Polled Hereford Cattle Plan

[HerefordSire]

I would like feedback so I can determine if I am in the ballpark of being sane.

I bought 300 acres of farm land in 2004. I saved the down stroke by doing without for several years. This year I bought five registered 3008 daughters with calves by their side to use as donors for the sixty black Angus cross recipients I bought at the same time. The blacks are very large, but not as large as the 3008s.

I am in the process of doing semen business with Mr. Reed. So far, I have a list of about 20 bulls, of which, half of the straws I have already paid for. I am the studious type, so I have studied many sources of literature available on the web. So far, one my weaknesses are to try to produce a bull that is a number one trait leader similar to 3008.

Any advice is welcome.

How much studying and work have you done on how to manage donors and recips? I assume the recips have calves on them now, are they currently bred? Are your donors currently bred? Have you chosen who will do your flush work? Who will do your implanting? Who will manage your recips? Managing your recips is probably more important for successful ET work than managing your donors.

I have studied a little about ET but not much on donor & recipient management, other than nutrition requirments, etc. Yes, the 60 recipients have calves which are all female and the 5 donor calves are female. No recipients or donors are currently bred. I am almost ready to pay TransOva for flush management. The same company is expected to transfer the embryos. I would like more insight. Do you have any recommendations concerning the subjects?

 

[HerefordSire]

You have no reputation.

What someone else can sell for 200,000, you can only sell for 20,000, if you are lucky.

By the time these folks "hit the big time", they didn't really need too.

You are talking like the bull will let you "hit the big time", but that is the opposite of how it happens.

QAS Traveler, only made his breeder about $20,000, or whatever he sold for. The first time EXT sold, he only brought commercial prices. He only made them millions after being re-discovered by good record keeping the the herd he went in to. But, the breeder was already establishee by nature of his father's work before him.

mtnman

In my lifetime I sure have heard a bunch of objections. What I found out, is most objections can be overcome one ethical way or another while still holding margins. I am not concerned with reputation objections for I am willing to pay the piper or the initiation fee. I ask for no special priviledges.

Two questions, if you don't mind:

(1) Would that be your only objection from commiting to me..Reputation?

(2) Do you think you could sell the 1/2 interest for $200K the same as another has?

 

[Brandonm2]

So what can I gain by producing a bull that is a leader in more traits than any other bull as classified by the AHA? Good question and I am glad you inquired.

I believe Mr. Felt 3008 is (was) worth several million dollars because he is able to cross over to more specific sub-markets than a bull that is not a multiple trait leader. In other words, a southeastern market and a near opposite market, may be interested in the same animal. You don't say so! If I were fortunate with the wind blowing at my back walking downhill, I might could buy his semen for $1K, or more, a whack. Why is this? Why is Keynote selling for $2K a whack? Why did a Remitall bull recently sell for close to $200K for 1/2 interest? I may be wrong here, but I believe it is all about supply and demand. I can't see the demand. I can't really understand the supply.

I am not interested in doing paperwork a whole bunch of times for a thousand profit here and there. Why use time on a whole bunch of little deals when there is a reasonable chance I could do a big deal(s) and make the same amount of profit and cash flow? In other words, why would I buy 50 shares of IBM's stock instead of 10,000 shares? So for each point she moves upward, I make $50?

I understand completely. The goal of your breeding program is to produce cattle that will bring BIG BUCKS and you think producing a bull who is a trait leader in every trait the Hereford association measures will get you there. Sounds good to me; but remember that Star Lake, Cooper, Holden, Remitall, etc sell a hundred (or more) $2,0000-8,000 bulls for every $250,000 bull that they sell plus they sell a whole lot of dinky little 10 straws and four certificates for ~$450 kind of deals to get those herd sires proven. I don't see how you win the lottery, without building a reputation in the industry with your "little deals". IF you sell 50 bulls to 40 different cattlemen and they don't work in his real world, they are going to talk your cattle down to hundreds of other cattlemen and future cattlemen and your name will be such that when you finally get that trait leader in every trait (and this is a MOVING bar) nobody will care. A $1000 calf sale to some little junior has the capacity to get your animal seen by every major player in the breed for good or for bad. Your reputation is made in the "little deals". They are the deals that make the big deals possible.

