Minerals

[simme]

Yup, and that's exactly what "trace" means in this kind of context. In fact your following statement is exactly why "trace" is what it is.



Animals get almost all they need from their environment, and in deficient areas they are still getting "almost" enough.

So as you advise, do your own research. I've done mine. That's why I understand that a 1500 pound cow only needs nutrients measured in parts per million.

Explain why cows die of grass tetany.

 

[Ebenezer]

Yup, and that's exactly what "trace" means in this kind of context. In fact your following statement is exactly why "trace" is what it is.



Animals get almost all they need from their environment, and in deficient areas they are still getting "almost" enough.

So as you advise, do your own research. I've done mine. That's why I understand that a 1500 pound cow only needs nutrients measured in parts per million.

Hogwash. Get back to watching soap operas.

 

[Travlr]

Explain why cows die of grass tetany.

Because people don't put out a supplemental mineral block in an area or season that creates a deficiency.

I'm NOT saying that there is no need for supplemental nutrients, so let's not make it seem like I am. Now I have a question for you...

What DID I say?

 

[simme]

What DID I say?

I hope you know what you said. If not, go back and read it.

Obviously, one gram of magnesium over a lifetime will not prevent grass tetany.

 

[Dave]

The vast majority of the time mineral supplements pay. Go to the drug store and look at the products they sell as immunity support. They are vitamins and minerals. This last summer we weaned 120 calves on a 100+ degree day in August. They got along with other things a Multimin 90 shot. They then had loose minerals in front of them 24/7. They went through a 50 pound bag a week. Worked out to cost me $1.60 per calf for the 45 day weaning period. During that time we had zero sick calves to doctor. How much money did we save not having to doctor calves or the cost of even one dead calf?

 

[Travlr]

I hope you know what you said. If not, go back and read it.

Obviously, one gram of magnesium over a lifetime will not prevent grass tetany.

It will if that's the difference between what's required and what's in the natural diet.

And all nutrients are not alike in requirement, even at all times. Some more, some less. The point being that all that is required is what is missing. And any complete supplements you buy are grossly over in the amounts required regardless of delivery method or expense.

It's like saying one brand of gasoline is better than another when they all come out of the same storage tank.

 

[Ky hills]

I've found that good mineral mixes are one of the most important parts to maintain cattle.
I've noticed better conception rates, less pinkeye, better overall appearance of cattle when on a high quality mineral program.
Bought some co op high mag mineral yesterday it has 11.50% magnesium in it.
I wanted a chelated type mineral this time around but did not get it. I can't always remember the names of the mineral and they change the names so it's sometimes hard to get the precise product. I'll ask specifically for chelated beef breeder mineral next time.
This what I got yesterday.

675MA

www.ourcoop.com

 

[Travlr]

I've found that good mineral mixes are one of the most important parts to maintain cattle.

Bought some co op high mag mineral yesterday it has 11.50% magnesium in it.

The daily value is different than the percent of a daily value. That "11.5%" is not eleven and a half percent of the weight of the mineral... it's 11.5% of the recommended daily requirements.

Most supplements are measured in micrograms and the delivery system is salt as something that will attract cattle to ingest it.

 

[Ky hills]

The daily value is different than the percent of a daily value. That "11.5%" is not eleven and a half percent of the weight of the mineral... it's 11.5% of the recommended daily requirements.

Most supplements are measured in micrograms and the delivery system is salt as something that will attract cattle to ingest it.

What ever it means, I'm taking for granted that it's just a supplemental source, but enough to help provide the daily intake need.
My point was, our cattle do better in a lot of ways when they are on a decent mineral and have consistent access to it.

 

[Travlr]

What ever it means, I'm taking for granted that it's just a supplemental source, but enough to help provide the daily intake need.
My point was, our cattle do better in a lot of ways when they are on a decent mineral and have consistent access to it.

And I'm not saying any different... other than suggesting that any legitimate supplement, cheap or expensive, does the same thing.

I'm NOT saying supplemental nutrients are unnecessary. I'm saying that any product with a label that contains the essential nutrient is just as likely to do the job as any other.

I suppose it's possible that some outfits don't put what they claim on their labels in their products. That might be a concern. But if they have the nutrients claimed they are going to be adequate.

 

[wbvs58]

I hope you know what you said. If not, go back and read it.

Obviously, one gram of magnesium over a lifetime will not prevent grass tetany.

I wouldn't call Mg a trace mineral. It would be in the same category as P, calcium, sodium etc.

Ken

 

[wbvs58]

@Little Joe, You almost have the perfect mineral if they would kick that selenium up higher. You have a higher Calcium content which I wish Co-op would kick up.
I want that 30 ppm selenium as that is a biggie in breeding and calving. If your soil is low the lack of selenium can cause the placenta to become thick and less pliable and it is one of the reasons that it hangs on the the calves neck and head and does not fall off. Or the calf cannot break free from it. But the rest of it is spot on. If selenium is low in breeding stock, it disrupts reproduction as well. But your soil may be where 26 is perfect.

