Which Angus bull to use ?
- Thread starter Richnm
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Ebenezer
Well-known member
Quite extreme.
Richnm
Well-known member
Good or bad ? Lol
GoWyo
Well-known member
Did she calve in September as a 2-year old? How is her calf growing? What feed is she on raising her calf and is she holding, gaining or losing condition? Does she fit your environment with her performance? Her EPDs say she will be a large cow when mature. Do you want bigger, smaller or is she just right?
Richnm
Well-known member
She did. I haven't registered her heifer yet. The calf is about 70 pounds heavier than the contemporary calves. 12 calves in the group.
Josher
Well-known member
Ellingson profound
Adds power good growth maybe a bit light on milk would be the biggest issue
Adds power good growth maybe a bit light on milk would be the biggest issue
Richnm
Well-known member
I was thinking Prolific , I will look up Profound
I do like your cow and her numbers. Do you ever go to Bullbarn.com and go to the Black Angus "EPD Comparisons?" You really need a big screen computer to play on this site. But have two windows open and one window with the list of sires where you can click on their pictures as there are hundreds. But pull up the EPD comparison page in another window, and when you click on the top where it says, "BW" or "CE" etc... click on that, and it will re-arrange the entire list of bulls starting with the #1 bull for that trait.
Well, I just went to the site and it says the server is down so hopefully the EPD selection tool will be back up tomorrow. But this is my favorite bull site to search and compare. I will look too as I would hold to your cows EPD's as well, and you can get a top conformation bull to go with that. I see that you like the big framed cattle as well. They sure off great when they are weaned. I will scan too to see what I can find.
I am not telling you how to breed her at all, but she does have top EPD's and I would not let those drop.
I did see the Ellingson Profound, but your cow is a 1.0 frame and the bull is .3 frame, as if I wanted to maintain a large frame, that bull is small. And his Carcass traits are not equal to you cow.. I would hold with her Ribeye and increase her Marbling if I could. Your cow has . 41 marbling and a 1.00 Ribeye. I would find a bull that is equal or greater in numbers. This is how you improve your herd. Your cow is on top of the EPD's and I would not pull her down any.
One number to look to increase on her is her Scrotal mark. All animals have something that can be improved. Basically, you can average the number. She is a .32 and average scrotal marks are .79 for Dams and .85 for bulls. That will be easy to pull up. The Profound bull has a Scrotal of 1.12. So averaging the two would be .72. I would try to find one higher than that. I am not big on Profounds top line.
I wish I could sleep like normal people. Neck pain wakes me up all hours of the night. Let me look as I love to play with the EPD's and the crossings.
How are you on the frame size? I like large frame as when they hit weaning and yearling, they just are stronger. Mostly if you are going to show them. I didn't show, but the sure profile nice. Let me look more....... I see all of your other numbers as well.
Well, I just went to the site and it says the server is down so hopefully the EPD selection tool will be back up tomorrow. But this is my favorite bull site to search and compare. I will look too as I would hold to your cows EPD's as well, and you can get a top conformation bull to go with that. I see that you like the big framed cattle as well. They sure off great when they are weaned. I will scan too to see what I can find.
I am not telling you how to breed her at all, but she does have top EPD's and I would not let those drop.
I did see the Ellingson Profound, but your cow is a 1.0 frame and the bull is .3 frame, as if I wanted to maintain a large frame, that bull is small. And his Carcass traits are not equal to you cow.. I would hold with her Ribeye and increase her Marbling if I could. Your cow has . 41 marbling and a 1.00 Ribeye. I would find a bull that is equal or greater in numbers. This is how you improve your herd. Your cow is on top of the EPD's and I would not pull her down any.
One number to look to increase on her is her Scrotal mark. All animals have something that can be improved. Basically, you can average the number. She is a .32 and average scrotal marks are .79 for Dams and .85 for bulls. That will be easy to pull up. The Profound bull has a Scrotal of 1.12. So averaging the two would be .72. I would try to find one higher than that. I am not big on Profounds top line.
I wish I could sleep like normal people. Neck pain wakes me up all hours of the night. Let me look as I love to play with the EPD's and the crossings.
How are you on the frame size? I like large frame as when they hit weaning and yearling, they just are stronger. Mostly if you are going to show them. I didn't show, but the sure profile nice. Let me look more....... I see all of your other numbers as well.
I want to share this bull with you. He has one number that needs to pull your cow up higher and that is his scrotal mark. He is well above average, but he is 1.01 That still will average the calf out below average. And his Ribeye is a .90 and your cow is a 1.00. But his marbling is a 1.39 that will pull your cows up to .90 Her Ribeye wil be be averaged out to a .95 with this bull. But he is one of the highest EPD bulls I have seen all the way across the board. His WW and YW will pull your cows numbers up.. I will say that on his conformation. That I am not as big on his hind quarters. He has smaller hindquarters. I like to see the muscling tie down further close to his hock. Look at him on Bull Barn and look at his EPD.s Still let me see if I can find a higher scrotal and more weight in the rear end. Check out how high his EPD's are all the way across the board. See how high his Values are. His Combined value is 347, and $B is 208 Your cow is slightly higher on Feedlot but they are real close there. He is a .9 Frame and in Maternal Height as well. Lower PAP number but his feet scores are close to your cows.