 

[Alan]

I understand completely. The goal of your breeding program is to produce cattle that will bring BIG BUCKS and you think producing a bull who is a trait leader in every trait the Hereford association measures will get you there. Sounds good to me; but remember that Star Lake, Cooper, Holden, Remitall, etc sell a hundred (or more) $2,0000-8,000 bulls for every $250,000 bull that they sell plus they sell a whole lot of dinky little 10 straws and four certificates for ~$450 kind of deals to get those herd sires proven. I don't see how you win the lottery, without building a reputation in the industry with your "little deals". IF you sell 50 bulls to 40 different cattlemen and they don't work in his real world, they are going to talk your cattle down to hundreds of other cattlemen and future cattlemen and your name will be such that when you finally get that trait leader in every trait (and this is a MOVING bar) nobody will care. A $1000 calf sale to some little junior has the capacity to get your animal seen by every major player in the breed for good or for bad. Your reputation is made in the "little deals". They are the deals that make the big deals possible.

Well said, and I couldn't agree more! You can't decide to play pro ball without going up through the ranks, paying your dues and building a good reputation for yourself. You can't just breed the best to the best and expect people to come to your place and pay you big bucks just because you have a bull with good numbers and no breeder history.

Alan

 

[Hill Creek Farm]

I would like feedback so I can determine if I am in the ballpark of being sane.

I bought 300 acres of farm land in 2004. I saved the down stroke by doing without for several years. This year I bought five registered 3008 daughters with calves by their side to use as donors for the sixty black Angus cross recipients I bought at the same time. The blacks are very large, but not as large as the 3008s.

I am in the process of doing semen business with Mr. Reed. So far, I have a list of about 20 bulls, of which, half of the straws I have already paid for. I am the studious type, so I have studied many sources of literature available on the web. So far, one my weaknesses are to try to produce a bull that is a number one trait leader similar to 3008.

Any advice is welcome.

The best buy and bull IMO that Reed has is Vindicator, the bull actually has proven results.

Would you mind proving artillery why you are bullish on Vindicator?

Yes, I would like to know as well, Caustic? Yes, Vindicator sires beautiful uddered cows, but some of his daughters are known to prolapse. I know this, it isn't a false state, or made up, its fact. Now you keep on using him and I will keep on using the bulls that don't have that prolapse gene in them. Take care. :cboy:

 

[Campground Cattle]

I would like feedback so I can determine if I am in the ballpark of being sane.

I bought 300 acres of farm land in 2004. I saved the down stroke by doing without for several years. This year I bought five registered 3008 daughters with calves by their side to use as donors for the sixty black Angus cross recipients I bought at the same time. The blacks are very large, but not as large as the 3008s.

I am in the process of doing semen business with Mr. Reed. So far, I have a list of about 20 bulls, of which, half of the straws I have already paid for. I am the studious type, so I have studied many sources of literature available on the web. So far, one my weaknesses are to try to produce a bull that is a number one trait leader similar to 3008.

Any advice is welcome.

The best buy and bull IMO that Reed has is Vindicator, the bull actually has proven results.

Would you mind proving artillery why you are bullish on Vindicator?

Yes, I would like to know as well, Caustic? Yes, Vindicator sires beautiful uddered cows, but some of his daughters are known to prolapse. I know this, it isn't a false state, or made up, its fact. Now you keep on using him and I will keep on using the bulls that don't have that prolapse gene in them. Take care. :cboy:

As a Hereford breeder I agree you are a disgrace, you do more to hurt Hereford's. The guy that bought the biggest add in Hereford World this month doesn't necessarily have the best cattle as you might think. You are to impressed by the money outfits and it shows. You bash Vindicator a bull which has thousands of progeny in production today. Do all of us Herefords Breeders a favor and find another breed to help.

 

[redfornow]

I would like feedback so I can determine if I am in the ballpark of being sane.

