Minerals!!

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Brute 23

Brute 23
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At 4 oz/day per head (recommended rate), should have lasted 250 days-would have been adding additional steers to the equation, but when 2 killed it off in 60+ days, that’s not cost effective
You might be mixing up the tub and loose mineral. I couldn't find the specs on that tub but they are usually 2-3# per head per day which is right around what you experienced. Loose mineral in a bag is 4oz.

Correction:
Here is a link that says it's only a 1/4 to 1/2# per day per head. It also lists some things that effect consumption. I couldnt find it on the actual purina website.

With tubs you are paying for convenience and scale. Only you can decide if its a better value.
 
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Nkline

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My question isn't whether too put out loose minerals it is how to compare minerals so I can get the best results at the most economical price. I feel Vita Ferm is a top mineral but cost is making it hard too justify on a year round basis, We are trying a Nutrition Plus product this summer. It has garlic oil in it. May go back to Concept Aid this winter unless I can find an comparable product that is cheaper. Tried Vigortone 3 years ago and wasn't satisfied with it. May try Purina wind and rain if I'm not satisfied with the results of the Nutrition Plus mineral we are trying,
They usually mark expected consumption on the bag. It can usually be roughly estimated by the percent phosphorus. Then I would look at iu’s of zinc, copper, and vitamins(mostly if you aren’t on green grass). You want to also take not of selenium (some areas need it more, some breeds need it more), and also cobalt especially if you don’t have legumes in your pasture. You should take note of magnesium especially early season, when your forage may be high potassium. Look down the ingredient lists and see what form each mineral is in so you can roughly figure out absorption.

Is there a problem you are having that you are trying to address; why are you switching minerals so often?
 

bird dog

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I try to keep it simple. I use a nutrition plus mineral free choice year round. Nothing fancy just a mix that is somewhat suited for my area according to their nutritionist. Consumption goes up and down like it should as things change. I put out free choice stock salt if they seem to be consuming to much. Doing this seems to get their consumption correct as they eat about 3 oz a day of mineral on a year round basis. Probably a couple ounces of salt since it is not out all the time. I also put out a few protein/mineral tubs in the winter I consider my heard health to be pretty good. No scours in calves, one retained placenta this year, black cows are black, all the calves shed off their hair but one, hair coats are shiny, weight gains seem to be what is considered average for my area. What else should you look for?
Mineral costs run about $35 per animal unit per year. Mineral/protein tubs run about $10 per unit per year.
 

TexasBred

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At 4 oz/day per head (recommended rate), should have lasted 250 days-would have been adding additional steers to the equation, but when 2 killed it off in 60+ days, that’s not cost effective
Did the tub actually say consumption should be around 4 oz per head per day.
 

elkwc

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They usually mark expected consumption on the bag. It can usually be roughly estimated by the percent phosphorus. Then I would look at iu’s of zinc, copper, and vitamins(mostly if you aren’t on green grass). You want to also take not of selenium (some areas need it more, some breeds need it more), and also cobalt especially if you don’t have legumes in your pasture. You should take note of magnesium especially early season, when your forage may be high potassium. Look down the ingredient lists and jc

see what form each mineral is in so you can roughly figure out absorption.

Is there a problem you are having that you are trying to address; why are you switching minerals so often?
It is evident that reader comprehension isn't your strong suit. And I don't switch mineral very often. Have trialed some of those mentioned trying too find something that works as good as what I've been using.
I have talked too several nutritionists and vets who also studied nutrition and minerals. All have stated that without knowing the source of a mineral an independent lab test is the best option. All of those numbers mean little without knowing source and type. My question is basically is there anywhere that has ran comparison tests on the major minerals and has results without having a test ran on each brand which maybe my best option.
 

wbvs58

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I've been a bit slack with my mineral the last couple of months mainly due to waterlogged conditions and difficulty shifting the feeder when I move paddocks plus they weren't consuming much when they last accessed it. I got a feeder into them 4 days ago and been putting in a 25kg bag a day which they have been polishing off. I was watching them this morning when I put a new bag in and some old girls were actually taking big mouthfulls of it rather than the usual licking and of course spilling it everywhere. Usually when they need it a couple of days is all they need to top up but at the moment they seem desperate. It is only because of this thread I felt guilty and thought I better do something about it, glad I did. To be expected I guess with late winter pasture.

Ken
 

Nkline

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It is evident that reader comprehension isn't your strong suit. And I don't switch mineral very often. Have trialed some of those mentioned trying too find something that works as good as what I've been using.
I have talked too several nutritionists and vets who also studied nutrition and minerals. All have stated that without knowing the source of a mineral an independent lab test is the best option. All of those numbers mean little without knowing source and type. My question is basically is there anywhere that has ran comparison tests on the major minerals and has results without having a test ran on each brand which maybe my best option.

