SAV Sale

[KMacGinley]

Just don't forget that those heifers will weigh more, but as cows, they will eat more as well. Those bulls look pretty, amazing what a coat of fat will do!

 

[Jovid]

Just don't forget that those heifers will weigh more, but as cows, they will eat more as well. Those bulls look pretty, amazing what a coat of fat will do!

If you can afford to feed the cows and creep the calves and then put the bulls on full feed a lot of cattle would look like that.

Do you think the $285,000 was real money?

 

[ALACOWMAN]

Just don't forget that those heifers will weigh more, but as cows, they will eat more as well. Those bulls look pretty, amazing what a coat of fat will do!

If you can afford to feed the cows and creep the calves and then put the bulls on full feed a lot of cattle would look like that.Do you think the $285,000 was real money?

if they got the genetics to..

 

[Jake]

I think the genetic propensity arguement has a lot of strength when it comes to this set of cattle. Fat or not they were quite good and were more than what I expected. We are having the problem of too small of cows now and need to increase weight without increasing frame. These bulls are simply a tool in the arsenal definately not the be all end all.

Rumors I have heard is that the second high seller would. Have brought $500,000 if they would have sold full interest. With the popularity of these genetics internationally it doesn't take long to sell that much semen on them.

 

[EAT BEEF]

I waited for all those pics to download on dial up and no pictures of the girls :cry2:

The fattest of my Ohlde type cows don't produce as much as most of the more avg.ones. Maybe this cross will work for you. What will you breed these Ohlde x SAV cows to for replacements? I'm not trying to say your wrong as I have some of the same issues in that with Ohlde cattle I think a little goes a long way sometimes and now I want to balence it out and hold them where they are. I don't think SAV is the answer for me,but look forward to seeing how it works out.

 

[Jake]

I'm not sure the SAV cattle are the right answer but I am very biased against New Design, Precision, and in focus so I don't have many options. I've found some half ohlde half sav bulls that is what I'm looking for. Not sure what the next step will be as I have to buy 3 or 4 bulls this year before I can plan the next move.

 

[Brandonm22]

I don't know; but crossing SAV cattle with Ohlde cattle is just about as close to cross breeding as you can get and stay within the Angus breed. The first generation ought to impress, but I don't know that I would want to use a bull like that in a registered herd.......on Simmentals or Herefords maybe. I think you would be adding too much genetic variation. Of course I can't say that with any degree of certainty.

 

[Dylan Biggs]

I don't know; but crossing SAV cattle with Ohlde cattle is just about as close to cross breeding as you can get and stay within the Angus breed. The first generation ought to impress, but I don't know that I would want to use a bull like that in a registered herd.......on Simmentals or Herefords maybe. I think you would be adding too much genetic variation. Of course I can't say that with any degree of certainty.

Type wise very different cattle for sure, pedigree wise Ohlde is built almost entirely on Band, Rito and Emulous lines, and SAV is built virtualy entirely on Band and Emulous lines, so I am not sure it is really close to cross breeding at all. Even up close in the pedigrees of SAV it is basicaly Traveler Scotchcap and Ohlde is basicaly Traveler but he used a bit of Scotchcap also, If you want Angus bloodlines that aren`t Band, Emulous or Rito you are going to have to look around quite a bit.

 

[Brandonm22]

The difference in phenotype selection over ten generations is going to mean an increase in genetic diversity.......more so than if you were crossing cattle seperated by 50 generations under parallel phenotypic selection. It is certainly not a crossbreed; BUT I think it definitely qualifies as an outcross at this point.

 

[Northern Rancher]

Not sure you can cross an apple on an orange and end up with a peach.

 

[3waycross]

Top to bottom one if not the best set of bulls I have ever seen. The bulls averaged $10,475. The top seller brought $283,000 and was worth every penny.

He may be the greatest that has ever lived (I kind of doubt it though); but if you clear $10 a straw that is still 28,300 straws of semen you have to market just to be back at even (and I don't think any of the big four AI companies clear $10 a straw after all expenses).

If I read the info coprrectly Mytty in Focus had approx 19,000 progeny on the ground, and he is 10 yrs old. This bull would have to exceed that by 50% just to break even at $10 a straw profit. Of course there is also the direct sales of offspring that generate a lot of money but this is assuming that he proves to be as popular as Mytty in focus and odds are (to me anyway) this ain't gonna happen.

 

[novaman]

The bulls averaged $10,475.

I just can't understand how anybody can afford to spend that kind of money on a bull. I'm sure a lot of the buyers are probably in the seedstock business but that is a lot of dough.

 

[lakading]

Top to bottom one if not the best set of bulls I have ever seen. The bulls averaged $10,475. The top seller brought $283,000 and was worth every penny.

He may be the greatest that has ever lived (I kind of doubt it though); but if you clear $10 a straw that is still 28,300 straws of semen you have to market just to be back at even (and I don't think any of the big four AI companies clear $10 a straw after all expenses).

If I read the info coprrectly Mytty in Focus had approx 19,000 progeny on the ground, and he is 10 yrs old. This bull would have to exceed that by 50% just to break even at $10 a straw profit. Of course there is also the direct sales of offspring that generate a lot of money but this is assuming that he proves to be as popular as Mytty in focus and odds are (to me anyway) this ain't gonna happen.

S A V Final Answer sold over 30,000 units of semen in either 2009 or 2010 (maybe both). Not bad for a $15,000 bull.

Anyway, that 19,000 number on In Focus is probably the registered progeny, isn't it? He was used extremely hard (and probably still is) in a lot of commercial herds as well.