I bought 300 acres of farm land in 2004. I saved the down stroke by doing without for several years. This year I bought five registered 3008 daughters with calves by their side to use as donors for the sixty black Angus cross recipients I bought at the same time. The blacks are very large, but not as large as the 3008s.

I am in the process of doing semen business with Mr. Reed. So far, I have a list of about 20 bulls, of which, half of the straws I have already paid for. I am the studious type, so I have studied many sources of literature available on the web. So far, one my weaknesses are to try to produce a bull that is a number one trait leader similar to 3008.

Any advice is welcome.

The best buy and bull IMO that Reed has is Vindicator, the bull actually has proven results.

Would you mind proving artillery why you are bullish on Vindicator?

Yes, I would like to know as well, Caustic? Yes, Vindicator sires beautiful uddered cows, but some of his daughters are known to prolapse. I know this, it isn't a false state, or made up, its fact. Now you keep on using him and I will keep on using the bulls that don't have that prolapse gene in them. Take care. :cboy:

As a Hereford breeder I agree you are a disgrace, you do more to hurt Hereford's. The guy that bought the biggest add in Hereford World this month doesn't necessarily have the best cattle as you might think. You are to impressed by the money outfits and it shows. You bash Vindicator a bull which has thousands of progeny in production today. Do all of us Herefords Breeders a favor and find another breed to help.

I understand that Gelbvieh's are teh next breed HCF tries to destroy.
The move could be good for hereford's.
MD

 

[Chris H]

I would like feedback so I can determine if I am in the ballpark of being sane.

I bought 300 acres of farm land in 2004. I saved the down stroke by doing without for several years. This year I bought five registered 3008 daughters with calves by their side to use as donors for the sixty black Angus cross recipients I bought at the same time. The blacks are very large, but not as large as the 3008s.

I am in the process of doing semen business with Mr. Reed. So far, I have a list of about 20 bulls, of which, half of the straws I have already paid for. I am the studious type, so I have studied many sources of literature available on the web. So far, one my weaknesses are to try to produce a bull that is a number one trait leader similar to 3008.

Any advice is welcome.

How much studying and work have you done on how to manage donors and recips? I assume the recips have calves on them now, are they currently bred? Are your donors currently bred? Have you chosen who will do your flush work? Who will do your implanting? Who will manage your recips? Managing your recips is probably more important for successful ET work than managing your donors.

I have studied a little about ET but not much on donor & recipient management, other than nutrition requirments, etc. Yes, the 60 recipients have calves which are all female and the 5 donor calves are female. No recipients or donors are currently bred. I am almost ready to pay TransOva for flush management. The same company is expected to transfer the embryos. I would like more insight. Do you have any recommendations concerning the subjects?

I have the impression you haven't had cattle before so a lot of my advice is based on that assumption. If you do know a good bit about cattle then I'm just restating things you know to do.

I can't say what you can expect from TransOva since I've never worked with them. Our vet does ET work and gives us direction on overall management of the herd health. If TransOva does that then get with them ASAP.
We prefer to calve March-April or October. I'm not sure when you intend to calve but you've missed the March-April time period for 2007. If you intend to calve in the fall then you need to get started with this whole process.
If I was you I'd contact TransOva and find out what services they can provide for management of your herd health. If they don't work with you other than flushing and implanting then get with your vet ASAP. You'll need to have your cattle on an excellent mineral program, all shots up to date, donors & recips in the proper BCS. All this should be planned well in advance because if you have deficiencies in any one area it will cost you in poor conception rates. And some of these areas will take several months to correct if you have a deficiency.
You'll need to decide what you'll be doing to synchronize your recips, TransOva will probably want you to follow their protocal. You'll need several weeks minimum to get everyone synchronized before the flushing. Unfrozen eggs have higher survivability than frozen eggs so plan to implant as soon as you flush.
Facilities: You need facilities where the cattle can be handled quietly and efficiently. Keep stress to an absolute minimum for donors AND recips. If the recips will be managed and implanted at your farm have TransOva or your vet give advice on any improvements they'd like to see, then follow them! You're going to have a lot of money invested in all this, don't throw it away because you mishandle the recips and get poor conception rates. I've heard good things about using a dark box for AI'ing, it'd probably work well for implanting also.
Get your recips used to being handled, a calm recip is more likely to get pregnant. This is a time when a little feed is a great thing for training the cattle to come up into your work facilities.

