Protein Tubs

Help Support CattleToday:

denoginnizer":2aph5pa1 said:
norriscathy":2aph5pa1 said:
This is really nuts! People have been feeding 2-n-1 and 4-n-1, etc for hundreds of years in every state we've been in from Florida, to Georgia, to Arkansas, to Louisiana, to Texas. Can't believe no one seems to have heard of it. Certainly nothing new! Check with your local feed store or mill. NO; cows do not need 1# of salt per day, salt is a limiter only, it does not hurt them and it allows you to put out feed only once or twice a week. I don't know of anyboby that doesn't feed this stuff. Piligrims and Purina both tried to substitute fish meal for salt as a limiter and didn't work; just smelled bad and the cows got use to it after a few weeks.
I understand that the salt is only used to limit the consumption. I was merely asking if one pound of salt per day might have some negative effect on cattle health. I am new to this and I sometimes question things, especially when someone says thats just the way it has always been done.
Also, the cheapest feed might not always be the best in my opinion.

High blood pressure and swolen ankles! At least that is what salt does to me. I am not sure I can afford blood pressure medicine for them :D
 
Hi everyone: I thought I would jump in on this discussion and offer my 2 cents worth. I think I tryed about everything over the years when I first started feeding I mixed each individual vitamin and trace mineral to make my own supplement, I switched to loose minerals, than to pelleted supplements, tubs work the best for me. There are several good brands of tubs always check the micro nutrients and vitamins, poor quality brands leave out the expensive important stuff. Once you find something you trust stick with it. I've been using Crystalx tubs for at least 10 years and here is why.

We use tubs to save on daily labor and it allows each animal to eat according to their own requirements which changes daily depending on what kind of forage and feed they happened to consume that day. Tubs also are weather proof the ingredients don't blow away as with loose minerals, and tubs can be rained on without it affecting the availability of the vitamins and minerals for the animals. A cheap source of info is your research extention office.

Here's the regime I follow although you have to be a little flexible because everything is in constant change around you and you have to adapt. My cows always have several tubs in the pasture available to them year around. In the spring I start out with Crystalyx Hi Magnesium tubs for about a month or so before the first green grass this helps prevent toxicity problems with grass tetnany from cows eating green grass to quickly, I think that it is a 12% protien tub but I really don't care because protien isn't what I am trying to extract for them what I want is the high Magnesium and the balance of minerals. Than as the pastures turn completely green I introduce a Crystalyx mineralyx tub, again I don't care about the protien, at this time it's all about minerals because the protien is coming from the grass. Than toward fall as the grass starts to dry up and turn brown I put out Crystalyx BGF-30 tubs which is a 30% protien tub they need the increased protien. they stay on this all through winter until the cycle starts all over again in the spring with the high Mag tubs. I have to admitt that I do also put out Iodised salt blocks, Cobalt Blocks, Sulfur Blocks, and trace mineral blocks so they can choose a specific ingredient that may be lacking in their diet. I have to say I have cows that breed back quickly so my calving isn't dragged out for 2 months, calves are healthy, cows clean out good I never have retained afterbirth. Very little leg problems no pink eye problems, easy weaning, basicly happy cows.

I hope someone will benefit from this rather long reply.
 
From "Feeds and Feeding" Ninth Edition refering to self-feeding a mixure of protein supplement and salt. " The proportion of salt is adjusted so the cattle will eat the desired amount of protein supplement a day. It is essential in this method that the cattle have access to plenty of water,conveniently available,so that they can get rid of the excess salt in the urine. Otherwise, there may be injury or even death loss. Beef cows have consumed a suprising amount of salt (over 2 lbs. per head daily) for long periods without injury, if they were able to get plenty of water. In beginning to use this method, at first the cattle should be hand-fed a mixture of 1 part of salt to 5 or 6 lbs. of protein supplement. Then the proportion of salt should be increased until they will eat no more than the desired amount of protein supplement. "
 
norriscathy,

I am glad you posted this information. I have a question for you. I am very new to the cattle business and dont have allot of experience. I am tring to raise some heifer's. I bought them back last October. They weighed 550 lbs. I have been feeding them a 6lb ration of 12 to 14 % protein grain a day with all the hay and mineral they can eat. I am planning on graining them right up until they are in their last tri-mester. But i will be moving them to some different pasture that is about 13 miles from the house. So this method of putting a weeks worth of feed out at once would be an ideal method of feeding for me. So my question is this. How do i go about switching them over to this salt intake controled method of feeding ? And can you suggest a good feed mix ? And how many pounds a day should i feed them through the summer ?
 
