Angus bull thoughts.

[ALACOWMAN]

Well since the other thread been locked.. here's a Angus bull that can be bought for 2500 or less. little older for some maybe .if he were here,I'd surely be interested. https://cattlerange.com/listings/bantaj405/1-reg-angus-bull-central-tx/

 

[sim.-ang.king]

I guess no one notice the twisted scrotum, and uneven testicles in the second pic.


Off to the feedlot with you!

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Well since the other thread been locked.. here's a Angus bull that can be bought for 2500 or less. little older for some maybe .if he were here,I'd surely be interested. https://cattlerange.com/listings/bantaj405/1-reg-angus-bull-central-tx/

He's a dandy.

 

[CattleMan1920]

Time will tell. You may be right. He lives in Montana and has semen available if you want to try " going against the crowd" which you claim to be quite fond of.

I totally agree with you, but if I crossed him with mine I would basically be emphasizing $EN and DMI even further than I already have it. Again, I'm assuming, I haven't seen his registration.

I like the bull, don't get me wrong, and I DO like going against the grain, but I'm betting he is not strong on the traits I'm trying to develop.

 

[CreekAngus]

Time will tell. You may be right. He lives in Montana and has semen available if you want to try " going against the crowd" which you claim to be quite fond of.

I totally agree with you, but if I crossed him with mine I would basically be emphasizing $EN and DMI even further than I already have it. Again, I'm assuming, I haven't seen his registration.

I like the bull, don't get me wrong, and I DO like going against the grain, but I'm betting he is not strong on the traits I'm trying to develop.

Branded; do you always chase the numbers? I prefer phenotype over numbers, I kind of compare raising cattle to lifting weights; I don't care to bench 300lbs, but I want to look like I can....I want my cattle to look like they the numbers are amazing, but I'm not all that concerned if their epds are rock solid. We can always mess with the numbers, I have one that has a horrible ww of 29, plugged Acclaim in her and wa'la, now I have progeny that is respectable on paper, but possibly a disaster in all reality. I ask this with sincerity, are you customers concerned about numbers or phenotype? After reading a lot of your posts it appears your neighbors are about as savvy as mine and they have no idea what $B, $EN or even YH is and they can barely make out WW.

 

[Midtenn]

That white we're seeing in the photo I think may be blades of grass out of focus in the forefront? Not positive.
I like the looks of that bull ALOT., but where's his nutz? I also would be willing to bet high positive $EN and low ww, low $B. I bet he's not a great bull for making steers to sale, but if you wanted a herd builder to produce trouble free cows I bet he'd be a dandy.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

Time will tell. You may be right. He lives in Montana and has semen available if you want to try " going against the crowd" which you claim to be quite fond of.

I totally agree with you, but if I crossed him with mine I would basically be emphasizing $EN and DMI even further than I already have it. Again, I'm assuming, I haven't seen his registration.

I like the bull, don't get me wrong, and I DO like going against the grain, but I'm betting he is not strong on the traits I'm trying to develop.

Branded; do you always chase the numbers? I prefer phenotype over numbers, I kind of compare raising cattle to lifting weights; I don't care to bench 300lbs, but I want to look like I can....I want my cattle to look like they the numbers are amazing, but I'm not all that concerned if their epds are rock solid. We can always mess with the numbers, I have one that has a horrible ww of 29, plugged Acclaim in her and wa'la, now I have progeny that is respectable on paper, but possibly a disaster in all reality. I ask this with sincerity, are you customers concerned about numbers or phenotype? After reading a lot of your posts it appears your neighbors are about as savvy as mine and they have no idea what $B, $EN or even YH is and they can barely make out WW.

Do you remembers those guys that could bench 300 pnds..but didn't look like they could?? :cowboy:

 

[Silver]

Time will tell. You may be right. He lives in Montana and has semen available if you want to try " going against the crowd" which you claim to be quite fond of.

I totally agree with you, but if I crossed him with mine I would basically be emphasizing $EN and DMI even further than I already have it. Again, I'm assuming, I haven't seen his registration.

I like the bull, don't get me wrong, and I DO like going against the grain, but I'm betting he is not strong on the traits I'm trying to develop.

Wouldn't it be easier to just breed Simmental rather than chase them?

 

[Mossy Dell]

Well. He is nice to look at . . . But I'd look right quick at his heifer pregnancy and maternal calving ease EPDs. I have been really disappointed in how many Angus, even reds, don't line up there. Maybe hp does not matter so much if you are crossbreeding. I don't know. But I want to stack traits of economic relevance. And nothing is more important than reproduction. If you ever have a heifer fail to breed or cows with rough births you will agree.

