Mineral question...

[TNRiver]

Don't forget that I'm feeding my mineral in conjunction with a high performance grain mix as well.

The grain I feed our herd, which is now down to about 2-3 pounds per head since we have grass coming on strong, has in simple terms, the total package for rumen health in our cattle. They are getting prebiotics and probiotics. I've posted the tag before if anyone needs the mix.

Our program is not for everyone. It's safe to say that our cattle have every last thing they need to reach their genetic potential. I've spoken with multiple well informed sources about Rumensin, and from everything I've gathered, it allows for, or helps for a more efficient rumen. Our cattle simply process more of what goes into their mouth with our setup. Every bite counts.

As for fly control, it's a non stop battle because I cannot get my neighbors on the same plan I'm on. I prefer to try and kill the flies from the inside out and then use a Vet Gun 3-4 times during the peak months to round up the program.

I've used Vitaferm Heat and I saw no noticeable difference in the amount of flies, I had to use ear tags and Vet gun as well.

When dealing with the flies, the mineral with Rabon should be in their systems starting early March, to be most effective.

I'm trying to deal with all kinds of flies, not just horn flies.

The thing with your neighbors is why I am so glad there aren't any cattle that border my herd. You are not only battling your flies, but you are battling your neighbors flies and his fly control program through exposure and resistance. For what it is worth, the product I have had the most success with is Martin's Synergized 1% Permethrin Pour On... I spray it on them with a standard handheld weed sprayer when I feed my cattle. Do not dilute or mix with anything, just spray it right out of the bottle. I have personally had tremendous success with this, but I still use other products so the flies around don't become immune to it.

 

[CattleMan1920]

Don't forget that I'm feeding my mineral in conjunction with a high performance grain mix as well.

The grain I feed our herd, which is now down to about 2-3 pounds per head since we have grass coming on strong, has in simple terms, the total package for rumen health in our cattle. They are getting prebiotics and probiotics. I've posted the tag before if anyone needs the mix.

Our program is not for everyone. It's safe to say that our cattle have every last thing they need to reach their genetic potential. I've spoken with multiple well informed sources about Rumensin, and from everything I've gathered, it allows for, or helps for a more efficient rumen. Our cattle simply process more of what goes into their mouth with our setup. Every bite counts.

As for fly control, it's a non stop battle because I cannot get my neighbors on the same plan I'm on. I prefer to try and kill the flies from the inside out and then use a Vet Gun 3-4 times during the peak months to round up the program.

I've used Vitaferm Heat and I saw no noticeable difference in the amount of flies, I had to use ear tags and Vet gun as well.

When dealing with the flies, the mineral with Rabon should be in their systems starting early March, to be most effective.

I'm trying to deal with all kinds of flies, not just horn flies.

The thing with your neighbors is why I am so glad there aren't any cattle that border my herd. You are not only battling your flies, but you are battling your neighbors flies and his fly control program through exposure and resistance. For what it is worth, the product I have had the most success with is Martin's Synergized 1% Permethrin Pour On... I spray it on them with a standard handheld weed sprayer when I feed my cattle. Do not dilute or mix with anything, just spray it right out of the bottle. I have personally had tremendous success with this, but I still use other products so the flies around don't become immune to it.

My goal is to kill the larvae in the manure piles before they ever take hold.

 

[TNRiver]

Don't forget that I'm feeding my mineral in conjunction with a high performance grain mix as well.

The grain I feed our herd, which is now down to about 2-3 pounds per head since we have grass coming on strong, has in simple terms, the total package for rumen health in our cattle. They are getting prebiotics and probiotics. I've posted the tag before if anyone needs the mix.

Our program is not for everyone. It's safe to say that our cattle have every last thing they need to reach their genetic potential. I've spoken with multiple well informed sources about Rumensin, and from everything I've gathered, it allows for, or helps for a more efficient rumen. Our cattle simply process more of what goes into their mouth with our setup. Every bite counts.

As for fly control, it's a non stop battle because I cannot get my neighbors on the same plan I'm on. I prefer to try and kill the flies from the inside out and then use a Vet Gun 3-4 times during the peak months to round up the program.

I've used Vitaferm Heat and I saw no noticeable difference in the amount of flies, I had to use ear tags and Vet gun as well.

When dealing with the flies, the mineral with Rabon should be in their systems starting early March, to be most effective.

I'm trying to deal with all kinds of flies, not just horn flies.