I am curious were the lick tanks with liquid feed come into play in this self feeding approach? I have never used it and am not sure but was thinking I heard it is more like in the $200 per ton price range verses the $600 ton range on Tubs?
 
Stepper":12guv9s7 said:
norriscathy,

I am glad you posted this information. I have a question for you. I am very new to the cattle business and dont have allot of experience. I am tring to raise some heifer's. I bought them back last October. They weighed 550 lbs. I have been feeding them a 6lb ration of 12 to 14 % protein grain a day with all the hay and mineral they can eat. I am planning on graining them right up until they are in their last tri-mester. But i will be moving them to some different pasture that is about 13 miles from the house. So this method of putting a weeks worth of feed out at once would be an ideal method of feeding for me. So my question is this. How do i go about switching them over to this salt intake controled method of feeding ? And can you suggest a good feed mix ? And how many pounds a day should i feed them through the summer ?

I really don't give my replacement heifers anything but free choice salt and minerals when they have good pasture. In July or August when the pastures get dry and the growth of the grass slows down, I feed about 2#'s per day of a 4-n-1 salt mix. Young heifers will not eat a pound of salt per day so they're not going to eat the five pounds you'd expect. I don't know how many heifers you have or if you have a feed store near by that will custom blend 2 tons for you.My 4-n-1 "summer mix" per ton is 1,100 #'s cottonseed meal; 400#'s salt; 100#'s vegatable fat; 350 #'s ground corn; 50#'s high phos mineral; and a 1# "dairy vitamin "pack. This will give you a about a 24% protein mix. If you can't get a custom mix don't be to concerned. You can buy the product in the bag but it may be 2-n-1 or 3-n-1; just hand mix enough cottonseed meal to bring it up to 4-n-1. Although I much prefer CSM but soybean meal will work almost as well. The extra fat will provide 2#'s of nutrition for each pound of fat; but more importantly it will keep the mixture from being so dry it blows away in the wind.

Hope this helps.
 
norriscathy":330kmjic said:
rk":330kmjic said:
NC,

2 lbs of nutrition for each pound of fat????

Yes! The TDN (total digestable nutrients) of grass hay is 46%; yellow corn 81%; Cottonseed meal 69%; and fats, oils & tallow 195%.

It's relative....It's usually expressed as relative to corn. 2.2-2.5% the energy value of corn. 1.95/81=2.4.
 
aplusmnt":lopriqdp said:
I am curious were the lick tanks with liquid feed come into play in this self feeding approach? I have never used it and am not sure but was thinking I heard it is more like in the $200 per ton price range verses the $600 ton range on Tubs?

Donald

It's been several years since I figured this little exercise. If memory serves me correctly, most of the liquid feeds are 40-60% moisture (water). If you convert the liquid feed to $/lb of dry matter they will probably be similar in price to the tubs.

Hope this sheds a little light on the situation.

Good luck & best regards

Brock
 
Texas PaPaw":3g81ir9l said:
aplusmnt":3g81ir9l said:
I am curious were the lick tanks with liquid feed come into play in this self feeding approach? I have never used it and am not sure but was thinking I heard it is more like in the $200 per ton price range verses the $600 ton range on Tubs?

Donald

It's been several years since I figured this little exercise. If memory serves me correctly, most of the liquid feeds are 40-60% moisture (water). If you convert the liquid feed to $/lb of dry matter they will probably be similar in price to the tubs.

