CowboyRam
Well-known member
I got my JN production sale catalog the other day, but I just don't understand this EPD thing.
Bull Sale catalog
- Thread starter CowboyRam
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seems hard to believe 679 lbs is top 10% for weaning weight, and how do they know he's top 3% YW when they don't have an actual weight?
I don't know much about EPD's either. I agree with Gcreek, give me birthdate, birth weight, ww and yw. I'd also like to go have a look at the dam and his contemporaries.
I don't know much about EPD's either. I agree with Gcreek, give me birthdate, birth weight, ww and yw. I'd also like to go have a look at the dam and his contemporaries.
What Breed of cattle is that?
One thing I learned going to Registered sales was to always go to the Association site of the cattle and look up their registration number. Often they will change the number to make the animal look better. Like jack up the scrotal marks and lower the birthweight. Then they will leave out a lot of the EPDs that are real important to you and the just don't give youth information at all. Then you can correct the numbers if they are different in your sale book.
Black Hereford, I found it.
One thing I learned going to Registered sales was to always go to the Association site of the cattle and look up their registration number. Often they will change the number to make the animal look better. Like jack up the scrotal marks and lower the birthweight. Then they will leave out a lot of the EPDs that are real important to you and the just don't give youth information at all. Then you can correct the numbers if they are different in your sale book.
Black Hereford, I found it.
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CowboyRam
Well-known member
This is why a posted this. I just don't understand those numbers, and catalog just gives definitions. I might as well look up the exhaust pipe for all the good it will do me.
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CowboyRam
Well-known member
Black Hereford. A ranch near Leavenworth Kansas.
kenny thomas
Well-known member
The problem i have with breed EPD's is unless you are familiar with that breeds average EPD's it doesnt mean much.
Top 5% sounds very good but the number of animals its comparing is very small less say compared to Angus.
But seems to be good within the breed probably.
Top 5% sounds very good but the number of animals its comparing is very small less say compared to Angus.
But seems to be good within the breed probably.
Cowboy Ram, are you saying that the definitions sound nutty to you? Wait, I came back because you said the numbers don't make sense. I wish it were Angus as I could drive everyone off line talking about that. Let me look at that site again and see if I can make heads or tails. I did see that his Birthweight was 86 I think, but I noticed that the sire was the same and they posted that often on many of the bull calves. It made me wonder if that was the highest Birthweight that there were going to list-PERIOD, because none went over that. Like if it weighed 90, just write 86 anyway.
GoWyo
Well-known member
An animal's actual weaning weight may not be reflective of its EPD for weaning weight because of environmental factors between birth and weaning. A calf raised in a drought year may not grow to its potential. A hot rod genetic masterpiece will have trouble weaning off at 750 lbs on desert range. The animal's contemporary group ratio adds another piece to the puzzle.
This is what I found for their averages over the last few years, but it doesn't meet up with the numbers on calving ease. No, they switched that to the American Hereford numbers, totally different.
Here is what I see because it looks like after seeing the Hereford numbers they are leaning with Angus sort of numbers and they do not have averages. Why a breed does not have averages so you can compare, I will never know. They do that with the Piedmontese too, and I do not like that.
But his calving ease appears to be pretty good at 10.7 as his BW shows to be a 1.0. There are lower BW, but there are higher as well. He appears to be on the low scale there. The actual birthweight was 86 lbs. That is sort of on the upper side and I would not want it higher if you are breeding heifers, as I see a lot of 86's like they refuse to show his sire's BW going above that. I will check and see if I can look up his registration number for his real BW as if it goes higher than that, he needs to only breed older cows or 2nd calvers. He is Polled from what I can understand, so his calves will be polled as well. His calves will weigh more than the average calf at weaning, if he is in the top 10% . That is good to have a bull that is in the top 10% and higher, the better. YW??TBD?? Not sure there. I will say that his Marbling is in top 4% but it appears that his Ribeye is quite high as they tell it to be in the upper 15%. It says his measurement is a 72 compared to the others. Now I cannot tell you exactly what the measurements entail, but comparing him to the other Black Hereford bulls in this sale it sounds like his EPD's are worthy. Top 1% for his API. I would really like the fact he is polled. But this is a great tool and he passes, but what is his conformation. That is the deal breaker!!!
But his calving ease appears to be pretty good at 10.7 as his BW shows to be a 1.0. There are lower BW, but there are higher as well. He appears to be on the low scale there. The actual birthweight was 86 lbs. That is sort of on the upper side and I would not want it higher if you are breeding heifers, as I see a lot of 86's like they refuse to show his sire's BW going above that. I will check and see if I can look up his registration number for his real BW as if it goes higher than that, he needs to only breed older cows or 2nd calvers. He is Polled from what I can understand, so his calves will be polled as well. His calves will weigh more than the average calf at weaning, if he is in the top 10% . That is good to have a bull that is in the top 10% and higher, the better. YW??TBD?? Not sure there. I will say that his Marbling is in top 4% but it appears that his Ribeye is quite high as they tell it to be in the upper 15%. It says his measurement is a 72 compared to the others. Now I cannot tell you exactly what the measurements entail, but comparing him to the other Black Hereford bulls in this sale it sounds like his EPD's are worthy. Top 1% for his API. I would really like the fact he is polled. But this is a great tool and he passes, but what is his conformation. That is the deal breaker!!!
They won't let you search out registration numbers on their site.
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CowboyRam
Well-known member
That was just one I took a picture out of the catalog. The first thing I did was go through the catalog and circled all the bulls that were homozygous black and polled. A lot the bulls will not be 18 months by the time I turn the bulls in with the cows; most of them will be 14 or 15 months by June. There are three or four that will be two years old by the time I turn out. I'm thinking the older bulls would work out better for the country I summer in.
We have sold 18 month old bulls before and they start breeding as soon as they get there. They are tall enough and mature enough. We always ran big framed stock, so they were tall. I bet you can find something you like there.
The association website will give a lot of good information. It has searches for epd %, epd trends, the bull that as used as an example can be searched. It provides his and sire and dam epd, weights, contemporary group numbers and weights. It is a good website only took a couple minutes to learn how to navigate through it
wbvs58
Well-known member
It is easier for people to interpret the numbers if they include the ranking %age of each EPD under that figure rather than brag about it in the comments for the higher ranked figures only.
Ken
Ken
cattleman99
Well-known member
Might be a Canadian thing I don't know but if you don't include a picture of the bull above or beside the pedigree so I can see what I'm looking at your catalog goes straight to the burning barrel.
the last thing I look at after picture, video, bw, ww, yw and his scrotal measurement is epd.
Bought a bull 5-6 years back I'm still using. Bottom 10-20 per cent in breed for ww and yw his epd said. I called BS.
He was 1505 lbs on sale day at just a few days over 14 months. Needless to say every year his calves weigh off the heaviest of my bulls consistently as a group.
104 bw but he calves easy too. It's all in the length.
the last thing I look at after picture, video, bw, ww, yw and his scrotal measurement is epd.
Bought a bull 5-6 years back I'm still using. Bottom 10-20 per cent in breed for ww and yw his epd said. I called BS.
He was 1505 lbs on sale day at just a few days over 14 months. Needless to say every year his calves weigh off the heaviest of my bulls consistently as a group.
104 bw but he calves easy too. It's all in the length.
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CowboyRam
Well-known member
I'm going to wait until they get picture posted on their website; they are supposed to be coming. Just going to pick old school like dad did way back when, by looks.
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