Minerals

[tcolvin]

Still haven't found a VitaFirm dealer close by but my local feed store Carries a High Mag mineral. My county agent said it was a good mineral but I'm listening. Look at the content label. It's high in calcium and magnesium and salt isn't as high as the old one I had. Let me know your thoughts.

 

[tcolvin]

Warren Allison

www.cattletoday.com

 

[Silver]

If you're wanting the mag then I would want to ask an expert if this is what you want. According to the label the mag is in oxide form which is not nearly as bio available as in phosphate form. Like less than half as available.

 

[tcolvin]

If you're wanting the mag then I would want to ask an expert if this is what you want. According to the label the mag is in oxide form which is not nearly as bio available as in phosphate form. Like less than half as available.

I wish the vitafirm was close to me. I going to see if my feed store can get it. Thanks for reply.

 

[tcolvin]

If you're wanting the mag then I would want to ask an expert if this is what you want. According to the label the mag is in oxide form which is not nearly as bio available as in phosphate form. Like less than half as available.

So if I understand correctly, your saying that the magnesium shows min 16% and max 20%, then because it is in oxide form that they will only absorb maybe half the values? Like maybe min 8% and max 10% if your lucky?

 

[Silver]

So if I understand correctly, your saying that the magnesium shows min 16% and max 20%, then because it is in oxide form that they will only absorb maybe half the values? Like maybe min 8% and max 10% if your lucky?

Well I guess if the oxide form is 20% available and phosphate is 40%+ available you would need to figure out how much you want to get into them to decide if it's right for you. One thing is that they claim magnesium oxide is more palatable than the phosphate so that's a consideration as well. But like I said before, there's lots of folks know a lot more than I do, hopefully they will chime in for you.

 

[M.Magis]

I know nothing of Vitafirm, but I'm certain its not the only good mineral available. Don't overthink it, ask the local feed store manager what minerals the local ranches prefer. You may be surprised how many cattle get by with nothing but a brown salt block, if that.

 

[Chuckie]

This is a great article about Magnesium from the Dairy side of things. I like to read Dairy articles because they seem to dig deeper as Milk cows are more susceptible to problems when their nutrients are off. So they micromanage them. So this is a good read... Short, but good.
Tells you how to increase the absorption of Magnesium oxide up to 25% more if that is the source that you feed.

Update on Magnesium Nutrition of Dairy Cows | Ohio Dairy Industry Resources Center

dairy.osu.edu

 

[wbvs58]

Do you need hi levels of magnesium? Do you anticipate lush spring pastures where grass tetany may be a problem especially if the cows are milking heavily?

Ken

 

[elkwc]

I know nothing of Vitafirm, but I'm certain its not the only good mineral available. Don't overthink it, ask the local feed store manager what minerals the local ranches prefer. You may be surprised how many cattle get by with nothing but a brown salt block, if that.

There are other good minerals out there. In our experience and we have tried at least 5-6 of the major minerals offered in this area Ira Ferm would be the Cadillac the others an small car. Our rate of weaned calves is over 95% every year on it. Breed back is better . Sure other mineral packages work as good in other areas. Local feed stores is not always the best place for information on the best mineral package for your environment. That is one area that many cut corners on. In the recent drought many had open rates up to 40% feeding the mineral packages sold at a feed store. We had a 95% bred rate. Best to consult nutritionists or those like us that have tried most available products. If I can find a close source going to try the Rio max tubs on a limited basis.

 

[tcolvin]

This is a great article about Magnesium from the Dairy side of things. I like to read Dairy articles because they seem to dig deeper as Milk cows are more susceptible to problems when their nutrients are off. So they micromanage them. So this is a good read... Short, but good.
Tells you how to increase the absorption of Magnesium oxide up to 25% more if that is the source that you feed.

Update on Magnesium Nutrition of Dairy Cows | Ohio Dairy Industry Resources Center

dairy.osu.edu

Interesting read

 

[ClinchValley86]

May not be the best, but I get mineral from the local CO-OP. I get #663 and keep out pretty much year round. They consume it well most of the year. Sometimes they don't eat much. Seems forage dependent.

Last year I fed some with garlic and cinnamon for fly control, after 2 weeks it really seemed to help. It was VitaFerm maybe. Can't recall exactly the brand. Smelled strong.

 

[WFfarm]

Phosphorus is low, we look for 4% - 7.5%. Helps with conception.

 

[Chuckie]

May not be the best, but I get mineral from the local CO-OP. I get #663 and keep out pretty much year round. They consume it well most of the year. Sometimes they don't eat much. Seems forage dependent.

Last year I fed some with garlic and cinnamon for fly control, after 2 weeks it really seemed to help. It was VitaFerm maybe. Can't recall exactly the brand. Smelled strong.

I feed Co-op minerals too. Ultimate Minerals # 96660 almost has it down but we all can find areas we want to add more to it.

