Mineral tubs

[mwj]

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[Warren Allison]

Do you think everywhere has nutritional deficiencies? We just aren't aware because what we see we consider normal?

How deep does this rabbit hole go? What other symptoms could be associated with mineral supplement solutions?

I'm inclined to believe animals have evolved in the world in ways that they adjust... if not just tolerant of most things in the environment. But then, I've also never had what I thought were problems. Cows breed and drop calves, calves grow fine, and in areas I'm familiar with others have the same. Really, the only reason I had salt blocks at all was because I did see some grass tetany in Arkansas and I had a vet long before that tell me magnesium blocks would prevent problems with that one thing.

I think you are missing the point of this thread. No matter what the deficiency is....like magnesium in your case...you can provide more of it a lot cheaper, by using loose minerals rather than blocks.

 

[gman4691]

Never know. There was some pretty junky hay being traded this year.

This is true...I bought some pretty low quality hay from a guy in Longview...won't do that again...looked like it was baled on the highway ROW...lots of weed stems and such

 

[Silver]

Nope. Nothing fairy tale or BS about it. Predators go after the easiest prey....the old, very young and sick or injured. They spend as little energy as they can, and try to limit their exposure to injury. Sorry, but that is how it was for 100.00s of thousands of years. God knew what he was doing when he created prey and predators. It insures a healthy herbivore population. Once man started domesticating live stock, and intruding on wilderness areas, often confining them in pastures, the livestock becomes the easier prey.

You've obviously never dealt with predation of you cow herd. Or seen an otherwise big healthy moose standing in the trees hamstrung with its nose missing slowly weakening while the wolves sit and wait patiently.
Anyone that thinks nature runs on some wonderful happy balance has never spent much time in nature. It's a world of painful swings of the pendulum and nothing balanced about it.

 

[Travlr]

I think you are missing the point of this thread. No matter what the deficiency is....like magnesium in your case...you can provide more of it a lot cheaper, by using loose minerals rather than blocks.

And not my experience...

Maybe if there are multiple deficiencies...

 

[Warren Allison]

And not my experience...

Maybe if there are multiple deficiencies...

Well, you don't have to have a lot of experience to see the price tags on salt blocks and loose mineral bags. And you can do what I suggested: Get a block of salt and give it a good lick, then pour a dish full of table salt and give that a good lick, to see which one delivers the most salt per lick.

 

[Warren Allison]

You've obviously never dealt with predation of you cow herd. Or seen an otherwise big healthy moose standing in the trees hamstrung with its nose missing slowly weakening while the wolves sit and wait patiently.
Anyone that thinks nature runs on some wonderful happy balance has never spent much time in nature. It's a world of painful swings of the pendulum and nothing balanced about it.

No, I have never run a cow herd in a wilderness or wildlife management area. Nature, unaffected by encroachment of man, has maintained perfect balance since mammals first appeared 100's of thousands of years before humans. It is very well known, and documented, that in years with heavy drought, or a kill off of prey animals due to disease, etc, when prey animal numbers are low wolves, lions, Cape Hunting dogs...most all pack animals... will have dramatically reduced birth rates. The same is true in reverse in years when there is an over abundance of game.

 

[Travlr]

Well, you don't have to have a lot of experience to see the price tags on salt blocks and loose mineral bags. And you can do what I suggested: Get a block of salt and give it a good lick, then pour a dish full of table salt and give that a good lick, to see which one delivers the most salt per lick.

I can't believe you think that is somehow a relevant comment. That's about as rookie a thing to say as I've ever heard.

 

[Mark Reynolds]

Wow, this thread took off. @tcolvin started talking about mineral but mentioned percentage, which implies protein. I'm not sure which they are focused on, or maybe both. What should be done is get a hay analysis on what you have on hand and determine the protein content of it. Most operations east of the Mississippi really don't have a concern or need to be concerned with protein as a protein percentage around 7% is all that is really needed. Most forages are well above that around 10-12. That being said, a few places in the SE do need to be monitored, and I see that @tcolvin is from GA. Protein tubs in the east are really only good for making the suppliers money and getting producers to spend on un-needed products. Minerals are a little different. Regionally there are large areas of well known deficiencies. Also, local areas often have mineral deficiencies that aren't well known, but your local extension agent should know of these. It's also not unheard of for an individual farm to have a deficiency that no-where else has, but is rare. Get a hay analysis on the hay you have available. Be sure you do an analysis for each separate cutting. Also, if you are grazing stockpiled forage, get an analysis on your forage monthly as the protein content will drop as the season progresses.

 

[gcreekrch]

No, I have never run a cow herd in a wilderness or wildlife management area. Nature, unaffected by encroachment of man, has maintained perfect balance since mammals first appeared 100's of thousands of years before humans. It is very well known, and documented, that in years with heavy drought, or a kill off of prey animals due to disease, etc, when prey animal numbers are low wolves, lions, Cape Hunting dogs...most all pack animals... will have dramatically reduced birth rates. The same is true in reverse in years when there is an over abundance of game.

In reality, the predators end up killing everything and then either migrate away or starve to death themselves. You've watched a little to much Disney Warren.
We are now at 522 cattle that did not return from range since 2003 spring. Not many of them just died of natural causes and they weren't all sick and weak. Wolves and bears are at an all time high.
Local caribou herd from 2600 individuals to 350 in the same time period. We once could see 40 moose in a day, now we don't see that many in 6 months. They weren't all sick and weak.