I think you've set a pretty good goal but on the way to making that goal you're missing something. If those cows have calves on their side now but are open then they are costing you. Unless those calves are less than 3 months old those cows should be bred. If you're going to take more time to research what bulls you're going to be using then you should have put a bull in with those cows and planned to do your ET work next spring. A crossbred calf is more valuable than no calf. I'm not sure of the preferred time to calve in Arkansas, but I bet you don't want to calve in the summer. That means you should look at fall calving to get your investment to start paying back as soon as possible.

I'm curious, how'd it come about that all the calves on the recips are females? Are they ET calves? Are the calves on the donors registerable stock?

 

[Chris H]

Whoa! Got another question for you. In another thread you posted a link to a heifer that you say you own, the Hereford Association show that owner as a Pedigree member. That means you won't have EPD's to promote your animals.
You have to report birth weights, weaning weights, and yearling weights if you want EPD's from the Hereford Ass'n. You're also going to want to do ultrasounding on your yearlings to provide accurate EPD's for IMF, REA, & Fat.

 

[Hill Creek Farm]

I would like feedback so I can determine if I am in the ballpark of being sane.

I bought 300 acres of farm land in 2004. I saved the down stroke by doing without for several years. This year I bought five registered 3008 daughters with calves by their side to use as donors for the sixty black Angus cross recipients I bought at the same time. The blacks are very large, but not as large as the 3008s.

I am in the process of doing semen business with Mr. Reed. So far, I have a list of about 20 bulls, of which, half of the straws I have already paid for. I am the studious type, so I have studied many sources of literature available on the web. So far, one my weaknesses are to try to produce a bull that is a number one trait leader similar to 3008.

Any advice is welcome.

The best buy and bull IMO that Reed has is Vindicator, the bull actually has proven results.

Would you mind proving artillery why you are bullish on Vindicator?

Yes, I would like to know as well, Caustic? Yes, Vindicator sires beautiful uddered cows, but some of his daughters are known to prolapse. I know this, it isn't a false state, or made up, its fact. Now you keep on using him and I will keep on using the bulls that don't have that prolapse gene in them. Take care. :cboy:

As a Hereford breeder I agree you are a disgrace, you do more to hurt Hereford's. The guy that bought the biggest add in Hereford World this month doesn't necessarily have the best cattle as you might think. You are to impressed by the money outfits and it shows. You bash Vindicator a bull which has thousands of progeny in production today. Do all of us Herefords Breeders a favor and find another breed to help.

I don't think there are to many Vindicator daughters active today. That bull is old and pretty much anicent. Most of his daugthers are dead and if there not dead, well there going to be before to long. VNow you may have some Vindicator calves, but known uses him anymore. Old genes, I can't make money off of genes that were used over 10 to 15 years or more ago. No one is going to buy bulls from me, with Vindicator as the sire, old genes. I need to use genes that are from the present, like World Class, Red Oak, Governor, Boomers, and some others; not Vindicator. Use keep on using him, but I am not and I wouldn't want too. Bad bull. And no, I am not hurting the Hereford breed, I am putting down just two bulls, Vindicator and 103T; KNOWN FOR PROLAPSE! Take care. :cboy:

 

[HerefordSire]

So what can I gain by producing a bull that is a leader in more traits than any other bull as classified by the AHA? Good question and I am glad you inquired.

I believe Mr. Felt 3008 is (was) worth several million dollars because he is able to cross over to more specific sub-markets than a bull that is not a multiple trait leader. In other words, a southeastern market and a near opposite market, may be interested in the same animal. You don't say so! If I were fortunate with the wind blowing at my back walking downhill, I might could buy his semen for $1K, or more, a whack. Why is this? Why is Keynote selling for $2K a whack? Why did a Remitall bull recently sell for close to $200K for 1/2 interest? I may be wrong here, but I believe it is all about supply and demand. I can't see the demand. I can't really understand the supply.