The thing with your neighbors is why I am so glad there aren't any cattle that border my herd. You are not only battling your flies, but you are battling your neighbors flies and his fly control program through exposure and resistance. For what it is worth, the product I have had the most success with is Martin's Synergized 1% Permethrin Pour On... I spray it on them with a standard handheld weed sprayer when I feed my cattle. Do not dilute or mix with anything, just spray it right out of the bottle. I have personally had tremendous success with this, but I still use other products so the flies around don't become immune to it.

My goal is to kill the larvae in the manure piles before they ever take hold.

I understand, but you still are competing with your neighbors flies.. I was just saying that spray is the best thing I have used to control the face flies or horn flies that make it to heads and tails of my herd. When I spray that on my cows, I don't have to spray them again for at least 5-6 weeks, rain or shine. My herd has learned that my spraying them means relief from those pesky flies and they all stand still as a statue for me. I usually spray the inside hind quarters of the milking mommas so the calves with get some through contact when nursing.

 

[Bright Raven]

Don't forget that I'm feeding my mineral in conjunction with a high performance grain mix as well.

The grain I feed our herd, which is now down to about 2-3 pounds per head since we have grass coming on strong, has in simple terms, the total package for rumen health in our cattle. They are getting prebiotics and probiotics. I've posted the tag before if anyone needs the mix.

Our program is not for everyone. It's safe to say that our cattle have every last thing they need to reach their genetic potential. I've spoken with multiple well informed sources about Rumensin, and from everything I've gathered, it allows for, or helps for a more efficient rumen. Our cattle simply process more of what goes into their mouth with our setup. Every bite counts.

As for fly control, it's a non stop battle because I cannot get my neighbors on the same plan I'm on. I prefer to try and kill the flies from the inside out and then use a Vet Gun 3-4 times during the peak months to round up the program.

I've used Vitaferm Heat and I saw no noticeable difference in the amount of flies, I had to use ear tags and Vet gun as well.

When dealing with the flies, the mineral with Rabon should be in their systems starting early March, to be most effective.

I'm trying to deal with all kinds of flies, not just horn flies.

The thing with your neighbors is why I am so glad there aren't any cattle that border my herd. You are not only battling your flies, but you are battling your neighbors flies and his fly control program through exposure and resistance. For what it is worth, the product I have had the most success with is Martin's Synergized 1% Permethrin Pour On... I spray it on them with a standard handheld weed sprayer when I feed my cattle. Do not dilute or mix with anything, just spray it right out of the bottle. I have personally had tremendous success with this, but I still use other products so the flies around don't become immune to it.

I do that too. Works great!

 

[Bright Raven]

Don't forget that I'm feeding my mineral in conjunction with a high performance grain mix as well.

The grain I feed our herd, which is now down to about 2-3 pounds per head since we have grass coming on strong, has in simple terms, the total package for rumen health in our cattle. They are getting prebiotics and probiotics. I've posted the tag before if anyone needs the mix.

Our program is not for everyone. It's safe to say that our cattle have every last thing they need to reach their genetic potential. I've spoken with multiple well informed sources about Rumensin, and from everything I've gathered, it allows for, or helps for a more efficient rumen. Our cattle simply process more of what goes into their mouth with our setup. Every bite counts.

As for fly control, it's a non stop battle because I cannot get my neighbors on the same plan I'm on. I prefer to try and kill the flies from the inside out and then use a Vet Gun 3-4 times during the peak months to round up the program.

I've used Vitaferm Heat and I saw no noticeable difference in the amount of flies, I had to use ear tags and Vet gun as well.

When dealing with the flies, the mineral with Rabon should be in their systems starting early March, to be most effective.

I'm trying to deal with all kinds of flies, not just horn flies.

The thing with your neighbors is why I am so glad there aren't any cattle that border my herd. You are not only battling your flies, but you are battling your neighbors flies and his fly control program through exposure and resistance. For what it is worth, the product I have had the most success with is Martin's Synergized 1% Permethrin Pour On... I spray it on them with a standard handheld weed sprayer when I feed my cattle. Do not dilute or mix with anything, just spray it right out of the bottle. I have personally had tremendous success with this, but I still use other products so the flies around don't become immune to it.

My goal is to kill the larvae in the manure piles before they ever take hold.

That does not work for all species of flies that annoy cattle. It only works if the life cycle involves the cow hosting a part of the life cycle (larvae in manure). For example, common house flies annoy cows and can be vectors of disease but their life cycle does not significantly involve the cow as a host. House flies use other media to lay eggs. It is effective where horn flies and face flies lay eggs in manure. But if your neighbor is not using it, the flies will incubate in the untreated manure.

