so, what do the wooly worms and persimmons say this winter?

[Ouachita]

@greybeard, there are actually two different trees you might have seen for your tree, but I can't tell you which one you saw. The first, which I have seen plenty of and have made many, many deserts from (mostly persimmon pudding) is this: Diospyros virginiana is a persimmon species commonly called the American persimmon, common persimmon, eastern persimmon, simmon, possumwood, possum apples, or sugar plum. The other tree you might have saw is Diospyros texana, which is a species of persimmon that is native to central, south and west Texas and southwest Oklahoma in the United States, and eastern Chihuahua, Coahuila, Nuevo León, and Tamaulipas in northeastern Mexico. Common names include Texas persimmon, Mexican persimmon and the more ambiguous "black persimmon".[1] It is known in Spanish as chapote, chapote manzano, or chapote prieto,[2] all of which are derived from the Nahuatl word tzapotl. That word also refers to several other fruit-bearing trees. The Texas persimmon to me sounds like an entirely different tree or bush, but the fruit, based on the pictures, appears very similar to the American persimmon that I am familiar with. I really only ever hear the tree referred to as 'persimmon' which for me has only ever been thought of as the American persimmon. I don't know if the two trees are typically thought of as the same where they both exist or if the Texas Persimmon is thought of as something else and the American Persimmon simply referred to as persimmon. I like trees and I would like to see a Texas Persimmon sometime, and see if I can make deserts with its fruit as well.

The persimmons in the grocery store, there are actually multiple kinds, but are very seasonal, are large, for the persimmon I know. About the size of a baseball. They are orange like the ones I know. I have never tried them as they are hard and shiny/smooth when I see them. I equate that with an unripe persimmon that will make you pucker from now until next month. Don't want to ever eat a persimmon that isn't ripe yet. Once they are ripe, they taste wonderful. They have a flavor unlike anything else I've ever eaten.

Thank you Mr. Encyclopedia Botanicus

I now understand why the writer chose "sugar plums", instead of having visions of "possumwood" dancing in their head.

 

[Ky hills]

I have seen only 1 wild persimmon tree in my life in Texas and that was back in the '60s at our old home place I grew up on in Highlands. I do know they were growing somewhere at my property I moved from in 2022, as I have seen partially eaten persimmons on the ground but I never could find the tree they came off of. (I've also never seen persimmons for sale at a grocery store)

They are somewhat common here, none on our place though.
I saw a couple on my in laws place in southeast Oklahoma.

 

[Mark Reynolds]

As a younger immature person (last year), it was entertaining to trick family and friends into taking a bite out of a persimmon before first frost.

An elderly lady at our church used to always bring a persimmon pie to the fund raiser auction. It commanded top dollar, every time.

Humm.....I'm 54, but am I 'young and immature'? I still at times might try to get friends to try a 'green' persimmon.

I understand the pie commanding top dollar.

 

[Ebenezer]

@greybeard, there are actually two different trees you might have seen for your tree, but I can't tell you which one you saw. The first, which I have seen plenty of and have made many, many deserts from (mostly persimmon pudding) is this: Diospyros virginiana is a persimmon species commonly called the American persimmon, common persimmon, eastern persimmon, simmon, possumwood, possum apples, or sugar plum. The other tree you might have saw is Diospyros texana, which is a species of persimmon that is native to central, south and west Texas and southwest Oklahoma in the United States, and eastern Chihuahua, Coahuila, Nuevo León, and Tamaulipas in northeastern Mexico. Common names include Texas persimmon, Mexican persimmon and the more ambiguous "black persimmon".[1] It is known in Spanish as chapote, chapote manzano, or chapote prieto,[2] all of which are derived from the Nahuatl word tzapotl. That word also refers to several other fruit-bearing trees. The Texas persimmon to me sounds like an entirely different tree or bush, but the fruit, based on the pictures, appears very similar to the American persimmon that I am familiar with. I really only ever hear the tree referred to as 'persimmon' which for me has only ever been thought of as the American persimmon. I don't know if the two trees are typically thought of as the same where they both exist or if the Texas Persimmon is thought of as something else and the American Persimmon simply referred to as persimmon. I like trees and I would like to see a Texas Persimmon sometime, and see if I can make deserts with its fruit as well.

The persimmons in the grocery store, there are actually multiple kinds, but are very seasonal, are large, for the persimmon I know. About the size of a baseball. They are orange like the ones I know. I have never tried them as they are hard and shiny/smooth when I see them. I equate that with an unripe persimmon that will make you pucker from now until next month. Don't want to ever eat a persimmon that isn't ripe yet. Once they are ripe, they taste wonderful. They have a flavor unlike anything else I've ever eaten.

The big ones in the stores are Asian persimmons and nothing like the natives. They can be astringent or non-astringent when firm. The persimmons trees used to have a lot of value - enough for folks to steal logs - years ago when golf clubs that were "woods" were wood - persimmon wood. I don't know what the modern clubs are now as I have no link to golf but the trees are now in the pulpwood class of low value.

 

[Mountaintown Creek Ranch]

Doesn't count. You have to pick them out of a pile of coon droppings for any prediction to be valid.

Coons do love persimmons, it's amazing how many they eat.