I am not interested in doing paperwork a whole bunch of times for a thousand profit here and there. Why use time on a whole bunch of little deals when there is a reasonable chance I could do a big deal(s) and make the same amount of profit and cash flow? In other words, why would I buy 50 shares of IBM's stock instead of 10,000 shares? So for each point she moves upward, I make $50?

I understand completely. The goal of your breeding program is to produce cattle that will bring BIG BUCKS and you think producing a bull who is a trait leader in every trait the Hereford association measures will get you there. Sounds good to me; but remember that Star Lake, Cooper, Holden, Remitall, etc sell a hundred (or more) $2,0000-8,000 bulls for every $250,000 bull that they sell plus they sell a whole lot of dinky little 10 straws and four certificates for ~$450 kind of deals to get those herd sires proven. I don't see how you win the lottery, without building a reputation in the industry with your "little deals". IF you sell 50 bulls to 40 different cattlemen and they don't work in his real world, they are going to talk your cattle down to hundreds of other cattlemen and future cattlemen and your name will be such that when you finally get that trait leader in every trait (and this is a MOVING bar) nobody will care. A $1000 calf sale to some little junior has the capacity to get your animal seen by every major player in the breed for good or for bad. Your reputation is made in the "little deals". They are the deals that make the big deals possible.

Please review prior my post concerning the "reputation" objection. I am willing to pay the piper. I expect no special treatment.

Allow me to expand a litte more:

When I learned to write C++ programming language (now a Windows programmer for a NYSE listed Engineering R & D Department), I taught myself by pecking a keyboard like a chicken, day and night, only to fall asleep on the carpeted floor within arms range from the keyboard. I would wake up and rush to make a cup of coffee before I nodded off sitting in front of the monitor. I started working by hauling hay as a kid for 3 cents a bale and threw 100 pound bales (sometimes green and hot) up ten feet to the top of a 105+ degree barn stack. I hauled so much hay by the time I got in high school I had more cash than anyone I knew, including many adults. By the time I got to ninth grade I could palm and dunk a basketball because all the hay I hauled and a few fortunate genes. When I got to college, I earned my way with an NCAA scholarship where I was trained to be a violent killing machine (not literally), prior to getting married and having twin sons. Now I have a grandson almost two carring my name onward which is an interesting story in itself. When I started roughnecking in the oilfields as a derrick hand in my 20s, I strapped a rope on me bending over 120 foot in the air on a 9" platform pulling and arranging heavy drill pipe. Later on, after shattering many sales awards in various companies, I learned to trade stock like a hedge fund manager. I made more money for people in one day that I have made in my lifetime due to a short squeeze I was involved with. I can go on and on here, but what is the point?

I worked my way to the top of what ever I have chosen in my life because of my drive and persistence and I don't give up! Sometimes, I even chose sorting chicken eggs to pay my way, but I sorted more eggs that anyone in the company. The engineering computer program I write is used by our offices in China, India, Mexico, and most locatons in the US where a deal of our kind is possible. If I am able to form a foundation of quality multiple trait leading animals, the sales will follow, believe me. When you may ask? If it happens in 20 years I will be 65. If I die before it happens, my seed can be positioned to lead the market. If it happens before, then I can make larger breeding investments as I hope to build unique gene combinations increasing rancher income and cash flow.

Most purchasing objections can be overcome still holding margins as long as you have what the other person truly wants. If you don't have a product the potential buyer truly wants, why take a chance and pressure the sale (ruin my reputation)? I always take the sale away. How do I sense when I have a good product or when a buyer wants a product I have?

Look for saliva dripping. :help:

 

[Campground Cattle]

Hill you don't think those grand-daughter's and great grand-daughters are in production today shows your ignorance again on Herefords.
This is the main reason seedstock breeders get a bad name is from garbage like you put out.
I will reserve any further post for Hereford breeders I have respect for.
Nuff Said

 

[HerefordSire]

I would like feedback so I can determine if I am in the ballpark of being sane.