Most Angus bulls, old historic lines notably included, do not impress me regarding their numbers. And I do take numbers very seriously. Sure they are not perfect. But they are 10,000 times more powerful than any other selection method at separating nature and nurture.

Appearance is highly heritable compared to most other economically important traits. Those who focus on appearance get it. To really be in the breeding game, you need good conformation and good numbers.

 

[Nesikep]

I can't bench anything, but (when my tendinitis isn't flaring up), I can do darned good on an arm wrestle... Might not be able to bench, but I can throw bales, carry uncooperative, slimy calves, etc

 

[ALACOWMAN]

That white we're seeing in the photo I think may be blades of grass out of focus in the forefront? Not positive.

That's Exactally what it looks like.....You can see it in the top picture on the front legs and back... It's the grass heads .got mixed up in the pic..

 

[Muddy]

I can't bench anything, but (when my tendinitis isn't flaring up), I can do darned good on an arm wrestle... Might not be able to bench, but I can throw bales, carry uncooperative, slimy calves, etc

Cool bro

 

[CattleMan1920]

Time will tell. You may be right. He lives in Montana and has semen available if you want to try " going against the crowd" which you claim to be quite fond of.

I totally agree with you, but if I crossed him with mine I would basically be emphasizing $EN and DMI even further than I already have it. Again, I'm assuming, I haven't seen his registration.

I like the bull, don't get me wrong, and I DO like going against the grain, but I'm betting he is not strong on the traits I'm trying to develop.

Branded; do you always chase the numbers? I prefer phenotype over numbers, I kind of compare raising cattle to lifting weights; I don't care to bench 300lbs, but I want to look like I can....I want my cattle to look like they the numbers are amazing, but I'm not all that concerned if their epds are rock solid. We can always mess with the numbers, I have one that has a horrible ww of 29, plugged Acclaim in her and wa'la, now I have progeny that is respectable on paper, but possibly a disaster in all reality. I ask this with sincerity, are you customers concerned about numbers or phenotype? After reading a lot of your posts it appears your neighbors are about as savvy as mine and they have no idea what $B, $EN or even YH is and they can barely make out WW.

I have a bull right now that if on your operation would probably make your neighbors jealous. He is a beautiful bull, but he has low $B. What does beautiful get me at weaning? Don't get me wrong, he's a strong bull from a maternal trait standpoint and efficiency traits, but he is not going to make it happen on the feedlot like say an EXAR Denver 2002B son.

I seriously wish you the best in ignoring EPD's. Do you think Zoetis and Angus has put that much research into things for the fun of it? For sh.ts and giggles? Those numbers have serious ramifications.

The bull I have never fails to make people giddy when they stand beside him, but if I could trade him for Hoover Dam, it would take less than a nanosecond for me to make that decision.

My clients don't ask about all the EPD's, they have to be explained, and that is a good point you brought up. What they are concerned about is this, will this bull make some nice steers that wean off strong? Will this bull make some high-quality daughters? The answer is yes for Stone Gate Kingston, it's H.LL YES! for Hoover Dam.

I can tell you without a doubt that my Hoover Dam and Connealy Capitalist daughters are better than the daughters from Stone Gate Kingston. Hands down.

 

[Ebenezer]

he has low $B. What does beautiful get me at weaning?

WW a factor in $B index? Was not aware of that.

 

[CattleMan1920]

he has low $B. What does beautiful get me at weaning?

WW a factor in $B index? Was not aware of that.

I've always noticed that animals we have in the herd with high $B values are significantly heavier at weaning than those in the lower percentile. There is an ancillary effect of a high $B animal. I cannot exactly explain why, but I've never seen big weaning weights off of the extreme $EN, DMI animals, with low percentile $B numbers. They are almost always in the 500 range no matter how much you throw at them as far as inputs. I've tested this theory with Stone Gate bulls, versus AI bulls. The AI bulls blow past 500 well before their 205 weighing. You can argue this all you want with me, but I have done the comparisons and I have seen it with my own two eyes. I've never had a son from a high CED, very high DMI and $EN, low birthweight bull ever top 700 at weaning. If others have that is great. My AI sons from SAV are a whole different ballgame, however.

Here is an exact explanation from Angus, do with it what you will.