 

[Travlr]

In reality, the predators end up killing everything and then either migrate away or starve to death themselves. You've watched a little to much Disney Warren.
We are now at 522 cattle that did not return from range since 2003 spring. Not many of them just died of natural causes and they weren't all sick and weak. Wolves and bears are at an all time high.
Local caribou herd from 2600 individuals to 350 in the same time period. We once could see 40 moose in a day, now we don't see that many in 6 months. They weren't all sick and weak.

I really don't like moose declining like that. I know they are dangerous to hit on the roads but they are just such interesting, prehistoric critters.

 

[Silver]

No, I have never run a cow herd in a wilderness or wildlife management area. Nature, unaffected by encroachment of man, has maintained perfect balance since mammals first appeared 100's of thousands of years before humans. It is very well known, and documented, that in years with heavy drought, or a kill off of prey animals due to disease, etc, when prey animal numbers are low wolves, lions, Cape Hunting dogs...most all pack animals... will have dramatically reduced birth rates. The same is true in reverse in years when there is an over abundance of game.

Perfect balance??? When has nature ever been in perfect balance? That's a vegan tree huggers fairy tail. Nature has never been in balance and never will be. If you had ever spent any time in nature you would know how wild the swings are.

 

[GoWyo]

There is a phenomenon known as a "predator pit" where the predator population exceeds the capacity of the prey herd and then the prey herd basically stagnates because it cannot reproduce fast enough to get back to the more natural boom and bust cycles absent some adjustment to the predator population. https://www.researchgate.net/public...es_prey_to_predator_pits_and_local_extinction

 

[James.D]

I started my cows back in September on the 24% mineral tubs (200lb) . Last week my tractor supply didn't have the 24% so I got the 16% instead. Will these work for giving the mineral? I feed hay and about 2 times a week I give cotton seed and oats mixed in. I don't really know if I need the 16% or 24%. How would you know? What governs which to use?

From all the companies and nutritionist I have talked to recommend keeping free choice mineral out while feeding protein tubs. They do contain some minerals and vitamins, but not enough for daily needs.

 

[Travlr]

From all the companies and nutritionist I have talked to recommend keeping free choice mineral out while feeding protein tubs. They do contain some minerals and vitamins, but not enough for daily needs.

Where are you? So much of the discussion on these fora pertain to location. Weather, grasses, breeds, etc,. that it would help if you would go to your profile and put a location in. A state might be fine, but anything more specific is always better.

 

[Mark Reynolds]

Where are you? So much of the discussion on these fora pertain to location. Weather, grasses, breeds, etc,. that it would help if you would go to your profile and put a location in. A state might be fine, but anything more specific is always better.

@James.D, @Travlr is 100% on target about location. Most of us here know specifics for our region. There are a few of us that can discuss multiple regions. Those of us that can do that will give different responses depending on where you are at/from.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

@James.D. welcome to the board. Some if us get a little passion about subjects, but a lot can be learned.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Question was asked ...what minerals are lacking. Main ones are calcium and phosphorus. One of the most important IN MY AREA and a LOT of areas in US is Selinium.
Lack of SE causes lower conception, retained placental, long labors, slow calves, and white muscle disease in calves.
I had a beef specialist that used my herd to determine mineral needs in our area. He drew blood and we had custom minerals made for our area and added extra SE each year, until our herd finally had a NORMAL blood level of SE. We had to triple the recommended amount of SE.
We no longer have the ability to have custom made minerals, but we give every newborn a Multimin shot.
@Travhow long ago has it been since you had cattle? Areas have gotten more depleated for basic minerals than what they used to be. But, again, YOUR area at that time might not have had a major issue.

 

[gcreekrch]

Question was asked ...what minerals are lacking. Main ones are calcium and phosphorus. One of the most important IN MY AREA and a LOT of areas in US is Selinium.
Lack of SE causes lower conception, retained placental, long labors, slow calves, and white muscle disease in calves.
I had a beef specialist that used my herd to determine mineral needs in our area. He drew blood and we had custom minerals made for our area and added extra SE each year, until our herd finally had a NORMAL blood level of SE. We had to triple the recommended amount of SE.
We no longer have the ability to have custom made minerals, but we give every newborn a Multimin shot.
@Travhow long ago has it been since you had cattle? Areas have gotten more depleated for basic minerals than what they used to be. But, again, YOUR area at that time might not have had a major issue.

Interesting how areas differ, on average our hay contains 300% required calcium, 250% req phosphorus, selenium is close enough to only add 30ppm in mineral, molybdenum is really high here so copper is at near maximum level one can feed safely. The rest I don't recall offhand but what we are doing has made huge differences in health.

 

[StrojanHerefords]

Question was asked ...what minerals are lacking. Main ones are calcium and phosphorus. One of the most important IN MY AREA and a LOT of areas in US is Selinium.
Lack of SE causes lower conception, retained placental, long labors, slow calves, and white muscle disease in calves.
I had a beef specialist that used my herd to determine mineral needs in our area. He drew blood and we had custom minerals made for our area and added extra SE each year, until our herd finally had a NORMAL blood level of SE. We had to triple the recommended amount of SE.
We no longer have the ability to have custom made minerals, but we give every newborn a Multimin shot.
@Travhow long ago has it been since you had cattle? Areas have gotten more depleated for basic minerals than what they used to be. But, again, YOUR area at that time might not have had a major issue.

In most cases, if the cattle are deficient in a mineral that means that the plants aren't getting the minerals they need from the soil. Give the plants what they need and they will grow more better quality feed.
It is something that is not that easy to see but it makes a difference.