I bought 300 acres of farm land in 2004. I saved the down stroke by doing without for several years. This year I bought five registered 3008 daughters with calves by their side to use as donors for the sixty black Angus cross recipients I bought at the same time. The blacks are very large, but not as large as the 3008s.

I am in the process of doing semen business with Mr. Reed. So far, I have a list of about 20 bulls, of which, half of the straws I have already paid for. I am the studious type, so I have studied many sources of literature available on the web. So far, one my weaknesses are to try to produce a bull that is a number one trait leader similar to 3008.

Any advice is welcome.

How much studying and work have you done on how to manage donors and recips? I assume the recips have calves on them now, are they currently bred? Are your donors currently bred? Have you chosen who will do your flush work? Who will do your implanting? Who will manage your recips? Managing your recips is probably more important for successful ET work than managing your donors.

I have studied a little about ET but not much on donor & recipient management, other than nutrition requirments, etc. Yes, the 60 recipients have calves which are all female and the 5 donor calves are female. No recipients or donors are currently bred. I am almost ready to pay TransOva for flush management. The same company is expected to transfer the embryos. I would like more insight. Do you have any recommendations concerning the subjects?

I have the impression you haven't had cattle before so a lot of my advice is based on that assumption. If you do know a good bit about cattle then I'm just restating things you know to do.

I can't say what you can expect from TransOva since I've never worked with them. Our vet does ET work and gives us direction on overall management of the herd health. If TransOva does that then get with them ASAP.
We prefer to calve March-April or October. I'm not sure when you intend to calve but you've missed the March-April time period for 2007. If you intend to calve in the fall then you need to get started with this whole process.
If I was you I'd contact TransOva and find out what services they can provide for management of your herd health. If they don't work with you other than flushing and implanting then get with your vet ASAP. You'll need to have your cattle on an excellent mineral program, all shots up to date, donors & recips in the proper BCS. All this should be planned well in advance because if you have deficiencies in any one area it will cost you in poor conception rates. And some of these areas will take several months to correct if you have a deficiency.
You'll need to decide what you'll be doing to synchronize your recips, TransOva will probably want you to follow their protocal. You'll need several weeks minimum to get everyone synchronized before the flushing. Unfrozen eggs have higher survivability than frozen eggs so plan to implant as soon as you flush.
Facilities: You need facilities where the cattle can be handled quietly and efficiently. Keep stress to an absolute minimum for donors AND recips. If the recips will be managed and implanted at your farm have TransOva or your vet give advice on any improvements they'd like to see, then follow them! You're going to have a lot of money invested in all this, don't throw it away because you mishandle the recips and get poor conception rates. I've heard good things about using a dark box for AI'ing, it'd probably work well for implanting also.
Get your recips used to being handled, a calm recip is more likely to get pregnant. This is a time when a little feed is a great thing for training the cattle to come up into your work facilities.

I think you've set a pretty good goal but on the way to making that goal you're missing something. If those cows have calves on their side now but are open then they are costing you. Unless those calves are less than 3 months old those cows should be bred. If you're going to take more time to research what bulls you're going to be using then you should have put a bull in with those cows and planned to do your ET work next spring. A crossbred calf is more valuable than no calf. I'm not sure of the preferred time to calve in Arkansas, but I bet you don't want to calve in the summer. That means you should look at fall calving to get your investment to start paying back as soon as possible.

I'm curious, how'd it come about that all the calves on the recips are females? Are they ET calves? Are the calves on the donors registerable stock?

Yes, I am a novice cattleman. So far, I have negotiated with my vet, who has an office one mile from the farm and my office, to help manage my thinking. For example, he is holding the semen tank and had TransOva ship some CIDRs to him, etc.

You noticed I am losing money (time) by not having the animals bred yet, and you are correct! I took delivery March 23rd. It is not so obvious to a layman. My intentions are to have fall calves by flushing five donors three times to be spead over sixty recipients and hopefully account for the failures (6 * 5 * 3 * .675 * 60). I would rather lose time income than make a major decision I will regret, especially when I am laying the foundation of a capital intensive venture. I figured the decision (1/2 year @ 4.75% APR + opportunity cost) may cost me around $20-30K in the short term, but I felt like I needed to monitor what I purchased in order to find the weaknesses and strengths of the herd. This could allow me to leverage my herd knowledge and make more in the long term. **By not buying a commercial bull and breeding immediately after I took delivery.... I may not be at the market as fast, but the volume of registered genes might be at the market faster**.

