Your Thoughts and Advice

[ccr]

looks like a lot of good advice here. i think i would meet face to face and discuss some of the suggestions that folks have given above.

i would not have a lawyer give him a call. lawsuits are expensive, time consuming, along with frustration and then there may be appeals and more expense. hate to hear someone say it's the principle of it. that's ok, but the principle of it can be expensive and not worth it in my opinion.

 

[Hippie Rancher]

If the guy was reputable and thought he was in the right he would have taken the time to explain "the rules of the sale" from his perspective or been a little more caught off guard. When you get those short, smart azz, quick, defensive responses... it's from people who are use to getting those calls. He keeps that "at least you got a calf" card in his back pocket. I assure you... you weren't the first person he ever told that. ;-)

you do have a point

 

[TwoByrdsMG]

OK - to answer a few questions that have been asked above, basically, the phone conversation was "at least you had a live calf" and that the person performing the ultra sounds "doesn't always get the sex right" (although this was never announced prior to sale or mentioned in the sale catalog. Update sheet given with sale catalog states that the sex of the calf is a heifer along with approximate due date. Catalog states that the farm is proud to stand behind each and every lot in this offering.

How would you, as a seller, handle this if you sold this cow under these conditions? Also, what would be a fair offer for me to ask if we were to get a chance to make things right?

Thanks for all the replies. I don't want to seek any ill rebuke toward this seller. I purchased this cow due to the heifer she was carrying with hopes to use this heifers genetics in our Angus program. I would like to go back and possibly purchase cattle
at next years sale. Maybe a polite phone call from a lawyer friend would encourage the seller to make things right??

I would ask for a replacement heifer born around the same time by the same sire in exchange for the bull calf. If he has a 100% guarantee than this is not an unreasonable request. I would think that it would be preferable that a price adjustment but I understand if you want to just get it settled and move on.

As a producer I would not guarantee that a calf is a heifer I would say sexed heifer semen or ultrasound tech says its likely a heifer. No guarantees on sex but guarantee that she is bred and due around a certain time.

We also bought a heifer who is due in January with sexed semen. Hope its a heifer...

 

[Redgully]

Personally I'd take a drive and talk face to face. Go into the conversation thinking you wont get anything but give it a try and build a relationship with an eye to the future. No threats but express disappointment if he doesn't come to an agreement.

 

[kilroy60]

Sometimes the calf a heifer/cow is with provides a big part of the reason for a purchase. I recently bought a heifer at the Kentucky Simmental Association annual sale in Lexington because she is AI bred to Lover Boy. Jeanne sent me a text during the Auction to pay attention to this heifer as she was bred to a good bull. I won the bid on the heifer which was nice in her own right but the calf was the primary incentive to bid.

Exactly my point. The heifer that the cow was going to have was the reason we made the purchase. Had no sex of the calf been indicated, we may have still made an attempt at making the purchase but would have not have spent the money we did for the unknown sex of the calf.

As far as sexed semen goes, I don't believe the company that sells the semen 100% guarantees that the sexed semen will be what you ask for, so no, I wouldn't / couldn't sue the semen company.

I basically don't intend to legal up on this issue. And, if it was where I did, you can bet that I wouldn't do business with this farmer again. And, depending on how all this works out, I may never again anyway.

So, thanks for all the comments and suggestions. I hope that we can get things worked out in the near future with this and continue a good relationship going forward. I'll update how this works out.

 

[tom4018]

I have had problems a few times out of heifers bought out of sales, none the same breeder. First time a heifer sold as bred was in heat within a couple weeks, called the guy and he said bring her back. He actually just handed me my check back as it had never been deposited.

Second one the guy said bring her back, he sold her in my name for slaughter and gave me the difference as credit in the next sale. I was ok with that.

Third time a heifer would not produce milk, guy just said sorry about your luck. I don't plan on buying anything from him again. Talk to the guy face to face with reasonable expectations and see what happens. If you don't get satisfied just never do business again with him. Unless it is a very high dollar cow I can't see the value of getting a lawyer involved.

 

[Bright Raven]

Sometimes the calf a heifer/cow is with provides a big part of the reason for a purchase. I recently bought a heifer at the Kentucky Simmental Association annual sale in Lexington because she is AI bred to Lover Boy. Jeanne sent me a text during the Auction to pay attention to this heifer as she was bred to a good bull. I won the bid on the heifer which was nice in her own right but the calf was the primary incentive to bid.

Exactly my point. The heifer that the cow was going to have was the reason we made the purchase. Had no sex of the calf been indicated, we may have still made an attempt at making the purchase but would have not have spent the money we did for the unknown sex of the calf.

As far as sexed semen goes, I don't believe the company that sells the semen 100% guarantees that the sexed semen will be what you ask for, so no, I wouldn't / couldn't sue the semen company.

I basically don't intend to legal up on this issue. And, if it was where I did, you can bet that I wouldn't do business with this farmer again. And, depending on how all this works out, I may never again anyway.

So, thanks for all the comments and suggestions. I hope that we can get things worked out in the near future with this and continue a good relationship going forward. I'll update how this works out.

To my memory, all the sales I go to, the general statement on sex is along these lines:

"Ultrasound confirms cow/heifer with calf. The ultrasound indicates the calf is a heifer".

Thus, the buyer bids accordingly at the risk that the calf may not be of the sex indicated by the Ultrasound. Often times these late determinations are stated in a "Supplementary Sheet" which is posted on the web a few days prior to the sale and made available at the table where you get your bidder's number. I have never seen a "guarantee" on the sex. But this is just my experience and the sales I go to are almost exclusively Simmental.

 

[gizmom]

I would double check how the sale is written up, ultra sounded for a heifer calf and guarantee of a heifer calf are vastly different. We have had ultrasound done and would never guarantee the sex. Ultrasound is a great technology but certainly not 100%. I'm not saying he didn't guarantee it I don't have a clue, I just have trouble understanding any breeder putting a guarantee on the sex of the calf. I would say ultra sounded safe for a heifer calf if in fact the cow had been ultra sounded and the tech called it a heifer. I would also let the buyer know if I had used sexed semen, but in either case I still wouldn't offer a guarantee of sex. I can sure understand being disappointed when your expecting a heifer and don't get it, but if your after those particular genetics you might find getting the bull calf is a blessing in disguise you can certainly infuse the genetic faster using that bull in your herd. Just trying to see the bright side.

Gizmom

 

[insurman]

"well at least you had a live calf"

If that is what he said and said it with a straight face...then he knew he got caught and was just hoping no one would call him on it.

Prob a worthless POS and you just have to decide how much pressure you want to apply to him..and if it was me and had caught me at a bad time, like now...(having to pay a lot more in tax to the IRS than anticipated) then I would have made it real uncomfortable for him...even thou it would not do any good.

Good luck.

 

[polledbull]

was a sale manager involved in the sale, if so contact him. also be persistant but nice,