Protein Tubs

[norriscathy]

This is really nuts! People have been feeding 2-n-1 and 4-n-1, etc for hundreds of years in every state we've been in from Florida, to Georgia, to Arkansas, to Louisiana, to Texas. Can't believe no one seems to have heard of it. Certainly nothing new! Check with your local feed store or mill. NO; cows do not need 1# of salt per day, salt is a limiter only, it does not hurt them and it allows you to put out feed only once or twice a week. I don't know of anyboby that doesn't feed this stuff. Piligrims and Purina both tried to substitute fish meal for salt as a limiter and didn't work; just smelled bad and the cows got use to it after a few weeks.

 

[cfpinz]

If a cow ate 1 lb of salt in a day, I bet she'd drink somewhere around a 100 gallons of water or so. At 8 lbs/gal, that would be an average daily gain of 801 lbs. I gotta get me some of them cows! :shock: :shock: :shock:

 

[rk]

No! Salt is just a limiter! Some people feed 2 &1 which means 2 parts cottonseed meal to 1 part salt. The cows will eat 3# per day (1 # salt, 2 # cottonseed meal). No need to hand feed; just put out 21# per cow once a week. 2 & 1 is 28% protein and they will be getting a little over 1/2 of P per day. Just adjust the salt to let them get the amount of P you want. They WILL NOT eat all 21 #'s at one time; they will only eat 3 or so pounds per day.

I am still confused. I never was very good in math but If the mix is 2 pounds cotton seed and one pound salt and I put out 21 pounds per week per cow isnt that the same as one pound of salt per cow per day?

I believe what nc is saying is that the rule of thumb is that a cow is able to consume about a pound of salt per day. If you free choice a supplement that is 1/3 salt, they will consume 3 total pounds per day of the mixture. They receive their 1 lb/day of salt when they consume the 3-1 salt mixture. This is how they are self-limited on the free-choice mixture.

 

[norriscathy]

If a cow ate 1 lb of salt in a day, I bet she'd drink somewhere around a 100 gallons of water or so. At 8 lbs/gal, that would be an average daily gain of 801 lbs. I gotta get me some of them cows! :shock: :shock: :shock:

There is NO increase in water consumption! Try it before you knock it.

 

[denoginnizer]

This is really nuts! People have been feeding 2-n-1 and 4-n-1, etc for hundreds of years in every state we've been in from Florida, to Georgia, to Arkansas, to Louisiana, to Texas. Can't believe no one seems to have heard of it. Certainly nothing new! Check with your local feed store or mill. NO; cows do not need 1# of salt per day, salt is a limiter only, it does not hurt them and it allows you to put out feed only once or twice a week. I don't know of anyboby that doesn't feed this stuff. Piligrims and Purina both tried to substitute fish meal for salt as a limiter and didn't work; just smelled bad and the cows got use to it after a few weeks.

I understand that the salt is only used to limit the consumption. I was merely asking if one pound of salt per day might have some negative effect on cattle health. I am new to this and I sometimes question things, especially when someone says thats just the way it has always been done.
Also, the cheapest feed might not always be the best in my opinion.

 

[norriscathy]

This is really nuts! People have been feeding 2-n-1 and 4-n-1, etc for hundreds of years in every state we've been in from Florida, to Georgia, to Arkansas, to Louisiana, to Texas. Can't believe no one seems to have heard of it. Certainly nothing new! Check with your local feed store or mill. NO; cows do not need 1# of salt per day, salt is a limiter only, it does not hurt them and it allows you to put out feed only once or twice a week. I don't know of anyboby that doesn't feed this stuff. Piligrims and Purina both tried to substitute fish meal for salt as a limiter and didn't work; just smelled bad and the cows got use to it after a few weeks.

I understand that the salt is only used to limit the consumption. I was merely asking if one pound of salt per day might have some negative effect on cattle health. I am new to this and I sometimes question things, especially when someone says thats just the way it has always been done.
Also, the cheapest feed might not always be the best in my opinion.

No, this feed it not cheap. It is an excellent source of protein at 1/4 the cost of tubs. Tubs are just outrageously high. I even went to a trade show and told the "tub people" that if they convinced me that their tubs were worth the price I'd buy a couple of semi-loads a year. I really like the convenience of just putting out a few tubs every couple of weeks. At the end of our discussion they agreed they couldn't compete with a good range meal. I didn't mean to come on so strong to you if you're just getting into this; its that I just can't believe so many "cattle people" have never heard of this. Read the labels; there is no way any tub can even come close to comparing with a good cottonseed meal and salt mix. You want cottonseed MEAL not whole seeds. The salt does no harm. Check with your vet and feed stores.

