Your defintion of moderate frame ?

[Bonsman]

I have to say that to me a 5 is a medium frame and a 6 is a moderate frame. I have a friend that would take issue with using a .5. I have been told that when you start inserting a 5.5 or a 6.5 you are changing frame sizes from 1-10 to 1-20. For example, on a 1-20 scale, a 5 would be a 10. A 5.5 would be an 11. Are we using a 1-20 scale now? Are we going to use a 1-100 frame score in the future where a 50 is a current 5; and a 55 would be a 5.5? Where does it stop?

At the same time I was instructed not to use fractions; I was instructed that a "high" five was a moderate frame. So my friend immediately contradicted himself. I do not claim to have a dog in this fight, I only wanted to share some information that was provided to me.

Thoughts?

Bonsman

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Bonsman - not sure what you are talking about - 1-20 frame scale?????
Frame scores are 1-9. It doesn't make any difference how much you break it down into decimels. If you were using a computer program to calculate frame size - it is broken down into "tenths". It is STILL 1-9 frame size. A 5.5 is just half way between a 5 & a 6 - 9 (nine) is still the highest frame.

 

[JHH]

This guy is my definition of moderate.He weighed 1225 in this pic. This was my daughters steer from last year.

 

[novatech]

When one states a number on frame size we will generally get a mental picture of about how big the animal is. I have seen many of these so called 5 and 6 framed cattle that are a lot larger than some of the 7's I have seen. I have owned some 8's that would be a lot more efficient than some 5's I have seen.
Moderate frame numbers, I think, are based on a generalization of probably European cattle, Hereford, Angus, etc.

 

[KNERSIE]

When one states a number on frame size we will generally get a mental picture of about how big the animal is. I have seen many of these so called 5 and 6 framed cattle that are a lot larger than some of the 7's I have seen. I have owned some 8's that would be a lot more efficient than some 5's I have seen.
Moderate frame numbers, I think, are based on a generalization of probably European cattle, Hereford, Angus, etc.

Framescore only tells you what the hip height is, don't confuse type for frame.

 

[novatech]

When one states a number on frame size we will generally get a mental picture of about how big the animal is. I have seen many of these so called 5 and 6 framed cattle that are a lot larger than some of the 7's I have seen. I have owned some 8's that would be a lot more efficient than some 5's I have seen.
Moderate frame numbers, I think, are based on a generalization of probably European cattle, Hereford, Angus, etc.

Framescore only tells you what the hip height is, don't confuse type for frame.

I agree it should only define hip hight.
If you look up frame score there are assumptions made about weight. Those assumptions define type. That is exactly what I am talking about.
Table 3. Relationship of frame size to projected
mature cow weight and slaughter weight at Choice
Quality Grade.
----------------------------------------------------
BIF
Numerical USDA Mature Steer Heifer
Frame Feeder Calf Cow Slaughter Slaughter
Score Frame Size Weight Weight Weight
----------------------------------------------------
2 Small 955 850 700
3 1030 950 800
----------------------------------------------------
4 Medium 1100 1050 900
5 1175 1150 1000
----------------------------------------------------
6 Large 1250 1250 1100
7 1320 1350 1200
8 1395 1450 1300
9 1470 1550 1400
----------------------------------------------------

 

[KNERSIE]

In the third world no mention is made of weight. According to the weights you posted my cattle must all be frame 7+ when in reality I only have 2 that are frame score 6, the rest is between 4 and 5.5

 

[dun]

In the third world no mention is made of weight. According to the weights you posted my cattle must all be frame 7+ when in reality I only have 2 that are frame score 6, the rest is between 4 and 5.5

That's where that elusive mythical "average" goes all wrong.

 

[Dylan Biggs]

In the third world no mention is made of weight. According to the weights you posted my cattle must all be frame 7+ when in reality I only have 2 that are frame score 6, the rest is between 4 and 5.5

That's where that elusive mythical "average" goes all wrong.

Yeah, I have had frame 4 cows that weigh 1400 lbs in BCS 6.

Here is a frame 4.5 cow (TKRA 75S) that weighs 1400 plus in BCS 5.

 

[robert]

give me a stout 1400lb'er anyday over a tall 1400lb'er!

 

[Dylan Biggs]

give me a stout 1400lb'er anyday over a tall 1400lb'er!

I agree! :tiphat:

 

[BC]

In the third world no mention is made of weight. According to the weights you posted my cattle must all be frame 7+ when in reality I only have 2 that are frame score 6, the rest is between 4 and 5.5

That's where that elusive mythical "average" goes all wrong.

Yeah, I have had frame 4 cows that weigh 1400 lbs in BCS 6.

Here is a frame 4.5 cow (TKRA 75S) that weighs 1400 plus in BCS 5.

That cow is closer to a BCS of 7 than a 5. Take 250 lbs off of her and she weighs about 1150 lbs (what a frame 4.5 cow should weigh in BCS 5 condition)

 

[KNERSIE]

Says who?

 

[BC]

Body condition scoring is subjective, but when the ribs are covered with fat, the hook bones are covered, and the area between the hooks and pins is plump and smooth - that is what I call a 7.

http://animalscience.tamu.edu/images/pd ... coring.pdf

 

[KNERSIE]

Let's try again.....

...and she weighs about 1150 lbs (what a frame 4.5 cow should weigh in BCS 5 condition)

Says who?

 

[BC]

In the picture that was posted
"Here is a frame 4.5 cow (TKRA 75S) that weighs 1400 plus in BCS 5."

I would say that the cow was in a BCS of close to 7. If she was in a BCS of 5 as stated, her weight would be more like 1150.

 

[Dylan Biggs]

In the picture that was posted
"Here is a frame 4.5 cow (TKRA 75S) that weighs 1400 plus in BCS 5."

I would say that the cow was in a BCS of close to 7. If she was in a BCS of 5 as stated, her weight would be more like 1150.

Sorry for not being clear, I did not claim she was in 5 in the photo, I said when she is in 5 she is 1400 lbs.

But this summer we may have to get some cows on the scale and get the measure stick out and take some photos to post for those who are skeptical that 4 and 5 frame cows can push the scale down in moderate condition. :cboy:

 

[Dylan Biggs]

In the picture that was posted
"Here is a frame 4.5 cow (TKRA 75S) that weighs 1400 plus in BCS 5."

I would say that the cow was in a BCS of close to 7. If she was in a BCS of 5 as stated, her weight would be more like 1150.

Skepticism on this issue is understandable if all one has seen are the other type. :tiphat:

 

[SRBeef]

I am not very qualified to comment on this thread however I have been under the impression that BCS was more a measure of fat and condition than size.

To establish frame score I have a series of marks on my chute to measure their hip height. That gives me a FRAME score.

But to measure BCS I have been using the Texas A & M approach where if you can not see any ribs they are a BCS 5. That is where I want mine to be, or higher. There is no mention of size. You can have a fat 1000 lb cow or an emaciated 1500 lb cow.

Are we mixing up Frame Score (FS) here with Body Condition Score (BCS)?

Jim

 

[KNERSIE]

In the picture that was posted
"Here is a frame 4.5 cow (TKRA 75S) that weighs 1400 plus in BCS 5."

I would say that the cow was in a BCS of close to 7. If she was in a BCS of 5 as stated, her weight would be more like 1150.

Skepticism on this issue is understandable if all one has seen are the other type. :tiphat:

That may be the case, but I question the folowing quote...

...and she weighs about 1150 lbs (what a frame 4.5 cow should weigh in BCS 5 condition)