My wife would inform you, that my reading comprehension is far superior to my listening skills. :) The mineral tags I have seen have ingredient lists. An independent lab won’t give you the best results, you need real world animal absorption. Cows arn’t going to use lab techniques to separate minerals, they’re going to use their digestive tract and the flora and fauna within. In biology everything has consequences, and environment, and feed will impact your results as well.
 

elkwc

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My wife would inform you, that my reading comprehension is far superior to my listening skills. :) The mineral tags I have seen have ingredient lists. An independent lab won’t give you the best results, you need real world animal absorption. Cows arn’t going to use lab techniques to separate minerals, they’re going to use their digestive tract and the flora and fauna within. In biology everything has consequences, and environment, and feed will impact your results as well.
I will trust reputable vets and nutritionists before I will someone behind a computer on the internet. The ones I listen too have successful businesses. Ingredient lists mean little if you don't know their source. Cows will use their digestive tracts but if an ingredient isn't in the proper form it won't be utilized to it's full potential. A list without needed data is worthless. Just like your post.
 

Nkline

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I will trust reputable vets and nutritionists before I will someone behind a computer on the internet. The ones I listen too have successful businesses. Ingredient lists mean little if you don't know their source. Cows will use their digestive tracts but if an ingredient isn't in the proper form it won't be utilized to it's full potential. A list without needed data is worthless. Just like your post.
I’m saying test the cows after they eat the mineral. I have an animal science degree from Iowa State University, and lack quantm mechanics from a chem minor. If you don’t want advise from the internet, don’t go to the internet for advise.
 

FungusProudKY31

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Source or not, you either learn to read the mineral labels, know ingredients and type/sources or you absorb anything like a sponge. Some of the minerals mentioned in the thread would be my least preferred not due to the brand but from reading labels in farm stores.

A degree is a good thing - the person made an effort. If a person chose not to get a degree and made something of themselves - it is the same level of good. However, in the process of any education there should be some learning going on. Same as med- do you want a skilled surgeon or Dr. Jack Legg?
 

faster horses

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I’m shocked you had to talk to so many people to figure out you had copper deficiency. That was in multiple 100 level classes at college. I mix my own mineral for the range with a small cement mixer. I was having retained placentas, and needed more magnesium in my mineral than what companies had in there offerings. I reversed engineered my mineral with more premium ingredients, and doing the math I was shocked at the mineral companies profit margins.
This was in 1900's and early 90's. Mineral wasn't talked about much at that time. We were not on a mineral program, except to put it out now and then. The old adage "if they didn't eat it they didn't need it" was the thought. Mineral in our area (MT) wasn't researched much until John Patterson at MSU started studying it. He published his findings and wow! he helped so much to find out what the problems were. That was later in the 90's.
Mineral formulation is an exact science. Sounds like you are getting along okay so far. We have veterinarians, nutritionist, researchers on staff to help us because we don't just sell a bag of mineral. We have support system in place on many levels. We do water sampling, forage analysis, fecal samples all free of charge to our customers.
 

faster horses

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Yes. I made a blanket statement that was incorrect. It's the vitamins that are absolutely china origin. If any of you remember, there was a fire or something in a factory 2-3-4 years ago and mineral prices went thru the roof.
That fire was in Germany, not China, and that was the source of many of the vitamins used in many countries, not just the USA. It produced a shortage of vitamins which was evident in any product that contained such.



 

faster horses

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At the end of the day it comes down to what cravings drive them to the mineral feeder and I know that the two main minerals that give them a craving to lick the mineral are Phosphorous and Sodium. Phosphorous in particular,
Phosphorus is a LIMITER. It's bitter. It is used in different scenerios to limit intake--in spring our customers have found they can use a formula with much less phos (which saves them money as phos is the most expensive ingredient in mineral, but later in summer cattle will overeat that same blend, trying to get more phos because it has lessened in the forage as the forage dries up. (Talking MT and WY because that is what I am familiar with. Our company has reps in many areas that are familiar with what is in the grass because they have taken grass samples, so they KNOW pretty much, what will work. Are there oddities, sure. Then grass samples are taken and a custom mix is built.

dry winter pastures can be low but also lush fast growing pastures and forage crops will have them visiting the mineral feeder. Australia is very low in phosphorous and in remote Northern Australia big gains in fertility can be made by supplementing Phosphorous.

Ken
 

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