I wish I could give this bull a heavier rump as that can be a couple hundred pounds going across the scale if you have several calves if you are looking to raise herd bulls out of your cows. Still looking......
And yes, I know EPD's are a tool. But I find that if you study them that often you will come out ahead if you keep up with what you are buying with the EPD's.
This year was his first calf crop.
I wish I could give this bull a heavier rump as that can be a couple hundred pounds going across the scale if you have several calves if you are looking to raise herd bulls out of your cows. Still looking......
And yes, I know EPD's are a tool. But I find that if you study them that often you will come out ahead if you keep up with what you are buying with the EPD's.
This year was his first calf crop.
Richnm
Well-known member
I was considering Craftsman. I have been warned by a half a dozen people that seen him in stud that docility is an issue.
Richnm
Well-known member
Your advice is vey good. I agree with just about everything you said. I agree on not letting her #s fall. I looked at a few dozen Jameson calves that were dna tested. They did not inherit any #s from Jameson, they all seem to have had similar epds to their dams. What do you think of Ellingson Prolific? I would keep the hp, cem, and foot scores over marbling. Thanks
I have never heard that but the Sitz Resilient progeny are very uneven in that regard. We calved 35+ Stellar daughters with zero problems. In the case of Craftsman I guess time will tell. Some bull studs do not seem to bring the best out while others seem to have few problems.
In regards to your cow S Right Time 7861 wouldn't hurt her any. He most definitely adds scrotal.
In regards to your cow S Right Time 7861 wouldn't hurt her any. He most definitely adds scrotal.
Richnm, that is a good thing you did. Jameson is a new bull. I have been watching him for a while trying to figure out how he would turn out. I had my eyes on one calf of his, and that was all I knew about. Tell me where you check a bull's DNA or find information that we are speaking of. I went back to see if his numbers had dropped, and they were still high. But I did not know about any other calves besides the one I watched.
Do tell me where I can find how his numbers are running at this point. Is there such a site?
I just had company and they just left, and I want to write more here as EPD's are so interesting to me, and I enjoy the discussion as there is much to learn.
I noticed that the bullbarn EPD Comparisons tool is still out of order. I wonder if they are tweaking it again. I write them when it goes off. I just did not do it today. That is such a quick tool to use that I wear it out.
I personally would not want to lose any of her EPD's. I was thinking today about how so often, a very great cow is responsible for the bull and the heifers produced. Just like when we were talking to @Nesikep, he had that cow that keeps giving him these great heifers. I too have a cow that was named Sydgen Rachel, she was out of a Rachel cow and Sydgen Ally. And every heifer she had was outstanding, and each heifer she had was out standing, and now so many years later, her heifers are still giving us the top calves. So sometimes you can trace a great cow that throws bulls that will create your best calves, just like her. I found myself trying to track down a cow that had great calves, and then had to put it down.
Let me look at Prolific's EPD's right quick..
I wanted to say something about some really good bulls that come on the market, they advertise them heavily and they look great, then they disappear the following year. One of the bulls that I looked up I found discussed here was Sydgen Fate 0028. That is one heck of a bull, but, I don't like his back legs. That is what is the problem so often. But he is huge and muscular and his numbers would do your cow great, and not pull her down. I like his conformation all the way down till it gets to his back legs. What a shame!!
HP is heifer pregnancy. Before they came out with that number, the tool we used to determine the fertility and early fertility of a heifer was the scrotal size of the bull. When an embryo is developing, the testicles become ovaries in it is a heifer, or vice versa, if it is to be a bull, the ovaries then drop to be testicles. Not saying that they were either one in the beginning, but saying that is the same charting Ha-ha What and how that animal becomes male or female. So you always want a good or great scrotal number as it reflects on the heifers. Sydgen Fate 0028, his scrotal number is 2.03. I was going to him to see if he could pull that up on your cow, then I remembered his back legs. But as I look at Sydgen Fate's HP # is is only a 10.4??? And I wonder, what are they basing that on? I guess over the years of when someone decided to breed their heifer? I thought for sure that Scotal would be a part of deciding the fertileness. As I learned about EPD's early in the beginning, I always would just buy cows with high scrotal marks because it was an indicator of fertility and raising herd bulls.
Profoud....
His numbers are not bad at all. As of today, they don't pay you for RE or Marb when it goes across the scale. Unless you get into freezer beef. But those numbers and not awful.
If you like the looks of Profound, then he might be a good bull. I just don't know anything about him.
On Bullbarn, they have a category for videos. They have a video of Prolific, but not for Profound. I am not sure of the strength of Profounds back legs as he has them stretched out straight behind him. Let me locate a video if I can find one...... He is a really good looking bull, but they will not show him walking. Let me keep digging....
