Protein/Mag Tubs VS Loose Minerals

[machslammer]

I run 16 large cows/bull and then some calves on fair pasture. I feed hay year round, so I usually keep out mineral/protein. So, my question is...
Would you keep out loose mineral that looks like this:
Calcium (Ca), min............................................ 13.00%
Calcium (Ca), max............................................ 15.00%
Phosphorus (P), min...........................................4.00%
Salt (NaCl), min............................................... 16.50%
Salt (NaCl), max............................................... 18.50%
Magnesium (Mg), min..................................... 10.00%
Potassium (K), min.............................................0.10%
Zinc (Zn), min........................................... 3,600 PPM
Manganese (Mn), min............................... 3,600 PPM
Copper (Cu), min...................................... 1,200 PPM
Cobalt (Co), min..............................................12 PPM
Iodine (I), min..................................................60 PPM
Selenium (Se), min..........................................27 PPM
Vitamin A, min..................................... 75,000 IU/LB
Vitamin D, min....................................... 7,500 IU/LB
Vitamin E, min..............................................75 IU/LB

Or feed protein/high mag tubs that look like this:
Crude Protein (min.)........................17.0 %
Crude Fat (min).............................5.0 %
Crude Fiber (max.).........................2.5 %
Calcium (Ca) (min.)........................2.0 %
Calcium (Ca) (max.).......................2.5 %
Phosphorus (P) (min.).....................1.5 %
Salt (NaCl)..................................None Added
Potassium (K) (min.)......................2.0 %
Magnesium (Mg) (min.)...................4.0 %
Copper (Cu) (min.)........................300 ppm
Zinc (Zn) (min.)..........................1000 ppm
Iodine (I) (min.)............................27.5 ppm
Selenium (Se) (min.).......................5 ppm
Vitamin A (min.)...........................80,000 IU/lb
Vitamin D3 (min.).........................10,000 IU/lb
Vitamin E (min.)................................50 IU/lb

The hay I feed is min protein and some of my cows really get pulled down when calves are on them. I also keep out calf feed 14% year round.
Some of my cows won't breed back until I pull calves, but gonna try to pull them for a few days after 45-60 days old to see if that will also kick the cows back into cycle. Thinking maybe a diff breeders mineral or something might help to. Any thoughts on which stuff I should keep out..Loose or tubs.? Tubs have protein, minerals dont, but loose has more stuff in them versus tubs. Loose is $18/50lb bag. Tub is $48 for 200 lb. And they waste more loose minerals. Suggestions?

 

[denvermartinfarms]

I can't see the numbers on your tub, but I mainly use tubs over loose mineral. What I have found is that the cheaper 50$ tubs only last a third as long as a 95$ crystalix. So if you go with tubs you might check on some different options that could save you some $.

 

[greybeard]

Hard to make a comparison when one is in % and the other is ppm.
Tub is low in salt tho, but loose salt is cheap enough.

 

[1982vett]

For me it's loose mineral and salt.....but then I run a totally different style operation.

 

[TexasBred]

Hard to make a comparison when one is in % and the other is ppm.
Tub is low in salt tho, but loose salt is cheap enough.

To convert % to ppm just move the decimal 4 places to the right 2% is 20,000 ppm and vice versa

 

[machslammer]

For me it's loose mineral and salt.....but then I run a totally different style operation.

What's your style?

 

[machslammer]

I can't see the numbers on your tub, but I mainly use tubs over loose mineral. What I have found is that the cheaper 50$ tubs only last a third as long as a 95$ crystalix. So if you go with tubs you might check on some different options that could save you some $.

Edited post.. That help you see it?

The $48 dollar CPC tubs I use are a 24% with 4% mag and 2 tubs will last me 2 months. So 1 a month.

The $18 dollar a bag loose mineral lasts me about a bag per week and half, but has no protein in it.

The co-op has tubs with 3.5% mag and 10% protein @ 58$ a tub. Sweetlix I think is their brand. Don't think I like them as well and more expensive..

 

[dryfork2]

Machslammer, southern states 2:1 mineral costs 18.70 bag. Label reads better in everything but magnesium. They also sell a hi-mag mix. I keep out year round in good mineral feeder little waste and cows seem to shape up in spring. Don't keep good records but probably costing 35 dollars per pair to do it year round. And breed back on time (hope not to jinx myself) you seem to have something going on if nursing mama not breeding back. Understand if a broken mouth cow or something of health nature but most cows should drop calf every 12 months or even11.5 months .for the most part

 

[dryfork2]

TB thanks for explanation on ppm vs %. Learn something everyday

 

[machslammer]

Machslammer, southern states 2:1 mineral costs 18.70 bag. Label reads better in everything but magnesium. They also sell a hi-mag mix. I keep out year round in good mineral feeder little waste and cows seem to shape up in spring. Don't keep good records but probably costing 35 dollars per pair to do it year round. And breed back on time (hope not to jinx myself) you seem to have something going on if nursing mama not breeding back. Understand if a broken mouth cow or something of health nature but most cows should drop calf every 12 months or even11.5 months .for the most part

Dryfork,
That's why I was wondering if I should switch from the tubs to the high mag/good loose mineral feed. Noticed in most of the "Breeders minerals" it has 100,000-300,000 Vitamin A and lots more of everything. The tubs I keep out are Protein with high mag but only has 4-6% of mag and only like 10-20,000 vit A units ect. Seems the tubs are easier, but not as much product in them as loose.. Do they really need more protein over what the hay and grass provide? I tried keeping out a tub and a little loose before, but they would not touch the loose till the tub was gone..
Had 5/10 cows calve in a yr. The other 5 are in good shape physically, but just waited to rebreed. . Also was changing bulls around throughout last year, getting one I liked. None are broken mouths that I had last year. . Bought an old cow this yr that had a calf and I'll make a little off her, but you can tell the old ones sure get pulled down by their calf.