And don't forget about the high priced A.I. certificates for the registered calves. Most are at least $25 to $30, and the cost is only $10. So even on a timed A.I. program with a 50% stick rate and assuming that only half of those are worth registering, you still sell certificates on 25% of the semen units sold to registered breeders. And you're likely clearing at least $15 to $20 per certificate. Sell 2,000 units of semen to registered breeders and that would equate to 500 certificates at a profit of $15 each. That's $7,500 for each year that you sell that much to registered breeders.

And like you said...direct progeny sales could add up as well. It all depends on if you have a product the market wants and your ability to effectively market that product.

Anyway, at $283,000 I'm more than happy to let someone else make that investment. I can use the bull all I want for probably $50 (semen and certificate) a pop. Surely I can produce a son worthy of using. Even if it takes 100 straws, that's $5,000. Saves me $278,000 and helps the people who took the lion's share of the risk pay for their investment. Of course, that all assumes that the $283,000 bull is one that I'm interested in using in the first place.

 

[robert]

last I saw MIF registered over 12000 progeny in one year ('09) the 19k is probably daughters in production with AHIR data.

 

[Brandonm22]

If I read the info correctly Mytty in Focus had approx 19,000 progeny on the ground, and he is 10 yrs old. This bull would have to exceed that by 50% just to break even at $10 a straw profit. Of course there is also the direct sales of offspring that generate a lot of money but this is assuming that he proves to be as popular as Mytty in focus and odds are (to me anyway) this ain't gonna happen.

In Focus has 18,945 ultrasound progeny records plus 103 actual carcass measurement reported in to the Angus Assn.....that is the 19,000 number. Somebody somewhere (I will remember who next week) told me Angus has 40,000 individual progeny records turned in. Add in the commercial calves, the Balancers, the SimAngus, the Limflex, the Maintainers, pregnancies that did not take, two straws sold per calf, and semen sitting in people's tanks etc and MIF probably has surpassed $1 million in gross semen sales. I am sure somebody at ABS knows the exact number.

 

[Dusty]

ok, I will ask you first, when will you start your purebred herd with that $280+ bull as your herdsire? Heck buy an average $10,400 bull and 10 head of heifers to breed him to, and see if if you can remarket them at a year for $2200 average.. Hinkle and Jones bought 25 cows last year from KSU all bred to Networth 4200 and sold their top bulls for $1800 last week at the Iowa Beef Expo, those calves were all raised 5 to 6 miles east of Linn, ks

2nd, kelly had the a great start, his dad gets out and kelly only buys the top end.. and has the pasteur to run as many recipts and he wants... then he buys 5175 for I believe 6K and now he is a carrier! then he buys 004 for $19k (i will check that back, but i think that may be high) from Trowbridge and the rest is history....

3rd, Cattle raised in his conditions, mid August when JAKE and I had cattle out in 100 degree heat for 14 days straight and 90+ for 47 days the Genex tour visited SAV and temps were 76-84 for the days there were there in August... Also little to no flies compared to our Midwest (kansas, Iowa, Missouri, Nebraska) area. Had 4 visitors from that tour come to Kansas the following weekend and by noon they wanted to retire to the hotels for relief... Our Cattle here don't get Air Conditioning.. and they all had questions about flies and last year was not a bad year for flies..

4th, Your comparing two different operations in Ohlde to SAV. if your going to compare Ohlde Genetics to SAV you have to use DUFF's performance numbers to SAV. Tim Ohlde has his program, little interference and he is the master at selling 1000 -1200 lbs yearling bulls, and he has a market for it... but then Tim don't have the Semen issues we have all herd about from SAV like the Mandan Bull and others (for reference check out other forums) DUFF's feeding program is more like SAV program and weights are closer compared two

difference I see is the size of the mature cow... I know I like to feed those 1100-1200 cows, but kelly's cows just push that 1400+ range .... ( I only have 5 or so out of 175 head that are 1200, the rest 1400+ but they are 80% Charolais.. ) Also look at the Mature Frame score of the two programs... OCC is the 5 -5.5 and 75% of the SAV herd pushed the 6-6.5 and higher... Providence, 004, Networth are all 6.5 plus frame bulls just like C&C7 & Upward... As a breed Angus is trying to do everything, but Mature Cows don't need a heifer bull like MIF...

Added frame, added pounds, added feed, with all those additions when does the pounds pay for the Pasteur, SAV Purchase Price, and Pounds of Feed .... is the SAV program more efficient... NO

Kelly has one of the Top Marketing and Performance Programs in the Industry.. Just Like GAR had four to five years ago... I would of loved to see a students perspective of the GAR bull sale before the out break... Remember GAR had an average 1500 more then SAV... Without the Defect where would they be...

What difference has anyone else seen between these large programs and how they change the industry ...

 

[husker1]

Opened up a an old post here and I don't get on this board often...but wanted to comment.

We purchased Pioneer's granddam last fall from Kelly. She is a phenotypic specimen. Sound, stout, soft-made, powerful and a perfect disposition. She's 10 and looks like she'll have the udder of a 5 year old. (will be calving in April). We were able to afford her since she's a fawn calf carrier. (we'll have to do some genetic testing on each calf...but the clean ones should be ultra-marketable)

If Pioneer's follows in 1082's footsteps, he'll be the deal!

 

[sizmic]

If you can get semen on him.

Sizmic

 

[ledoux79]

I have some Pioneer calves on the ground this spring, a couple of them come big - had to put a zipper in one mama just to get him out - but they sure can grow. At 2 months old they are up at the feed bunk next to their mamas eating...eating....eating.

I have to say I like the growth but I don't see him being the next GREATEST thing. A good bull, you bet, but breed him on your larger pelvis cows.