Beef Value ($B) facilitates what almost every beef breeder is already seeking - simultaneous multi-trait genetic selection for feedlot and carcass merit, based on dollars and cents. $B represents the expected average dollar-per-head difference in the progeny postweaning performance and carcass value compared to progeny of other sires. The $B value is comprised of two pieces: $F and $G. To align $B with marketplace realities and appropriately value carcass weight in Angus cattle, the following factors are incorporated into the final calculations for $B.

$B is not simply the sum of $F and $G.

Projected carcass weight and its value are calculated, along with production cost differences.

$B takes into consideration any discount for heavyweight carcasses.

Final adjustments are made to prevent double-counting weight between feedlot and carcass segments.

The resulting $B value is not designed to be driven by one factor, such as quality, red meat yield or weight. Instead, it is a dynamic result of the application of commercial market values to Angus genetics for both feedlot and carcass merit.

 

[CattleMan1920]

It's boring around here without Ron. He should not have been banned.

I'm thinking it's time for me to check out for a while, even though I'm not banned.

I guess I didn't try hard enough. LOL!

See you all later.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

It's boring around here without Ron. He should not have been banned.

I'm thinking it's time for me to check out for a while, even though I'm not banned.

I guess I didn't try hard enough. LOL!

See you all later.

Goodbye James. Come back in 9 days please.

 

[W.B.]

I was thinking about all the "advancements" in breeding, and all the super new bulls out there as a result of it. I've never made it a secret that I'm not the worlds biggest fan of Angus, but this bull does look pretty good to me. Wrong colour, sadly.
Thoughts?

Silver, you know full well this is pot stirring at its best. . How long before this thread is locked? I think we should take odds.

 

[jehosofat]

It's boring around here without Ron. He should not have been banned.

I'm thinking it's time for me to check out for a while, even though I'm not banned.

I guess I didn't try hard enough. LOL!

See you all later.

Tough crowd without a "yes man"

 

[CreekAngus]

I totally agree with you, but if I crossed him with mine I would basically be emphasizing $EN and DMI even further than I already have it. Again, I'm assuming, I haven't seen his registration.

I like the bull, don't get me wrong, and I DO like going against the grain, but I'm betting he is not strong on the traits I'm trying to develop.

Branded; do you always chase the numbers? I prefer phenotype over numbers, I kind of compare raising cattle to lifting weights; I don't care to bench 300lbs, but I want to look like I can....I want my cattle to look like they the numbers are amazing, but I'm not all that concerned if their epds are rock solid. We can always mess with the numbers, I have one that has a horrible ww of 29, plugged Acclaim in her and wa'la, now I have progeny that is respectable on paper, but possibly a disaster in all reality. I ask this with sincerity, are you customers concerned about numbers or phenotype? After reading a lot of your posts it appears your neighbors are about as savvy as mine and they have no idea what $B, $EN or even YH is and they can barely make out WW.

I have a bull right now that if on your operation would probably make your neighbors jealous. He is a beautiful bull, but he has low $B. What does beautiful get me at weaning? Don't get me wrong, he's a strong bull from a maternal trait standpoint and efficiency traits, but he is not going to make it happen on the feedlot like say an EXAR Denver 2002B son.

I seriously wish you the best in ignoring EPD's. Do you think Zoetis and Angus has put that much research into things for the fun of it? For sh.ts and giggles? Those numbers have serious ramifications.

The bull I have never fails to make people giddy when they stand beside him, but if I could trade him for Hoover Dam, it would take less than a nanosecond for me to make that decision.

My clients don't ask about all the EPD's, they have to be explained, and that is a good point you brought up. What they are concerned about is this, will this bull make some nice steers that wean off strong? Will this bull make some high-quality daughters? The answer is yes for Stone Gate Kingston, it's H.LL YES! for Hoover Dam.

I can tell you without a doubt that my Hoover Dam and Connealy Capitalist daughters are better than the daughters from Stone Gate Kingston. Hands down.

You kind of took off all over the place on that answer. In no way did I state I ignore EPD's but you can infer that I choose not to chase them. And I don't know if I should take all that much stock in DNA, SAV doesn't (tongue in cheek). In my program numbers are nice, focus primarily on ww, yw, yh and $B and not to forget doc, but I never choose a bull base on the numbers, rather his phenotype, the progeny he's been show to produce and the dam he's out of. I was wondering if you are numbers breeder, I have few friends who go that route and it's their program and they do ok with it.