 

[rk]

This is really nuts! People have been feeding 2-n-1 and 4-n-1, etc for hundreds of years in every state we've been in from Florida, to Georgia, to Arkansas, to Louisiana, to Texas. Can't believe no one seems to have heard of it. Certainly nothing new! Check with your local feed store or mill. NO; cows do not need 1# of salt per day, salt is a limiter only, it does not hurt them and it allows you to put out feed only once or twice a week. I don't know of anyboby that doesn't feed this stuff. Piligrims and Purina both tried to substitute fish meal for salt as a limiter and didn't work; just smelled bad and the cows got use to it after a few weeks.

I understand that the salt is only used to limit the consumption. I was merely asking if one pound of salt per day might have some negative effect on cattle health. I am new to this and I sometimes question things, especially when someone says thats just the way it has always been done.
Also, the cheapest feed might not always be the best in my opinion.

?

 

[rk]

This is really nuts! People have been feeding 2-n-1 and 4-n-1, etc for hundreds of years in every state we've been in from Florida, to Georgia, to Arkansas, to Louisiana, to Texas. Can't believe no one seems to have heard of it. Certainly nothing new! Check with your local feed store or mill. NO; cows do not need 1# of salt per day, salt is a limiter only, it does not hurt them and it allows you to put out feed only once or twice a week. I don't know of anyboby that doesn't feed this stuff. Piligrims and Purina both tried to substitute fish meal for salt as a limiter and didn't work; just smelled bad and the cows got use to it after a few weeks.

I understand that the salt is only used to limit the consumption. I was merely asking if one pound of salt per day might have some negative effect on cattle health. I am new to this and I sometimes question things, especially when someone says thats just the way it has always been done.
Also, the cheapest feed might not always be the best in my opinion.

?

Been trying to reply to this...maybe it'll work this time. NC is right....a cow will consume about a pound of salt if adeguate forage is available. I've never seen this amount salt intake cause a problem....thousands of tons of salt intake-controlled feeds used each year in TX.

 

[denoginnizer]

norris cathy , what kind of mineral do you use in addition to your mix?

 

[norriscathy]

norris cathy , what kind of mineral do you use in addition to your mix?

I was using a Moorman high phos but it got a little pricy. Switched to a Land o Lakes 12% phos mineral just this week.

 

[Texas PaPaw]

No! Salt is just a limiter! Some people feed 2 &1 which means 2 parts cottonseed meal to 1 part salt. The cows will eat 3# per day (1 # salt, 2 # cottonseed meal). No need to hand feed; just put out 21# per cow once a week. 2 & 1 is 28% protein and they will be getting a little over 1/2 of P per day. Just adjust the salt to let them get the amount of P you want. They WILL NOT eat all 21 #'s at one time; they will only eat 3 or so pounds per day.

I agree with NC. IMO-salt limited cottonseed meal is the most cost effective protein supplement that can be self-fed. Can remember folks doing this 40+ yrs ago. Don't make this too complicated. It's really simple, just mix 50lb bag of salt with the appropriate amount of CSM in a tub. If you want 2lb CSM/day mix 2:1, 3lb/day mix 3:1. If you want to add more energy, include some cracked corn also. Adjust salt % to regulate consumption. Rule of thumb is cows will eat no more than 1lb of salt/day plus whatever is mixed with that lb of salt. Put out enough for 1-2 weeks or more if you wish.

Another more cost effective option is to hand feed 1/2 of a weeks protein supplement, 2 times weekly. Have fed 10 lb/hd of csm cubes twice weekly, also have fed 15lb/hd of 20% cubes twice weekly. Works very well. Cows will eat most of the cubes the first day & the rest on the next day. Have read where adequate blood urea (protein) levels have been maintained for 7 days from one feeding of a weeks worth of supplement. Wouldn't reccomend this for feeds that had much grain, could have some acidosis.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Regards


Brock

 

[norriscathy]

No! Salt is just a limiter! Some people feed 2 &1 which means 2 parts cottonseed meal to 1 part salt. The cows will eat 3# per day (1 # salt, 2 # cottonseed meal). No need to hand feed; just put out 21# per cow once a week. 2 & 1 is 28% protein and they will be getting a little over 1/2 of P per day. Just adjust the salt to let them get the amount of P you want. They WILL NOT eat all 21 #'s at one time; they will only eat 3 or so pounds per day.

I agree with NC. IMO-salt limited cottonseed meal is the most cost effective protein supplement that can be self-fed. Can remember folks doing this 40+ yrs ago. Don't make this too complicated. It's really simple, just mix 50lb bag of salt with the appropriate amount of CSM in a tub. If you want 2lb CSM/day mix 2:1, 3lb/day mix 3:1. If you want to add more energy, include some cracked corn also. Adjust salt % to regulate consumption. Rule of thumb is cows will eat no more than 1lb of salt/day plus whatever is mixed with that lb of salt. Put out enough for 1-2 weeks or more if you wish.