Hope this sheds a little light on the situation.
Good luck & best regards

Brock

Most good liquid feeds are in the low 30's on moisture level. Also, tubs and liquid both are usually fed primarily for protein supplementation, rather than dry matter. Seems like it would be more meaningful to evaluate on the cost/protein unit. MHO
 
norriscathy":a3qzodoh said:
Stepper":a3qzodoh said:
norriscathy,

I am glad you posted this information. I have a question for you. I am very new to the cattle business and dont have allot of experience. I am tring to raise some heifer's. I bought them back last October. They weighed 550 lbs. I have been feeding them a 6lb ration of 12 to 14 % protein grain a day with all the hay and mineral they can eat. I am planning on graining them right up until they are in their last tri-mester. But i will be moving them to some different pasture that is about 13 miles from the house. So this method of putting a weeks worth of feed out at once would be an ideal method of feeding for me. So my question is this. How do i go about switching them over to this salt intake controled method of feeding ? And can you suggest a good feed mix ? And how many pounds a day should i feed them through the summer ?

I really don't give my replacement heifers anything but free choice salt and minerals when they have good pasture. In July or August when the pastures get dry and the growth of the grass slows down, I feed about 2#'s per day of a 4-n-1 salt mix. Young heifers will not eat a pound of salt per day so they're not going to eat the five pounds you'd expect. I don't know how many heifers you have or if you have a feed store near by that will custom blend 2 tons for you.My 4-n-1 "summer mix" per ton is 1,100 #'s cottonseed meal; 400#'s salt; 100#'s vegatable fat; 350 #'s ground corn; 50#'s high phos mineral; and a 1# "dairy vitamin "pack. This will give you a about a 24% protein mix. If you can't get a custom mix don't be to concerned. You can buy the product in the bag but it may be 2-n-1 or 3-n-1; just hand mix enough cottonseed meal to bring it up to 4-n-1. Although I much prefer CSM but soybean meal will work almost as well. The extra fat will provide 2#'s of nutrition for each pound of fat; but more importantly it will keep the mixture from being so dry it blows away in the wind.

Hope this helps.

Not sure if this poster is still around. Id like to hear more about a mix like this. They dont do 3n1 or 4n1 up this way. I called today to see what it may cost ( may have to sub soybean meal) Anyone with experience with anything close I d like to hear more. Howd cows do? protien/ energy content? Id use it as a supp in fall and winter. Currently using tubs, trying do cut costs but not corners. Thanks
 
norriscathy":2ns0gwau said:
GMN":2ns0gwau said:
We use them, and really like them, great for heifers, and can cut back on grain when feeding these, one is good for about 20 head, and they last for almost a month. I buy mine from a local MFA, pay $65.

GMN

I assume you're purchasing a 200# tubb for $65; that is $650 per ton! Holy Moly! If your tub is 20% all natual and 20 cows eat 200# per month that means each cow is only getting 10 pounds per month or 3/10 of a pound per day. At 20% P you are only giving your cows .0667 pounds of P supplement per day! What a waste. You might as well pour syrup on that concrete block. Read the label on the tub and get out your pencil. You'll never buy another tub again! My cows get 3# per day of 3-n-1 cottonseed salt mix which is about 32% P. I am giving the a FULL pound of P as a supplement and you're only providing 6 one hundredths of one pound! Mine cost $200 per ton and yours $650. Tubs are nothing but a COMPLETE waste of money!

BOOM! Shakka Lakka!
 
m&kCattle":3vplwmyx said:
Not sure if this poster is still around. Id like to hear more about a mix like this. They dont do 3n1 or 4n1 up this way. I called today to see what it may cost ( may have to sub soybean meal) Anyone with experience with anything close I d like to hear more. Howd cows do? protien/ energy content? Id use it as a supp in fall and winter. Currently using tubs, trying do cut costs but not corners. Thanks
A lot of old timers still put out these mixes. They simply buy cottonseed meal and mix it with salt. Some will mix 3 bags of meal to one bag of salt. Others will mix it 50:50....Most feed companies will also have mixes similar. Down this way they're pretty much always referred to as "Range Meal". The salt will limit intake but forget his bathtub mixture for mineral supplementation. Buy a bag of good mineral and make it available.
 

Latest posts

Top