I know the larvacide makers list control of house flies but personally, I think that they use so many other media that the control is limited.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Fly control is a multiple management approach. Altosid is good as an IGR for the flies that use the cow for life cycle.
Products like Ultra Sabre or Cylence are good for long term control along with
ear tags. Permethrin is virtually worthless here with our rainfall as it is gone first rain.
You can't control your neighbors management only yours. I even put up electric fence flies pay it no attention.
Along with if your in an area your can run Brahman genetics as they are more insect resistant it is a heiritable trait in all breeds.

https://www.beefmagazine.com/health/can-we-select-cattle-fly-resistance-research-says-yes

 

[True Grit Farms]

I've never had much luck killing flies from the inside out. We feed Altosid in our minerals just because it's supposed to work. I use a homemade corn oil based pour on monthly and will also spot spray using diesel fuel and permethrin insecticide. Flies cause nothing but trouble and cost you money in the cattle business.

 

[Caustic Burno]

I've never had much luck killing flies from the inside out. We feed Altosid in our minerals just because it's supposed to work. I use a homemade corn oil based pour on monthly and will also spot spray using diesel fuel and permethrin insecticide. Flies cause nothing but trouble and cost you money in the cattle business.

I have never used it but Mix 30 claims it controls flies. We don't have a distribution system here.

 

[Bright Raven]

I've never had much luck killing flies from the inside out. We feed Altosid in our minerals just because it's supposed to work. I use a homemade corn oil based pour on monthly and will also spot spray using diesel fuel and permethrin insecticide. Flies cause nothing but trouble and cost you money in the cattle business.

I tried the IGR mineral. It did not work here. I have a winter manure pile, all the flies need to do is go to that pile to lay their eggs - that manure does not get a dose of larvacide. Furthermore, my neighbor does ZERO fly treatment. I am not sure, but he probably only puts out white salt blocks. He has a much larger herd and he shares a long fence line with me. The point, using "inside out" is not going to work.

I use an external fly control. UltraBoss and the Martin's 1 % permethrin spray on.

 

[True Grit Farms]

I've never had much luck killing flies from the inside out. We feed Altosid in our minerals just because it's supposed to work. I use a homemade corn oil based pour on monthly and will also spot spray using diesel fuel and permethrin insecticide. Flies cause nothing but trouble and cost you money in the cattle business.

I tried the IGR mineral. It did not work here. I have a winter manure pile, all the flies need to do is go to that pile to lay their eggs - that manure does not get a dose of larvacide. Furthermore, my neighbor does ZERO fly treatment. I am not sure, but he probably only puts out white salt blocks. He has a much larger herd and he shares a long fence line with me. The point, using "inside out" is not going to work.

I use an external fly control. UltraBoss and the Martin's 1 % permethrin spray on.

We don't have any neighbors with cows, but I hate flies. Spray those manure piles with some Taurus or Tempo for flies. I spray my chicken litter after it's dumped for flies. UltraBoss is Permethrin based, Ultra Sabre is Lambda-cyhalothrin based and it might be worth changing up every so often. The trick is to use enough insecticide to kill them all.

 

[TNRiver]

Fly control is a multiple management approach. Altosid is good as an IGR for the flies that use the cow for life cycle.
Products like Ultra Sabre or Cylence are good for long term control along with
ear tags. Permethrin is virtually worthless here with our rainfall as it is gone first rain.
You can't control your neighbors management only yours. I even put up electric fence flies pay it no attention.
Along with if your in an area your can run Brahman genetics as they are more insect resistant it is a heiritable trait in all breeds.

https://www.beefmagazine.com/health/can-we-select-cattle-fly-resistance-research-says-yes

I have used quite an array of different insecticides, and some of the Permethrin's work and some don't. But, the Martin's 1% Synergized has worked better than anything I have used, including any other type of Permethrin. If you ever get a hankering to try to spray your cows again, give it a try.. and no I'm not a rep or anything like that, just sharing my experience.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Fly control is a multiple management approach. Altosid is good as an IGR for the flies that use the cow for life cycle.
Products like Ultra Sabre or Cylence are good for long term control along with
ear tags. Permethrin is virtually worthless here with our rainfall as it is gone first rain.
You can't control your neighbors management only yours. I even put up electric fence flies pay it no attention.
Along with if your in an area your can run Brahman genetics as they are more insect resistant it is a heiritable trait in all breeds.

https://www.beefmagazine.com/health/can-we-select-cattle-fly-resistance-research-says-yes

I have used quite an array of different insecticides, and some of the Permethrin's work and some don't. But, the Martin's 1% Synergized has worked better than anything I have used, including any other type of Permethrin. If you ever get a hankering to try to spray your cows again, give it a try.. and no I'm not a rep or anything like that, just sharing my experience.

I ordered a jug to try.