I had to come back and edit this, as this is a son of Profound 8155. But the leg set on 8155 is the same if not straighter. He will be a short stepper like below. Now to find the 8155 video, and they do not want to show it.
Walking below, this is what I don't care for. When he travels, there is more movement of his leg behind him that what you see going forward. I want my bull to step further forward as he must keep up with a cow when breeding. He has to move with her. This bull takes very short steps forward, but you will see more length of his leg trailing than going forward. Imagine a race horse that tried to run a race. How far they must be able to move their rear legs forward to keep propelling forward. I know he is not a horse, but the mechanics are the same. He must be athletic to be a long breeder. If I have a good bull with great legs, he will never go to the sale barn. He will always go to another herd. But a weak rear legged bull his life will be short.
I am always looking at the bulls and going over their numbers and if I see something else I will say something.
Do tell me where I can find how his numbers are running at this point. Is there such a site?
I just had company and they just left, and I want to write more here as EPD's are so interesting to me, and I enjoy the discussion as there is much to learn.
I noticed that the bullbarn EPD Comparisons tool is still out of order. I wonder if they are tweaking it again. I write them when it goes off. I just did not do it today. That is such a quick tool to use that I wear it out.
I personally would not want to lose any of her EPD's. I was thinking today about how so often, a very great cow is responsible for the bull and the heifers produced. Just like when we were talking to @Nesikep, he had that cow that keeps giving him these great heifers. I too have a cow that was named Sydgen Rachel, she was out of a Rachel cow and Sydgen Ally. And every heifer she had was outstanding, and each heifer she had was out standing, and now so many years later, her heifers are still giving us the top calves. So sometimes you can trace a great cow that throws bulls that will create your best calves, just like her. I found myself trying to track down a cow that had great calves, and then had to put it down.
Let me look at Prolific's EPD's right quick..
I wanted to say something about some really good bulls that come on the market, they advertise them heavily and they look great, then they disappear the following year. One of the bulls that I looked up I found discussed here was Sydgen Fate 0028. That is one heck of a bull, but, I don't like his back legs. That is what is the problem so often. But he is huge and muscular and his numbers would do your cow great, and not pull her down. I like his conformation all the way down till it gets to his back legs. What a shame!!
HP is heifer pregnancy. Before they came out with that number, the tool we used to determine the fertility and early fertility of a heifer was the scrotal size of the bull. When an embryo is developing, the testicles become ovaries in it is a heifer, or vice versa, if it is to be a bull, the ovaries then drop to be testicles. Not saying that they were either one in the beginning, but saying that is the same charting Ha-ha What and how that animal becomes male or female. So you always want a good or great scrotal number as it reflects on the heifers. Sydgen Fate 0028, his scrotal number is 2.03. I was going to him to see if he could pull that up on your cow, then I remembered his back legs. But as I look at Sydgen Fate's HP # is is only a 10.4??? And I wonder, what are they basing that on? I guess over the years of when someone decided to breed their heifer? I thought for sure that Scotal would be a part of deciding the fertileness. As I learned about EPD's early in the beginning, I always would just buy cows with high scrotal marks because it was an indicator of fertility and raising herd bulls.
Profoud....
His numbers are not bad at all. As of today, they don't pay you for RE or Marb when it goes across the scale. Unless you get into freezer beef. But those numbers and not awful.
If you like the looks of Profound, then he might be a good bull. I just don't know anything about him.
On Bullbarn, they have a category for videos. They have a video of Prolific, but not for Profound. I am not sure of the strength of Profounds back legs as he has them stretched out straight behind him. Let me locate a video if I can find one...... He is a really good looking bull, but they will not show him walking. Let me keep digging....
I had to come back and edit this, as this is a son of Profound 8155. But the leg set on 8155 is the same if not straighter. He will be a short stepper like below. Now to find the 8155 video, and they do not want to show it.
Walking below, this is what I don't care for. When he travels, there is more movement of his leg behind him that what you see going forward. I want my bull to step further forward as he must keep up with a cow when breeding. He has to move with her. This bull takes very short steps forward, but you will see more length of his leg trailing than going forward. Imagine a race horse that tried to run a race. How far they must be able to move their rear legs forward to keep propelling forward. I know he is not a horse, but the mechanics are the same. He must be athletic to be a long breeder. If I have a good bull with great legs, he will never go to the sale barn. He will always go to another herd. But a weak rear legged bull his life will be short.
I am always looking at the bulls and going over their numbers and if I see something else I will say something.
Last edited:
farmerjan
Well-known member
This is another son of Profound. I don't care for what he is passing in the rear end.
GoWyo
Well-known member
The Profound bull in Chuckie's video is struggling to walk and it isn't all just because he is obese.
This is Prolific #20136857
Farm Family
Well-known member
Agreed… nice bull that left a lot of impact on a lot of herds…can you still get semen on this guy? I heard hard to come by. We are running a Natural Law grandson and we are excited to see his calves develop