 

[1982vett]

I run 16 large cows/bull and then some calves on fair pasture. I feed hay year round, so I usually keep out mineral/protein.


The hay I feed is min protein and some of my cows really get pulled down when calves are on them. I also keep out calf feed 14% year round.
Some of my cows won't breed back until I pull calves, but gonna try to pull them for a few days after 45-60 days old to see if that will also kick the cows back into cycle. Thinking maybe a diff breeders mineral or something might help to. Any thoughts on which stuff I should keep out..Loose or tubs.? Tubs have protein, minerals dont, but loose has more stuff in them versus tubs. Loose is $18/50lb bag. Tub is $48 for 200 lb. And they waste more loose minerals. Suggestions?

For me it's loose mineral and salt.....but then I run a totally different style operation.

What's your style?

I don't run a feedlot. My stocking rate is adjusted for the amount of forage I can economically grow.

 

[machslammer]

gotcha. I economically come out alright for a second income. However, it's more of an enjoyment to me than a full time job.

 

[dryfork2]

Could switching bulls be part of rebreeding troubles? A few years back had proven bull stick first 4 cows then lost interest (too hot?) . Picked up balancer bull cleaned up the rest. Got any neighbors that when you see their cattle you think I would like to have some of that going on? If so I'm sure they have a mineral program, ask them as mineral needs change with different ground and hay. If that don't help talk to local vet.

 

[TexasBred]

Mach the loose mineral you show above is really not that highly fortified except that it meets the mag. level to be called "Hi Mag". It should be much cheaper than other mineral. They tub is pretty typical as well. The price tells me it is not a cooked tub so consumption will be much higher than the cooked tubs which cost much more but usually are much higher quality and last longer. Neither is going to help a cow much that is being pulled down while nursing a calf.

 

[pappy6]

Not sure if this will help you or not but I am south of you in central Tennessee...I use the co-op reproduction loose mineral year round ...it is formulated for our area and most of my cows have calved this year in 11 months from last year. You can get hi-mag or IGR for fly control...the tip on neighbors is good also. Don't know if you have soil tested but that can affect the cow's mineral requirement too. Good luck.

 

[3MileRanch]

If your cows are having a problem breeding back before the calf is pulled and you are already using either of the mineral supplements that you listed you should look at adding more protien to their diet. What would you say their body condition score is? Also you could try to creep feed the calves so they wont put so much pressure on the momma.

 

[machslammer]

If your cows are having a problem breeding back before the calf is pulled and you are already using either of the mineral supplements that you listed you should look at adding more protien to their diet. What would you say their body condition score is? Also you could try to creep feed the calves so they wont put so much pressure on the momma.

Tubs I'm feeding have 25%protein plus hay plus grass.. Body scores probably around a five. Got an old cow probably a four with calf. Not been using loose mineral only the tubs. That was my thoughts on maybe changing to assist...?

 

[machslammer]

Not sure if this will help you or not but I am south of you in central Tennessee...I use the co-op reproduction loose mineral year round ...it is formulated for our area and most of my cows have calved this year in 11 months from last year. You can get hi-mag or IGR for fly control...the tip on neighbors is good also. Don't know if you have soil tested but that can affect the cow's mineral requirement too. Good luck.

Pappy,
What you paying for 50#? Soil tested last year and it required 30 30 60 this year. Plus we limed the crap out of it..

 

[3MileRanch]

If your cows are having a problem breeding back before the calf is pulled and you are already using either of the mineral supplements that you listed you should look at adding more protien to their diet. What would you say their body condition score is? Also you could try to creep feed the calves so they wont put so much pressure on the momma.

Tubs I'm feeding have 25%protein plus hay plus grass.. Body scores probably around a five. Got an old cow probably a four with calf. Not been using loose mineral only the tubs. That was my thoughts on maybe changing to assist...?

Five isnt to bad, they should be breeding back even with the calf on them. If what you are doing now isnt working, ie: tubs, then try something else. Even if you put the extra minerals out I wouldnt take away the tub. Five isnt bad, but it really means they are just barely getting enough. If you take away some of the protien they might drop down to fours and that could very easily cause problems.

 

[machslammer]

If your cows are having a problem breeding back before the calf is pulled and you are already using either of the mineral supplements that you listed you should look at adding more protien to their diet. What would you say their body condition score is? Also you could try to creep feed the calves so they wont put so much pressure on the momma.[/quote]

Already do this as well. . . MAybe... MY COWS ARE JUST RETARDS! lol