going to have quite a few bulls there.

 

[cypressfarms]

Ashton V,

What is it that your shooting for?

 

[fargus]

You don't have the crap shoot if you use a true black bull like Angus or stabilized composite like Brangus. The other blacks are just Angus genetics that are trying to sell a composite breed as the real thing.

Genetically tested for Homo blk is homo blk regardless of the breed. Why argue that point? And maybe he is looking for something besides FREAKIN ANGUS.

If he is truely wanting to maximizing growth ne should be looking for a Cont/Brimmer cross bull to put on herefords. If it is Black he is getting Angus genetics. No way round that.

That's only your opinion. Stating it as unalterable truth is ridiculous.

I won't speak to the performance part of the equation that far south, I'm out of my league. But I feel compelled to comment on the color genetics portion of this thread.

It is true that a black Limo, Simmental or Gelbvieh received their black gene from an Angus source. (That's why you'll see those breed registries differentiate between "fullblood" and "purebred.") However, to state that they are "composites trying to pass themselves off as the real thing" is a huge overstatement. The bare minimum is 7/8, and most require 15/16 "pure" to be registered as such. Now, if you sort hard and select the progeny that encompass all of the traits you desire, at the end of the day you have a black purebred, not a composite. The wonders of genetic recombination allow that to happen. If you are claiming that the Angus breed "owns" the black gene then I guess you are buying at least one Angus gene. I don't believe that, and I get tired of hearing it.

I personally don't care what color they are, they're all the same once the skin comes off. Hope you can find a bull that is going to fit your needs AshtonV, good luck.

 

[Caustic Burno]

You might want to study up on Hybred vigor it is well documented that max growth is ahieved through the mating of a terminal sire that results in a 3 way cross contaning English/Cont/Brahman genetics. You might want to look at table three. This is free money in pounds to the cattleman.

http://www.thecattlesite.com/articles/8 ... eef-cattle

 

[haase]

Not really sure why he needs to study up on hybrid vigor and brahman genetics, the question was about using a limo or gelbvieh bull on hereford cows. Like fargus said there not trying pass off as a composite, my papers on my cows from nalf all say % ba or % ra, dont really think their trying to fool anyone, their just not like the angus breed and have done everything on their own. :roll:

 

[cypressfarms]

I'm still curious as to what Ashton is trying to get. If you have "limo" black baldies and try to pass them off as Angus/Herf black baldies you will not give the customer what they expect - especially if they are buying heifers as replacements.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Not really sure why he needs to study up on hybrid vigor and brahman genetics, the question was about using a limo or gelbvieh bull on hereford cows. Like fargus said there not trying pass off as a composite, my papers on my cows from nalf all say % ba or % ra, dont really think their trying to fool anyone, their just not like the angus breed and have done everything on their own. :roll:

That was fargus that said there was no data on the three way cross and that it was just an opinon.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

I'm still curious as to what Ashton is trying to get. If you have "limo" black baldies and try to pass them off as Angus/Herf black baldies you will not give the customer what they expect - especially if they are buying heifers as replacements.

yep you gotta feel sorry for those order buyers to.. poor guys have been at it so long, they cant tell a black continental from strait angus

 

[fargus]

Not really sure why he needs to study up on hybrid vigor and brahman genetics, the question was about using a limo or gelbvieh bull on hereford cows. Like fargus said there not trying pass off as a composite, my papers on my cows from nalf all say % ba or % ra, dont really think their trying to fool anyone, their just not like the angus breed and have done everything on their own. :roll:

That was fargus that said there was no data on the three way cross and that it was just an opinon.

Sorry, there is lots of data on three way crosses. We use them as much as possible, but this far north we don't use any Brahma genetics, we lose more than we gain. All I meant was I couldn't comment on which breeds work the best in a crossing scheme that far south.... I can only comment on our experiences up here. The opinion bit was about black being Angus and only Angus.

 

[Lucky_P]

fargus,
I'm with you on the "Black doesn't necessarily = Angus" thing; sure, most of the black Continentals we now have got those black color gene from a black cow somewhere back in their ancestry - but it could also have been a Holstein(some of my black SimAngus-influenced cows were bred up from a Holstein base), or any nondescript black crossbred cow. Polled genes also were mostly contributed by Angus/Red Angus/Polled Hereford, etc., but regardless of color, the 'percentage' of Simmental, Gelbvieh, etc. in those purebreds is still 15/16 or greater.