 

[Little Joe]

Mineral I currently use, $25/ bag at local feed store, I will swap to hi mag in spring and probably something with garlic and cinnamon come summer

 

[Chuckie]

@Little Joe, You almost have the perfect mineral if they would kick that selenium up higher. You have a higher Calcium content which I wish Co-op would kick up.
I want that 30 ppm selenium as that is a biggie in breeding and calving. If your soil is low the lack of selenium can cause the placenta to become thick and less pliable and it is one of the reasons that it hangs on the the calves neck and head and does not fall off. Or the calf cannot break free from it. But the rest of it is spot on. If selenium is low in breeding stock, it disrupts reproduction as well. But your soil may be where 26 is perfect.

They said Moorman made one with 32 ppm selenium, but I can't locate it. But Co-op feeds need to increase Calcium to your rate.

And I like the fact that they don't add half a bag of Distillers grain to make them eat it then they have to back down because of the salt. I just refuse to pay $40 something a bag for distillers grain when I can go get a truck load of it down the road. Then when I buy mineral, I am getting 50 lbs of mineral and not all that filler. Distillers is like candy to a cow. Then they advertise "Let your cows tell you what they want." They want salt and distillers grain. But not mixed. I feel like someone is laughing somewhere. I bet the cows come out of the mineral feeders looking like Dave Chappell when he does his crack cocaine skits and has white powder all the way around his mouth. Dave Chappell is hilarious.

 

[Little Joe]

Can they test the selenium when I pull soil samples?

 

[Travlr]

I don't know... but it seems very weird to me that there is so much angst over minerals and all the dialog discussing what is really very easy.

If there is something lacking in soil or feed, something that affects the health, fertility, or whatever that we all need in an animal... it is going to be something that is only required in such small quantities that we call them "trace" minerals. Which means the amount of mineral needed to keep our animal healthy is going to be so small that it is measured in less than a gram over the lifetime of a cow. Trace... may literally be the size of a grain of sand over the entire lifetime of an animal. And it certainly will not be measured in the size of blocks of salt, bags of loose mineral, or in the quantities claimed on the label.

In fact the quantities on the label are far greater than the animals need. FAR greater. FAR, far, far, far, FAR greater. In EVERY case. And the "bioavailability" issue is truly a non issue since the animals excrete almost 100% of what they ingest due to the specific mineral/nutrient being unnecessary in the quantities they are ingesting.

So it really seems like the cheapest, longest lasting option does the job. Period. Full stop.

The most expensive product you will ever buy to improve the health of your cattle... is the one that over-medicates and ends up being shat.

 

[simme]

It was stated - "If there is something lacking in soil or feed, something that affects the health, fertility, or whatever that we all need in an animal... it is going to be something that is only required in such small quantities that we call them "trace" minerals. Which means the amount of mineral needed to keep our animal healthy is going to be so small that it is measured in less than a gram over the lifetime of a cow. Trace... may literally be the size of a grain of sand over the entire lifetime of an animal."

One gram over a life time? Less than a grain of sand over a lifetime? I will disagree and advise those reading this to do their own research on the topic. If a student is here looking for information for a school report, I advise to not use that grain of sand info. Research grass tetany and the effect on the health and life (or death) of an animal. Grass tetany is real and can result in quick death due to low or out of balance magnesium levels.

Those ingredients in minerals certainly are a supplement to the minerals in the feed they eat. So the absolute requirement for supplemental mineral depends on the mineral content of grass, hay and feedstuff the cow gets. But also some minerals need to be within a ratio of other minerals in the bloodstream for good health. That can depend on regional issues, seasonal issues, soil fertility issues, cow genetics, lactation, etc. Will your cows die if you don't give supplemental minerals? Probably not, at least not right away.

Some people might say that they don't add antifreeze to their vehicles. That might work for a few places for a while. But not a good practice for most people long term. It would be irresponsible on my part if I recommended that you stop using antifreeze. Your extension people and experienced cattle people in your area are best suited to recommend mineral plan for the area. If someone in your area says no minerals are needed, ask at least two people that own cattle.

 

[Travlr]

Trace... may literally be the size of a grain of sand over the entire lifetime of an animal."

One gram over a life time? Less than a grain of sand over a lifetime? I will disagree and advise those reading this to do their own research on the topic. If a student is here looking for information for a school report, I advise to not use that grain of sand info. Research grass tetany and the effect on the health and life (or death) of an animal. Grass tetany is real and can result in quick death due to low or out of balance magnesium levels.

Yup, and that's exactly what "trace" means in this kind of context. In fact your following statement is exactly why "trace" is what it is.

Those ingredients in minerals certainly are a supplement to the minerals in the feed they eat. So the absolute requirement for supplemental mineral depends on the mineral content of grass, hay and feedstuff the cow gets.

Animals get almost all they need from their environment, and in deficient areas they are still getting "almost" enough.

So as you advise, do your own research. I've done mine. That's why I understand that a 1500 pound cow only needs nutrients measured in parts per million.

From the following link: "A recommended pH for pastures should be 6.0-6.5. According to the tri-state fertility guide, the optimum levels for potassium is between 120-170 ppm and magnesium levels equate to 35-50 ppm depending on soil CEC levels. "

https://www.farmanddairy.com/columns/grazing-practices-to-prevent-grass-tetany/756315.html