My mom used to take us over to Red Hill State Park every year and there was some big persimmon trees over there and we go over pick a couple of bushels up.
And yes there were raccoons everywhere.

 

[kenny thomas]

Doesn't count. You have to pick them out of a pile of coon droppings for any prediction to be valid.

Coons do love persimmons, it's amazing how many they eat.

Almost every animal loves them. Coon, deer, possum, fox, even my cows. I probably have 20 or more on 1 farm but they are common here.
One fact i didn't learn until recently. Although they are native from Pennsylvania south to Florida and west into Arkansas the variety in the south matures at a little different time than the northern ones because of the length of the season. I have 1 tree where they will be ripe and falling off in late September. All the others i have it will be November or later. I have picked them up in January some years. Think i will check today.

 

[puzzled in oregon]

No Persimmon Trees here in my area that I am aware of. Rely on the Wooly Caterpillars to
gauge how much hay to put up.
This year the little guys seemed quite small compared to what they should be, so I put some
minerals out for them.
Their color pattern showed a bit milder winter.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Around here, it just depends on WHEN you try checking the wooly worms. They change color as the colder weather comes in.

 

[Ouachita]

Around here, it just depends on WHEN you try checking the wooly worms. They change color as the colder weather comes in.

I've found that to be true with persimmon seeds too, at least with our local trees. They typically start as knives and progress to spoons, then forks.

 

[Ouachita]

No Persimmon Trees here in my area that I am aware of. Rely on the Wooly Caterpillars to
gauge how much hay to put up.
This year the little guys seemed quite small compared to what they should be, so I put some
minerals out for them. ...............

Lemme guess......loose salt?

 

[puzzled in oregon]

Lemme guess......loose salt?

I started with that, then switched a complete mineral mix.

 

[SmokinM]

Everybody should stick their tongue on an unripe persimmon at least once in their life. It is the wildest thing in the world how fast it turns your whole mouth to chalk.

 

[Lucky_P]

I've had as many as 30 or so different American persimmon selections grafted and growing here at one time or another; Asian (kaki) persimmons froze out in 2007, and I never replaced them. Have a small collection of AsianXAmerican hybrids growing here now, along with some of the better American persimmon selections.
Of the American selections I've grown, the vast majority are ripe and gone, here, long before we ever get a frost or freeze, so the old saw about them not being edible until after a freeze does not hold up. There are some local wild persimmon trees that are still holding and dropping fruits, as of January 1.

Capt. John Smith wrote back to the folks in England about persimmons in America... "Plumbs, there be two types, one of which, if not ripe, will draw a man's mouth awrie with much torment."
The best real solution to that 'turning your mouth inside-out' feeling from eating an unripe persimmon is to eat a fully-ripe persimmon.

There are non-astringent Asian varieties (Fuyu, Jiro, etc.) that can be eaten while firm and crunchy, like an apple, while others must either be left to become soft and jelly-like - like Americans - or peeled/dried (hoshigaki), losing their astringency in the process.
Some of the astringent-til-ripe Asians found in groceries have had their astringency removed by treatment with CO2 &/or ethanol vapor.

The whole persimmon seed/woolly worm deal makes for fun, interesting discussion, but their predictive value is pretty much zero.

 

[Mark Reynolds]

@Lucky, you would appreciate a cookbook that I have which is dedicated to and is a whole collection, over 30 and as many as 50, recipes for using persimmons.

 

[Lucky_P]

@Lucky, you would appreciate a cookbook that I have which is dedicated to and is a whole collection, over 30 and as many as 50, recipes for using persimmons.

Mark,
I've got a couple of persimmon recipe cookbooks that I've collected over the years...
Persimmons for Everyone - Eugene & Mary Griffith
Persimmon Goodies - Dymple Green
I think there's another one somewhere in my files, as well as random recipes that I've collected along the way.

I have one particular Persimmon Pudding recipe from a former co-worker's grandmother, that is my favorite.

 

[Mark Reynolds]

Mark,
I've got a couple of persimmon recipe cookbooks that I've collected over the years...
Persimmons for Everyone - Eugene & Mary Griffith
Persimmon Goodies - Dymple Green
I think there's another one somewhere in my files, as well as random recipes that I've collected along the way.

I have one particular Persimmon Pudding recipe from a former co-worker's grandmother, that is my favorite.

Publishers Inc., 7172 North Keystone Ave., Suite A, Indianapolis, IN 46240

I might have to visit sometime. How far are you from Evansville, IN? My wife has relatives we visit there sometimes.
Bear Wallow Books

 

[BFE]

View attachment 38974Publishers Inc., 7172 North Keystone Ave., Suite A, Indianapolis, IN 46240

I might have to visit sometime. How far are you from Evansville, IN? My wife has relatives we visit there sometimes.
Bear Wallow Books

Not to butt in, but im an hour from Evansville. It's our closest city.

 

[coachg]

This guy fell out from under a roll of hay when I took the wrap off today .

 

[kenny thomas]

Clinchvalley86 sent me this picture earlier. Not sure he noticed the persimmon seed in it. Coyote poop.

 

[greybeard]

View attachment 38980
Clinchvalley86 sent me this picture earlier. Not sure he noticed the persimmon seed in it. Coyote poop.

But which silverware do they look like?