I negotiated the black Angus two year old recipients to all have female calves. The previous owner did not know I was looking at them as recipients but his main selling feature happened to be large measure cervixes (spelling?) which may be a blessing in diguise. Also, the black Angus cross calves are higher quality than their black Angus cross mommas. The five donor calves are also all female. However, I did not negotiate this as it happened by chance. The registered 2-3 year old donors I selected just happen to all have heifer calves. None of the donor's calves are ET, but four of the five donors are ET. Two donors are line bred 517 having the grandfather on each side. One donor has KPH Phase blood and all of course are 3008 daughters. Yes, the donor calves are registered.

 

[dun]

his main selling feature happened to be large measure cervixes (spelling?) which may be a blessing in diguise.

I have no idea why a large cervix would be an advantage

dun

 

[MikeC]

I have no idea why a large cervix would be an advantage

Dun, You never had a cervix sammich? :lol:

A small cervix won't fill up a piece of bread. :shock:

Some folks don't go the ribeye route.

 

[Chris H]

Herefordsire, I assume you meant the recips all had large pelvic measurements. That's very good and will help keep down on calving problems.

Get some calves on the ground next fall and I'd like to see them.

Good luck.

 

[HerefordSire]

Whoa! Got another question for you. In another thread you posted a link to a heifer that you say you own, the Hereford Association show that owner as a Pedigree member. That means you won't have EPD's to promote your animals.
You have to report birth weights, weaning weights, and yearling weights if you want EPD's from the Hereford Ass'n. You're also going to want to do ultrasounding on your yearlings to provide accurate EPD's for IMF, REA, & Fat.

I am close to sending the data in and upgrading membership.

 

[mtnman]

Herefordsire asked:
"In my lifetime I sure have heard a bunch of objections. What I found out, is most objections can be overcome one ethical way or another while still holding margins. I am not concerned with reputation objections for I am willing to pay the piper or the initiation fee. I ask for no special priviledges.

Two questions, if you don't mind:

(1) Would that be your only objection from commiting to me..Reputation?

(2) Do you think you could sell the 1/2 interest for $200K the same as another has?"

You obviously don't know how fickle the purebred insustry is. These cattle aren't bought because of what they do, they are bought because of what they might do. Once they are proven to do good or bad, none uses them anymore. 1) Yes, you have no reputation, no one will support your business with big bucks. 2) Nope, I know I can't. You can't either.

Then Hill Creek pops off with "Old genes, I can't make money off of genes that were used over 10 to 15 years or more ago. No one is going to buy bulls from me, with Vindicator as the sire, old genes. I need to use genes that are from the present, like World Class, Red Oak, Governor, Boomers, and some others; not Vindicator. "

His statement defines the attitude of many, many of the big money, big hoopla deals. They would rather risk NOT knowing anything about the genetics they perpetuate, than truly knowing. While prolapses are a bad thing, at least we know the faults of the bull.

With Hill Creeks and Herefordsires plans, we know nothing, other than the iterim numbers will look good.

mtnman

 

[Brandonm2]

his main selling feature happened to be large measure cervixes (spelling?) which may be a blessing in diguise.

I have no idea why a large cervix would be an advantage

dun

Actually I preferred those cows with the big donut sized cervical rings you can feel easily when I am guiding the AI gun through the cervix versus those with the less clearly defined rings. In my opinion, Herfs are easier to AI than Holsteins because of this and Angus are somewhere in the middle; though others may disagree. Now I don't think that was what HerefordSire was talking about, though.

 

[HerefordSire]

his main selling feature happened to be large measure cervixes (spelling?) which may be a blessing in diguise.

I have no idea why a large cervix would be an advantage

dun

I think I used an incorrect word, cervix...I think it should have been pelvis. I am not sure why I wrote cervix which has me thinking.......