 

[TNRiver]

Fly control is a multiple management approach. Altosid is good as an IGR for the flies that use the cow for life cycle.
Products like Ultra Sabre or Cylence are good for long term control along with
ear tags. Permethrin is virtually worthless here with our rainfall as it is gone first rain.
You can't control your neighbors management only yours. I even put up electric fence flies pay it no attention.
Along with if your in an area your can run Brahman genetics as they are more insect resistant it is a heiritable trait in all breeds.

https://www.beefmagazine.com/health/can-we-select-cattle-fly-resistance-research-says-yes

I have used quite an array of different insecticides, and some of the Permethrin's work and some don't. But, the Martin's 1% Synergized has worked better than anything I have used, including any other type of Permethrin. If you ever get a hankering to try to spray your cows again, give it a try.. and no I'm not a rep or anything like that, just sharing my experience.

I ordered a jug to try.

I think you'll be satisfied. Let me know what ya think when you use it

 

[Caustic Burno]

I have used quite an array of different insecticides, and some of the Permethrin's work and some don't. But, the Martin's 1% Synergized has worked better than anything I have used, including any other type of Permethrin. If you ever get a hankering to try to spray your cows again, give it a try.. and no I'm not a rep or anything like that, just sharing my experience.

I ordered a jug to try.

I think you'll be satisfied. Let me know what ya think when you use it

Did the cows today, test in progress.

 

[Hippie Rancher]

Our program is not for everyone. It's safe to say that our cattle have every last thing they need to reach their genetic potential.

I have been wondering for a few years about the genetic potential of animals to be resistant to parasites, external and internal. By using all these products especially fed larveacides that affect manure breakdown/mineral cycling, are we "selecting" for animals that require all this chemical maintenance? It seems like it has become an expensive vicious circle.

Caustic mentioned the natural resistance Brahma cattle have, could similar traits be developed or selected for in other breeds?

edit to add: I realize flies out west where it is so dry most of the time are not anything like the problems some of you all face. But I think the question is still valid.

 

[CattleMan1920]

Our program is not for everyone. It's safe to say that our cattle have every last thing they need to reach their genetic potential.

I have been wondering for a few years about the genetic potential of animals to be resistant to parasites, external and internal. By using all these products especially fed larveacides that affect manure breakdown/mineral cycling, are we "selecting" for animals that require all this chemical maintenance? It seems like it has become an expensive vicious circle.

Caustic mentioned the natural resistance Brahma cattle have, could similar traits be developed or selected for in other breeds?

edit to add: I realize flies out west where it is so dry most of the time are not anything like the problems some of you all face. But I think the question is still valid.

Your reasoning is spot on, but most people in the business aren't raising wild animals, cattle are domesticated now and they require maintenance just like any domesticated creature.

This reminds me of the discussion that rages on about vaccines. Lots of people are sick and could die from measles right now. Parents may not like what I say, but if your kid or elderly loved one has a bad case of the measles, you probably aren't so much thinking about the toughness of the person that has the measles as much as you are saying, why the h.ll didn't I take steps to prevent it from happening in the first place.

I haven't seen too many top athletes that perform at their peak on a poor nutrition plan, cattle aren't any different in my book.

Again, what you said makes sense however. I understand what you are saying.

 

[Hippie Rancher]

I see nutrition and vaccinations (immune activation) as quite distinct from applying insecticides as a preventative treatment (though again, I have some luxury in this area due to the natural environment) mainly because of the potential adverse effects possible with some of the chemicals involved. But also just that whole constant need to spend more and more money on a problem that never gets solved. I am lucky that I can ask "are flies really a problem?" Often for me they are not.

In some cases we are wanting to mimic wild animals and nature with livestock - especially in rangeland situations where we might have goals beyond producing beef, such as improving ground cover and ecological function. (you might be noticing my username along about now LOL)

 

[sstterry]

Given your username Hippie, I would ask what is your opinion of Genetic Modification? I understand what you are saying about improving ground cover and ecological function, but as you and Causic mentioned Brahman's have natural insect resistance. Much the same, the Continental Breeds are much more resistant to Pinkey than the British breeds. This is only an accelerated process of what normally would take generations for natural selection to accomplish. Cattle are now domesticated, I don't see that ever changing short of the Apocolypse. What if we could have a cow that is insect and disease resitant without the necessity of vaccines or chemicals?

 

[TNRiver]

I ordered a jug to try.

I think you'll be satisfied. Let me know what ya think when you use it

Did the cows today, test in progress.

Cool. Keep me posted...

 

[Farmgirl]

Caustic,

Anxiously awaiting your results, too. Martin's products are made not to far from here, Houston or Pasadena.

Farmgirl