They said Moorman made one with 32 ppm selenium, but I can't locate it. But Co-op feeds need to increase Calcium to your rate.

And I like the fact that they don't add half a bag of Distillers grain to make them eat it then they have to back down because of the salt. I just refuse to pay $40 something a bag for distillers grain when I can go get a truck load of it down the road. Then when I buy mineral, I am getting 50 lbs of mineral and not all that filler. Distillers is like candy to a cow. Then they advertise "Let your cows tell you what they want." They want salt and distillers grain. But not mixed. I feel like someone is laughing somewhere. I bet the cows come out of the mineral feeders looking like Dave Chappell when he does his crack cocaine skits and has white powder all the way around his mouth. Dave Chappell is hilarious.

Suzanne, there would be a lot of resistance by manufactures to increase the selenium level as they have no control over who or where it is used and selenium toxicity could easily occur.

Ken

 

[simme]

I wouldn't call Mg a trace mineral. It would be in the same category as P, calcium, sodium etc.

Ken

I agree with that. But the post I originally responded to seems to put anything lacking in the soil or feed into the category of trace mineral if it affected the health of the animal. The trace minerals typically are listed as a ppm or IU/pound content. Major minerals are typically listed as % of the bag contents on a weight basis.

 

[Ky hills]

And I'm not saying any different... other than suggesting that any legitimate supplement, cheap or expensive, does the same thing.

I'm NOT saying supplemental nutrients are unnecessary. I'm saying that any product with a label that contains the essential nutrient is just as likely to do the job as any other.

I suppose it's possible that some outfits don't put what they claim on their labels in their products. That might be a concern. But if they have the nutrients claimed they are going to be adequate.

From what I understand, from talking with feed company owners is that when it comes to feed if they have a percent protein that is listed they absolutely have to have no less than that or they could get in some serious hot water. Was told once that a certain feed mix I was looking into might sometimes have a slightly higher protein content just because they did not want a batch to go under the stated amount. I would think the mineral would be the same.
I have to kind of disagree about the same amount of minerals doing the same thing.
Several years ago I was told by a friend after having abysmal conception rates on some heifers that I needed chelated mineral. From what I understand about it some minerals are not fully absorbed and just pass on through and the chelated minerals are somehow attached to an amino acid or something that helps them to be absorbed, thus the animal gets more benefit from said minerals.

 

[Stickney94]

I feed mineral -- vitaferm, a local grain mill version, and a large farm store chain label -- I vary throughout the year. However, like Travlr suggests -- I'd suggest anyone with questions go look up a ration balancer tool if for no other reason to get an idea what feedstuffs generally provide in terms of nutrients/minerals -- it may lesson the angst (this is the Univ of MN version). My current ration does not require supplemental CA, P, K, S for example. Still, mineral is relatively cheap insurance.

 

[Travlr]

From what I understand, from talking with feed company owners is that when it comes to feed if they have a percent protein that is listed they absolutely have to have no less than that or they could get in some serious hot water. Was told once that a certain feed mix I was looking into might sometimes have a slightly higher protein content just because they did not want a batch to go under the stated amount. I would think the mineral would be the same.
I have to kind of disagree about the same amount of minerals doing the same thing.
Several years ago I was told by a friend after having abysmal conception rates on some heifers that I needed chelated mineral. From what I understand about it some minerals are not fully absorbed and just pass on through and the chelated minerals are somehow attached to an amino acid or something that helps them to be absorbed, thus the animal gets more benefit from said minerals.

Yup, percent of DV is different than DV. And also the bioavailability can vary depending on absorption rates. Most ends up excreted.

It's just like human vitamins. They make them with various procedures and varying amounts, but the body will only use so much and most is passed in our urine or feces.

 

[idunno]

The daily value is different than the percent of a daily value. That "11.5%" is not eleven and a half percent of the weight of the mineral... it's 11.5% of the recommended daily requirements.

Most supplements are measured in micrograms and the delivery system is salt as something that will attract cattle to ingest it.

Are you saying that the percentage on the tag doesn't represent the amount in the product?

 

[Travlr]

Are you saying that the percentage on the tag doesn't represent the amount in the product?

No, I'm saying that the tag needs to be interpreted properly.

 

[idunno]

No, I'm saying that the tag needs to be interpreted properly.

So if the tag says 10% of a certain nutrient, how should that be interpreted?

 

[M.Magis]

When listed as a percentage, it is a percentage by weight. It's not a percentage of the daily recommended, like it is on human food nutritional tags.
Feed label guide