Another more cost effective option is to hand feed 1/2 of a weeks protein supplement, 2 times weekly. Have fed 10 lb/hd of csm cubes twice weekly, also have fed 15lb/hd of 20% cubes twice weekly. Works very well. Cows will eat most of the cubes the first day & the rest on the next day. Have read where adequate blood urea (protein) levels have been maintained for 7 days from one feeding of a weeks worth of supplement. Wouldn't reccomend this for feeds that had much grain, could have some acidosis.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Regards


Brock

Bless you sir! A sane voice at last! Thought I was crying in the wilderness on this one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Bama]

We have done this also, a bunch of year ago. We had a self feeder and used salt as the limiter. Back then we also mixed in chicken litter. It does cost more but saves time. I now feed daily and keep free choice mineral out. No tubs. I'm just to big of a tight wad. Tubs do have their place in the feeding. If someomne can't for whatever reason feed on a regular basis either tubs or salt limited feed is the way to go.

 

[Stocker Steve]

There have been alot of studies done on salt limited feeding. Nothing new there. The optimizers usually point out you need to increase the salt percent over time if you want to fine tune intake.
There are also a lot of studies done with protein supplementation every second or third day. Works with protein due to the "urea cycle" but is not recommended with starch.

P.S. I quite buying tubs after calculating the cost per lb of protein. Bovatec containing tubs may pencil out in remote pastures. Crystalex has an online "calculator" for this.

 

[Tod Dague]

http://pods.dasnr.okstate.edu/docushare ... 008web.pdf

http://www.saltinstitute.org/publicatio ... tm-11.html

 

[Stocker Steve]

http://pods.dasnr.okstate.edu/docushare/dsweb/Get/Document-1943/F-3008web.pdf

http://www.saltinstitute.org/publicatio ... tm-11.html

Outstanding web sites!!! My question is how to keep the cost of supplement feeders down when you are rotating through pastures that are not in a perfect wagon wheel layout. New wood "steer stuffers" on skids run $1,200 to $1,700 each. Putting a couple of them in each pasture is spendy. Dragging them enough to get through a gate gets you down to every other pasture...

Any suggestions?

 

[Tod Dague]

http://pods.dasnr.okstate.edu/docushare/dsweb/Get/Document-1943/F-3008web.pdf

http://www.saltinstitute.org/publicatio ... tm-11.html

Outstanding web sites!!! My question is how to keep the cost of supplement feeders down when you are rotating through pastures that are not in a perfect wagon wheel layout. New wood "steer stuffers" on skids run $1,200 to $1,700 each. Putting a couple of them in each pasture is spendy. Dragging them enough to get through a gate gets you down to every other pasture...

Any suggestions?

How often are you rotating and how many are you rotating.

The best I could do is something like this. http://cgi.ebay.com/Apache-Self-and-Cre ... dZViewItem. But you would have to line it with something like rhino liner or it would rot pretty quickly. If you are rotating every three days or so why not supply them with days worth supplement when you rotate. That way you are not spending money on salt that has little value.

 

[Texas PaPaw]

http://pods.dasnr.okstate.edu/docushare/dsweb/Get/Document-1943/F-3008web.pdf

http://www.saltinstitute.org/publicatio ... tm-11.html

Outstanding web sites!!! My question is how to keep the cost of supplement feeders down when you are rotating through pastures that are not in a perfect wagon wheel layout. New wood "steer stuffers" on skids run $1,200 to $1,700 each. Putting a couple of them in each pasture is spendy. Dragging them enough to get through a gate gets you down to every other pasture...

Any suggestions?

Steve

I rotate thru 22 paddocks, which are served by 4 water points. by putting the feeder at the water point, it only has to be moved every 5-7 days. Also my feeders are built of wood and are on wheels. Check out this site: http://www.easyopenfeeders.com/

Due to the cost of salt, I have changed to feeding protein by hand 2-3 times weekly. Large (5/8") cubes can be fed on the ground with little waste. Currently hand feeding a blend of corn gluten & soy hull pellets as they are more cost effective. Am using cheap troughs I made from plastic barrels. Feed mineral with Bovatec.

Hope this is helpful & sorry for hijacking this thread.

Regards

Brock

 

[Beefy]

you people are all rich.

 

[aplusmnt]

you people are all rich.

That is what I was thinking Seems like Quality Hay and Quality mineral would work most of the time. We give a little extra to the Heifers that just calved. But everyone else, hay and mineral with an occasional scoop to just let them know what a honk and holler means.